Is there ever a time to lie?

[Brother Bob]

Quoting Brother Bob,
You are completely wrong about me thinking I do not sin. I just do not commit such sins that are unto death such as adultery, lying, killing etc.Unquote

Where are you getting that these are sins unto death?

1Cr 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Cr 6:10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Rom 6:23For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.



BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

I too, try my best to live as Jesus would have me to live, I'm just glad He's there when I slip. As for the first part about God taking part in His sons death, I think the Scripture says it pretty plain. He appointed it to happen.
Act 4:28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.
It doesn't get much plainer. They were gathered in the city to do what God had predestined to happen. Off topic, on the subject of God having a part in Jesus death, listen to John Pipers' "The suicide of satan."

http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource...cide_of_Satan_and_the_Salvation_of_the_World/

The Hand and Plan of God

In Acts 4:27-28, we have the clearest, most explicit statement about God’s hand and plan behind the horrific crucifixion of his Son. “Truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand (cheir) and your plan (boule) had predestined to take place.” Those are the two words I am using: the hand of God and the plan of God.

It is a strange way of speaking—to say that God’s hand and plan have predestined something to happen. One does not ordinarily think of God’s “hand” predestining. How does a hand predestine? Here’s what I think it means: The hand of God ordinarily stands for God’s exerted power—not power in the abstract, but earthly, effective exertions of power. The point of combining it with “plan” is to say that it is not just a theoretical plan; it is plan that will be executed by God’s own hand.

This explains Isaiah 53:10: “It was the will of the Lord to bruise him; he has put him to grief.” Or more literally, with the King James Version, “It pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief.” The Lord bruised him. Behind Herod and Pilate and the Gentiles and the people of Israel was Jesus’ own Father who loved him with an infinite love.

The Gospel: God At Work in Death
Why should this matter to you? It should matter because if God were not the main Actor in the death of Christ, then the death of Christ could not save us from our sins and we would perish in hell forever. The reason the death of Christ is the heart of gospel—the heart of the good news—is God was doing it. Romans 5:8: “God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” If you break God’s activity from the death of Jesus, you lose the gospel. This was God’s doing. It is the highest and deepest point of his love for sinners. His love for you.

Romans 8:3: “Sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh.” God condemned sin in Jesus’ flesh with our condemnation. So we are free.

Galatians 3:13: “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us.” God cursed Jesus with the curse that belonged on us. So we are free.

2 Corinthians 5:21: “For our sake [God] made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” God imputed our sin to him, and now we go free in God’s righteousness.

Isaiah 53:5: “He was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities.” God wounded him. God crushed him. For you and me. And we go free.

So are you saying that God killed His own Son???

Mar 9:31For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

BBob.

 

[JerryL]

So are you saying that God killed His own Son???

Mar 9:31For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

BBob.

It was part of His plan and He appointed it to happen. Only God's own Son could come to our rescue, anyone else couldn't do it. So yes God annointed and appointed His Son to die. It's in the Book, regardless of my emotions or opinion of it.

Piper puts the climax of it all into words that resound to the utmost for me.
"The Cross of Christ: The Work and Love of God
The reason why this series of messages matters is this. If you embrace the biblical truth (and I pray you will) that God ordains spectacular sins for the global glory of his Son, without in anyway becoming unholy or unrighteous or sinful in that act, then you will not shrink back from the cross of Christ as a work of God. You will not be among the number of those who call the most loving act that ever was “divine child abuse.” You will come to the cross and fall on your face. And you will say: This is no mere human conspiracy. This is the work of God and the love of God. You will it receive as his highest gift. And you will be saved. And Christ will be glorified. And I will not have preached in vain."

It makes me appreciate God's work through His Son more than ever.

 

[Brother Bob]

It was part of His plan and He appointed it to happen. Only God's own Son could come to our rescue, anyone else couldn't do it. So yes God annointed and appointed His Son to die. It's in the Book, regardless of my emotions or opinion of it.

Piper puts the climax of it all into words that resound to the utmost for me.
"The Cross of Christ: The Work and Love of God
The reason why this series of messages matters is this. If you embrace the biblical truth (and I pray you will) that God ordains spectacular sins for the global glory of his Son, without in anyway becoming unholy or unrighteous or sinful in that act, then you will not shrink back from the cross of Christ as a work of God. You will not be among the number of those who call the most loving act that ever was “divine child abuse.” You will come to the cross and fall on your face. And you will say: This is no mere human conspiracy. This is the work of God and the love of God. You will it receive as his highest gift. And you will be saved. And Christ will be glorified. And I will not have preached in vain."

It makes me appreciate God's work through His Son more than ever.

I find where God gave His Son, I do not find where He killed Him.

Jhn 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Act 3:14But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

Act 3:15And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses

How could they have killed Him, if God killed Him??

Did Adam have a choice to eat of the forbidden tree?

BBob,

 

[JerryL]

I find where God gave His Son, I do not find where He killed Him.

Jhn 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Act 3:14But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

Act 3:15And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses

BBob,

Those 3 verses fall right into place with it. He gave His Son through His annointed and appointed plan as it said in Acts. The last two Acts verses you quote only tell of Paul telling them how they reacted to Jesus. They denied Him and in that, they desired a murderer to be released instead of Him. Those verses don't do away with the fact that God planned it, they were instruments in His plan.

 

[Brother Bob]

Those 3 verses fall right into place with it. He gave His Son through His annointed and appointed plan as it said in Acts. The last two Acts verses you quote only tell of Paul telling them how they reacted to Jesus. They denied Him and in that, they desired a murderer to be released instead of Him. Those verses don't do away with the fact that God planned it, they were instruments in His plan.

It says He gave His Son, not He killed Him.

Mar 15:34And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

God had to turn from His Son for men to kill Him.


Did God plan for Adam to fall??

BBob,

 

[Plain Old Bill]

I think it is okay to lie still.:laugh:

 

[Brother Bob]

I think it is okay to lie still.:laugh:

You are not alone from what I read on here........:wavey:

 

[JerryL]

It says He gave His Son, not He killed Him.

Mar 15:34And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

God had to turn from His Son for men to kill Him.


Did God plan for Adam to fall??

BBob,

So you tore the 4th Chapter of Acts out of your Bible huh? And relying on your emotions to say, No.........God wouldn't appoint His Son to die for us."

 

[Alcott]

I do not lie and have stated it several times on here

I don't believe you. "Let God be true, and every man a liar."

Have you not ever learned to keep your mouth shut???

Yes. It's a matter of sealing the lips together.

Jesus said all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire, was Jesus lying???

Is Rahab there? The Egyptian midwives? Peter?

Either you can lie and it does not matter, and Jesus was lying, or you cannot lie. One or the other!!!

Then Rahab, the Egyptian midwives, and Peter are in the Lake of Fire. If not, Jesus was lying-- at least according to you.

Hard to believe that only 2 people voted you can not lie, and I am one of them.

Is it absolutely truthfully "hard to believe?" If it isn't, you just lied.

I wonder how many "Pastors" on here voted it was ok to lie??

None. "it was ok to lie" was not an option.

ed. by poster because the question asked as an example to impeach the claims of another poster have caused a greater dilemma than then subject itself.

 

[JerryL]

No, I don't think it's ok to lie. This conversation about God's plan won't allow me to think it's ok when I know what God did to bring me back to Him. But, I am glad to know if I slip, God laid out a plan to have me redeemed anyway. Through His son, not my righteousness.

 

[Brother Bob]

So you tore the 4th Chapter of Acts out of your Bible huh? And relying on your emotions to say, No.........God wouldn't appoint His Son to die for us."

Acts: 4
10: Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

I said all along that God let it happen.

Again, Did Adam have a choice to eat of the tree?? Also, was there death in the world before Adam eat??

BBob,

 

[Joe]

None. "it was ok to lie" was not an option.
By the way, does the photo of "I Am Blessed 17" show she's fat?

What! No...She's a beauty :love2:!

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't believe you. "Let God be true, and every man a liar."
As long as God knows, who cares what you think.


Yes. It's a matter of sealing the lips together.
I am beginning to think you should try it sometimes.


Is Rahab there? The Egyptian midwives? Peter?
Which scripture don't you believe? It was before the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.

Is the scripture lying when it says ALL liars will have their part in the Lake???


Then Rahab, the Egyptian midwives, and Peter are in the Lake of Fire. If not, Jesus was lying-- at least according to you.

No, they could have repented, Israel even backslid but there is no fall now after the day of Penecost.


Is it absolutely truthfully "hard to believe?" If it isn't, you just lied.

Its truthful that only 2 voted never to lie when I last looked at it.


None. "it was ok to lie" was not an option.
By the way, does the photo of "I Am Blessed 17" show she's fat?

By who's standards. I said there were times you should keep your mouth shut. Shame on you for calling her fat! That was not a very Christian thing to do. Why bring her into this discussion? You owe her an apology.

BBob,

 

[JerryL]

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

We are not talking about Adam, we are talking about God's plan in the death of His Son. Just take 40 minutes to listen to the sermon I directed you to and then tell me what you think.

 

[Brother Bob]

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

We are not talking about Adam, we are talking about God's plan in the death of His Son. Just take 40 minutes to listen to the sermon I directed you to and then tell me what you think.

Who is Thou?

12: Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Jhn 10:17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.


It it had not of been at the hands of men then He would not of suffered for our sins. He took a fleshly body, liken unto ours for the suffering of death. God didn't kill Him, He laid down His life at the hands of evil men.

If God wanted to kill Him, then He wanted to kill himself.

I never heard anyone say "God killed Jesus"!

I know it was the plan of God, but when was the plan made? The Plan of God was that His Son would die for our sins because of the original sin of Adam brought death on us all. There was no death until Adam sinned. Did Adam have a choice??

BBob,

 

[Sopranette]

Alcott--Don't mess with my friends.

Sopranette

 

[Alcott]

As long as God knows, who cares what you think.

You, for one, or you would not be resopnding.

Is Rahab there? The Egyptian midwives? Peter?Which scripture don't you believe? It was before the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.

Then you are saying that absolutely any Christian lies after becoming indwelt, that person has lost his/her salvation with absolutely not possibility of regaining it. So that's the 'sin unto death,' huh?

Is the scripture lying when it says ALL liars will have their part in the Lake???

According to you it is. Neither the scripture, nor your own posts before the one I am quoting, made any exception that one could lie "before the indwelling of the Holy Ghost." Too bad we're not fortunte enough to have lived in the era before the indwelling, ain't it?

Then Rahab, the Egyptian midwives, and Peter are in the Lake of Fire. If not, Jesus was lying-- at least according to you.No, they could have repented, Israel even backslid but there is no fall now after the day of Penecost.

Again.. you ask if scripture is lying when it say ALL liars have their part in the Lake of Fire. No exceptions. Do YOU believe that or not?

Is it absolutely truthfully "hard to believe?" If it isn't, you just lied.Its truthful that only 2 voted never to lie when I last looked at it.THAT AIN'T WHAT I ASKED YOU! Is it-- or is it not-- hard to belive that only 2 voted it is never ok to lie?

ed. by poster because a certain question meant only as an example has caused a greater dilemma than the subject itself.

 

[Joe]

I am reporting your post. Shame on you for not apologizing!

There is a problem with people making rude comments about other's avatars.
There ought to be a rule against negative comments upon people's avatars, especially when it is a self-picture. Rediculous.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Calling a poster "fat" (or other attack inferred on their personal appearance, gender, mental state, age, et al) is uncalled for.

It might be cutely worded or not a "direct" attack . . but it IS an attack.

And will not be tolerated.