Is this a contradiction?

[HankD]

Thank you to all who responded positively to my outburst of passion.

As you may have noticed I don't post here nearly as much as I have in the past. To me it's as if an ill wind has been blowing. And that is not aimed at any one individual in particular but the number of posts and their content should speak for themselves.

Also I realize that I am (or at least have been) part of the problem.

HankD

 

[Trotter]

To me it's as if an ill wind has been blowing.

I know what you mean, Hank. I can't quite put my finger on it...it's like a dark undercurrent.

 

[mioque]

Terry
"Just because many psuedo-fundamentalist reject it does not mean it does not exist."
"
The American scholars who wrote the Fundamentals would have strongly disagreed with you , ofcourse they also were Old Earth Creationists, so maybe their opinion isn't relevant any longer when it comes to Fundamentalism.

"The KJV is the God-approved Bible for the English-speaking people, period! "
"
I just have to ask...
Native speakers only or must you also join the club if you learn English later in life? And if you do join later, must you then give up the Bible in your native language?

 

[David J]

Yes we do have it, it is called the KJV! Just because many psuedo-fundamentalist reject it does not mean it does not exist. The KJV is the God-approved Bible for the English-speaking people, period!

Terry you keep making this claim about God approved but you have yet to provide the evidence to back up this claim.

Where is the scripture that says the KJV is God approved and which KJV? Please list it, I did not see it when I studied the KJV.

Where is the scripture that says the KJV is the God approved bible for the English speaking people and where is the scripture that says only the "KJV"?

Stop putting words in the Most High's mouth. If you can not back up this claim then stop telling stories about the Most High.

Terry please just answer my simply questions or stop making cliams that you can not back up with scripture.

KJVOism is not God approved. KJVOism foundation rest upon lies and distortions. God does not use lies, distortions, and arrogance to spread His work. Sorry but KJVOism fails the test found in the bible that tells us what is and is not of God. Yes, I know that's a little hard but it's the truth

Thank you.

 

[robycop3]

The same one-and-only God who gave us His word which is now called Scripture also gave us our languages and caused/allowed all changes in them. Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic simply cannot be translated into English with 100% transfer of thought and 100% clarity. This is NOT lost on God, who made it all. Now, I don't know why God does some things as He does, but lemme say this: the originals were inerrant in the languages in which they were written, while the various translatious in various languages are inerrant as far as God is concerned, since it's quite clear that most of the world depends upon translations. Does anyone believe God didn't do this by design and plan?

Another thing...we don't know TO WHAT POWER the copies of copies of copies of extant mss has been extended. It could be the 20th copy or the 200th.

WHATEVER IT IS, IT'S BY GOD'S DESIGN.

 

[AVL1984]

The KJV Onlyists (especially the extremists) mantra:

The KJV...Man written and tested....God Approved!

Sorry, couldn't resist! Now I just wonder if they could back it up!

 

[robycop3]

They can't...They won't.

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
Yes we do have it, it is called the KJV! Just because many psuedo-fundamentalist reject it does not mean it does not exist. The KJV is the God-approved Bible for the English-speaking people, period!

Terry you keep making this claim about God approved but you have yet to provide the evidence to back up this claim.

--------------------------------------------------


Just curious, but what "EVIDENCE" did the prophets and apostles have?


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
The same one-and-only God who gave us His word which is now called Scripture also gave us our languages and caused/allowed all changes in them. Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic simply cannot be translated into English with 100% transfer of thought and 100% clarity. This is NOT lost on God, who made it all. Now, I don't know why God does some things as He does, but lemme say this: the originals were inerrant in the languages in which they were written, while the various translatious in various languages are inerrant as far as God is concerned, since it's quite clear that most of the world depends upon translations. Does anyone believe God didn't do this by design and plan?

--------------------------------------------------


If God can create everything out of nothing, and can sustain it all, and can resurrect our dead bodies, God can also preserve and provide us an ACCURATE translation of HIS WORDS in ANY language. He has evidenced that HE has done ALL OF THESE THINGS.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
Another thing...we don't know TO WHAT POWER the copies of copies of copies of extant mss has been extended. It could be the 20th copy or the 200th.

WHATEVER IT IS, IT'S BY GOD'S DESIGN.
--------------------------------------------------


Yes, but it would be wise to remember what God has said:

Romans 9

16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22. What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23. And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24. Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by michelle:
--------------------------------------------------
Yes we do have it, it is called the KJV! Just because many psuedo-fundamentalist reject it does not mean it does not exist. The KJV is the God-approved Bible for the English-speaking people, period!

Terry you keep making this claim about God approved but you have yet to provide the evidence to back up this claim.

--------------------------------------------------


Just curious, but what "EVIDENCE" did the prophets and apostles have?


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

So, you are putting yourself in the same position as a prophet. A prophet was NEVER wrong. We do not have prophets today.

The evidence the prophets had was the fact that they were never wrong and eventually everything they presented came true, whether it was the birth of the Messiah or the fall of israel, their predictions always came true. They were given inspiration by God because that inspiration became part of the canon.

This is the point we have been making to you all along. If you have later day revelation then it should be written in a scripture and passed around because it came from God. The problem with that? There ain't no latter day inspiration, so your inspiration and that of Joseph Smith's goes by the wayside.

Comparison of what you say and the evidence of the prophets is not even a legimate statement.

 

[russell55]

Michelle,

What is this scripture (from Romans 9) saying in context?

On what basis are you applying it to any issue brought up in this thread?

 

[Phillip]

Besides, the prophets did not have the Bible, we do!

 

[russell55]

Just curious, but what "EVIDENCE" did the prophets and apostles have?

They spoke (and wrote) as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

You and I aren't prophets.

 

[russell55]

God can also preserve and provide us an ACCURATE translation of HIS WORDS in ANY language.

And that's what he did. He gave us accurate translations. But they are just that--translations.

He didn't gather together a new set of prophets in each language group and reinspire scripture. If he did, he would have told us. In writing.

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
So, you are putting yourself in the same position as a prophet. A prophet was NEVER wrong. We do not have prophets today.
--------------------------------------------------


No, not as a prophet, but as a believer. How did they know they had the words of God, prior to God speaking through them? What evidence did they have or need?


--------------------------------------------------
The evidence the prophets had was the fact that they were never wrong and eventually everything they presented came true, whether it was the birth of the Messiah or the fall of israel, their predictions always came true. They were given inspiration by God because that inspiration became part of the canon.
--------------------------------------------------


Well, I guess I should have gone a little further, and said "and the people of those days". It could even continue further, until this modern day. But my point is, what EVIDENCE has any believer in the past needed? How did they know? I think you answered it in part. How did they know that they had God's words 100%? And why would it be different for us today?


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
And that's what he did. He gave us accurate translations. But they are just that--translations.

---------------------------------------------------


He did indeed. However much of what you are considering accurate, is evidenced it is not accurate. You may only consider the words of truth only a translation. I however, Know they are the words of God, to which are the truth. There is no room for inaccuracy pertaining to the words of God, to which are the words of truth, in ANY language.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[AVL1984]

Michelle, you keep making assertions that MV's are incorrect, but, you have yet to prove that they are incorrect. You keep talking of the words of truth, and these are found not only in the KJV, but in the NIV, the NASB, the NKJV, the Bishops Bible, The Tyndale Bible, the RSV, ESV and ASV. You have yet to show one iota of proof that these translations are not the Word of God. All you have continued to do is spout the "party line" of the extreme sect of the KJVo's. You have yet to prove that any are inaccurate. The KJV is not as pure as you state, and this has been shown time and time again by not only myself, but Dr. Bob, C4K, and others on these forums. Willful blindness is ludicrous and not faith, but rather stupidity on the part of the person who stays that way.

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by michelle:
--------------------------------------------------
And that's what he did. He gave us accurate translations. But they are just that--translations.

---------------------------------------------------


He did indeed. However much of what you are considering accurate, is evidenced it is not accurate. You may only consider the words of truth only a translation. I however, Know they are the words of God, to which are the truth. There is no room for inaccuracy pertaining to the words of God, to which are the words of truth, in ANY language.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

Then why were 400 plus major word/phrase changes (not typos or spelling) made to the KJV between 1611 and 1769? Obviously between those times we did not have an accurate version?

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by michelle:


He did indeed. However much of what you are considering accurate, is evidenced it is not accurate. You may only consider the words of truth only a translation. I however, Know they are the words of God, to which are the truth.

That's kind of like the man who knows the world is flat. He just knows but no proof and can't explain it to anyone else. You do know there is a flat earth society?

Do you have an ignorant faith or a faith that can be shared with others? The Bible gives us a rich faith that can be shared with others and communicated intelligently so others can understand. If people could not understand then how would they know what to believe through His word?

Step up to the plate and give us proof not just "I know." I contend that you just think you know but really don't know how ignorant you really are. By faith explain to us your faith.

Do you think Dr. Bob is full of hot air when he states where he once was?