Is there Salvation outside of Christ?

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by blackbird:
In John 14:6 Jesus tells us, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me."

To answer the question---Is there salvation outside of the Lord Jesus Christ?

NO! There is no salvation outside of the Lord Jesus Christ!!

Completely agreed, Blackbird.

Now let's suppose that there is a heathen person who knows not the name of Christ, but is drawn to believe there is a righteous God through natural revelation (Psalm 19). However, he is depraved and cannot come to Christ by himself (Rom. 1). The Holy Spirit may put a longing to know the truth in his heart. "Seek and ye shall find" the Spirit says (Matt. 7:7).

There two possibilities here. Either way there must be a human proclaimer of the Gospel for the seeking soul to be saved. "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" (Rom. 10:14-15).

Here are the two possibilities from Scripture. (1) God will send someone to him like He sent Peter to Cornelius (Acts 10), or (2) God will lead the seeking soul to where he can hear the Gospel, as God did the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8).

I know illustrations from the mission field of both cases. In the first case, the story comes from Cowboy Boots in Darkest Africa, by Evangelist Bill Rice, the younger half brother of John R., and founder of the Bill Rice Ranch, the first ministry to deaf people in history.

Bill Rice took a trip to Africa way back in the early '50's. At one point he traveled with a missionary and a tribal translator to be the first ever to give the Gospel to a tribe of pygmies in the jungle. The whole story is fascinating, but the relevant part is that after hearing the Gospel, an old pygmy man stood up and said, "I thought it must be something like that. When I was young, I used to climb a tree, look at the stars and say, 'God, if you are up there, show yourself to me.'" Many of the pygmies trusted Christ as Savior.

The second illustration is from Japanese history. In the early 1850's, two Japanese seamen were rescued from a shipwreck and taken to Singapore. This meant they could never return to Japan on pain of death, it being before Commodore Perry's "Black Ships" sailed into Yokohama harbor. In Singapore, the two met Karl Gutzlaff, a German missionary to the Chinese. There they met Christ and helped Gutzlaff translate Matthew into Japanese, which he then had printed in Singapore. This was the first translation of any book of the Bible into Japanese, and there are only seven original copies left. I recently was privileged to be given a facsimile of one of the copies. Fascinating.

We want so badly for there not to be a Hell, and for God to be so nice and kind that it is possible to be saved without Christ. I know this exact feeling, and struggled with it earlier in my ministry. However, divine revelation says that there is a Hell, and there is no way to Heaven but through Jesus Christ. This is why there is a Great Commission and why I am a missionary. If people could be saved without Christ, there would be no need for the Great Commission, and I would be a fool to offer my entire life upon the altar of God's service to win the Japanese to Christ.

 

[Boanerges]

Originally posted by Marcia:
I do not think that since the incarnation of Christ, that belief in God without Christ can save. General revelation does not save.

I am amazed at how popular inclusivism is here on the BB.

Before Jesus came, men like Abraham were saved by faith. After Jesus, the only way one can be saved, is by faith through Him. This is evidenced by His discussion with Nicodemus, a Jewish pharisee. Compare these verses:

John 3
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Matthew 5
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

John 6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

For those in the church, who believe that the Jews, or any other group has a special arrangement with God, I would advise you to read what the scriptures plainly say. God is not a respecter of persons.

 

[cojosh]

Amen, John-o-Japan

God has a plan for us. If he didn't he would just take us out of here.

For someone to be saved there has to be:

1. Presentation of Truth (This is where a Christian co-labors with God's Word to evangelize the lost)

2. Acceptance of that Truth (The sinner has to least agree with what they have heard before that seed will even benefit them)

3. Calling to Salvation (Holy Spirit's job, in that He divinely invites a sinner to receive God's gift of salvation)

4. Receiving or Answering the Call to Salvation (This is where the sinner submits to God and calls upon the name of the Lord(Christ) to be saved.

5. Rebirth (This is the miracle of conversion. One that was lost and undone without God has been born of the spirit and covered by the atoneing blood of Christ, therefore that person becomes a new creature, a child of light, a child of God the Father.


We Christians have a small role in God's plan, but it is a vital one. Salvation is of the Lord. God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit have their individual roles that are uniquely different but cannot be separated. It is up to the sinner to accept and receive.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Inclusivists like C.S. Lewis would answer the OP question with NO.

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."

"How shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of him they have not hear? and how shall they hear without a preacher? and how shall the preach except they be sent?

As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!."

"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, in thee shall all nations be blessed."

"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them."

Thus we see that both then, and now, men are saved by hearing the gospel of Christ and believing it. The difference between then and now is that they believed the promise of a coming Christ and we believe the promise of Christ having come in the person of Jesus of Nazareth.

And whereas there were present on the day of Pentecost men from every nation under heaven who heard the news of Christ's advent in Jesus, and that there has been near 2000 years of the preaching of Jesus of Nazareth as the Christ of God since that day, will anyone argue that God still has some sequestered saints out there somewhere who are waiting to hear that there long awaited Messiah has come?

Balderdash!

Mark Osgatharp

 

[IfbReformer]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:18).

Seems pretty cut-and-dried that salvation outside of Christ (as taught by C.S. Lewis, J.I. Packer, Philip Yancey, Tony Campolo, Stott, Clark Pinnock, and Billy Graham) is UNBIBLICAL.

Dr. Bob,

I am not a C.S. Lewis expert and don't know everything he wrote so I don't know whether he was saved or not.

I can say this, not everyone who professes belief is really saved, as we would agree - there are false professors.

But I can also say, based on the authority of the word of God, that whoever says Christ(and means it in their heart, not in a momment of fear or persecution) that Jesus is not the only way is not only preaching a false Gospel, but they themselves have never believed the true Gospel and our on their way to hell.

This is not a "gray area" or debatable area among Christians - it is the cornerstone of our faith.

John 14:6(NIV)
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus said he was "THE way" - not one of many ways
Jesus said he was "THE truth" - not one of many truths
Jesus said he was "THE life" - not one of many ways of life


Jesus said "NO man" - not some men comes to father but by him.

Dr. Bob you have correctly pointed out that according to John 3:18 those who are condemned are condemned for not believing on name of the only begotten Son of God.

What Peter said more than 2000 years ago to the people of Jerusalem is still true today:

Acts 4:12
"12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

Can God use even false teachers to spread his Gospel - of course he can. God can use even the flawed and false Gospel of some of these men to show others the true Gospel - but this does not make these false teachers are right or that they are necessarily saved.

IFBReformer

 

[DavidsonBap]

Billy Graham is a good guy.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
Seems pretty cut-and-dried that salvation outside of Christ (as taught by C.S. Lewis, J.I. Packer, Philip Yancey, Tony Campolo, Stott, Clark Pinnock, and Billy Graham) is UNBIBLICAL.

This is slander. None of the above teach that there is salvation outside of Christ. They do consider it a possiblity that salvation through the grace of Christ may be possible outside of Christianity. You are welcome to disagree with that.

 

[All about Grace]

Here is a simple question for all to answer: is there evidence in the history of the world that some people were "saved" without ever hearing the name of Jesus?

 

[Brother Ian]

There is no other Name given among men whereby we must be saved.

Jesus is the only way.

 

[All about Grace]

Originally posted by Brother Ian:
There is no other Name given among men whereby we must be saved.

Jesus is the only way.

Agreed. Does not answer the previous question ... is there historical evidence that people were "saved" without ever hearing the name of Jesus?

 

[Helen]

If you mean the NAME J E S U S, then there were lots of people, for the name gets translated into different languages! There were probably a number of Jews who only knew of Him as Y'shua!

EVERY saved person in the OT (and I can only assume these are representative and not the only ones in all of OT history) who was saved never heard the 'name' "Jesus". But they ALL knew that salvation is of God and only of God and that is what the name Jesus means. And Jesus is God.

Immanuel -- God with us.

How much clearer could God have made it? Of course there is no salvation otherwise, but the 'name' Jesus was not even part of the Hebrew language!

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
None of the above teach that there is salvation outside of Christ. They do consider it a possiblity that salvation through the grace of Christ may be possible outside of Christianity. You are welcome to disagree with that.

Say what? What kind of orwellian newspeak is that? Salvation outside of Christianity (the faith that teaches Jn 3:16-18)? That is amazing.

Why do missions? The heathen don't NEED the Gospel; they can get grace via osmosis IN SPITE of God saying they are condemned unless they believe in JESUS.

Not God. Not some higher power. Not the Creator. JESUS.

Folks, those are not MY words. Read John 3:16-18 again and SEE if God gives His saving grace to people outside of Christian faith???

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Marcia:
I agree, Dr. Bob, that there is no salvation outside of Christ.

I likewise agree, as do, I think. most folks here. However, many think that there is no salvation outside of their view of Christ.

 

[Helen]

Why do missions? The heathen don't NEED the Gospel; they can get grace via osmosis IN SPITE of God saying they are condemned unless they believe in JESUS.

I knew the stories of the Bible and yet was tangled in my mother's New Age garbage along with it for awhile in my twenties. I, an American, educated, needed missions. I needed someone to help me separate the nonsense from the truth. I am grateful to Dave Hunt, personally, for that.

Of course they need missions! It is very hard to live a decent life when the truth is tangled up in garbage. They have a little truth, but need the full truth and to have the garbage dumped.

Not God. Not some higher power. Not the Creator. JESUS.

In my book, the Bible, Jesus IS God and the Creator!

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by Karen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:18).

Seems pretty cut-and-dried that salvation outside of Christ (as taught by C.S. Lewis, J.I. Packer, Philip Yancey, Tony Campolo, Stott, Clark Pinnock, and Billy Graham) is UNBIBLICAL.

Please read this quote from J.I. Packer from the October 2005 issue of Christianity Today.
Where are you getting your idea about J.I. Packer? Not from his words.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/010/29.88.html

I don't have time right now to look up some of the others.

Karen </font>[/QUOTE]Dr. Bob,
I hope you will have time soon to look at the above link.
You have lumped a lot of people together. J.I. Packer, for one, quite inaccurately.

Karen

 

[Dr. Bob]

These men all speak of salvation for people who have never heard the name of Jesus or His blood shed for sin.

They might say on one hand salvation is only through Christ, but when they say "it is possible" to be saved outside of Christ, they are falling into error.

Here Packer falls into the same error as Lewis:

"We can safely say (i) if any good pagan reached the point of throwing himself on His Maker's mercy for pardon, it was grace that brought him there; (ii) God will surely save anyone he brings thus far; (iii) anyone thus saved would learn in the next world that he was saved through Christ" (God’s Words, p. 210).

This is identical to the heretical teaching of C.S. Lewis when he states

some pagans may "belong to Christ without knowing it" (Mere Christianity, pp. 176-177)

I don't lightly classify these "big name" men without support of their own writing to show how awful the error. We need more discernment among Baptists today. There is a lot of really bad doctrine floating around!!

 

[Karen]

Thanks for your comments. Please read carefully my link. J.I. Packer says that the scenario you list is theoretical, that such a pagan DOES NOT EXIST and that such an idea fails Biblically.

Karen

 

[Dr. Bob]

I quoted word-for-word Lewis and Packer (and could with Campolo or Graham or Pinnock.

Theology is ABOUT 'theoretical', seeking to understand the revelation of God and mind of God.

One might conclude "such a pagan does not exist" but if it IS "theoretically possible", then such a pagan MAY someday exist.

My contention is that this is error. There is NO SALVATION outside of Christ.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Marcia:
I agree, Dr. Bob, that there is no salvation outside of Christ.

I likewise agree, as do, I think. most folks here. However, many think that there is no salvation outside of their view of Christ. </font>[/QUOTE]There is no salvation outside of the biblical view of Christ...

In as much as theology reveals the person of Jesus Christ... correct theology is a requirement for genuine conversion.