Is This an "Invitation to Salvation?"

[EdSutton]

However, "faith" is not required to get saved, stay saved, prove you're saved, or anything else.

Not 'required' to 'get' saved? Sure about that??

50 Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.” (Lk. 7:50 - NKJV))

42And Jesus said to him, `Receive thy sight; thy faith hath saved thee;' (Lk. 1`8:45 - YLT)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, (Eph. 2:8 - NKJV)

Might wanna' reword that.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Ahh, too bad. Grilling steak and sword fish tonight. However, nothing can top the Friday night banquet. Agree?

It was a blessing to meet you at the Grace Conference.


Lou

Yes, I really did enjoy that, and much enjoyed meeting you as well. But more than about anything, I really, really, really enjoyed getting out of those 'Bib overalls'! :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

[npetreley]

Faith is works.

I don't know what "faith" you have, but it isn't Christianity. You belong on some new age weird wiggy mojo board, not on Baptist Board.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness

[...]

16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

 

[Amy.G]

I don't know what "faith" you have, but it isn't Christianity. You belong on some new age weird wiggy mojo board, not on Baptist Board.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Allan]

I don't know what "faith" you have, but it isn't Christianity. You belong on some new age weird wiggy mojo board, not on Baptist Board.

:laugh: :laugh: You and I might disagree on some things (ok, many things) but you and I BOTH agree here :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Allan]

Faith is works.

Kinda hard to be true when scripture bluntly declares it to be a lie:

KJV
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 ¶ But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,


NASV
Rom 4:4. Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
Rom 5:5 .But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
Rom 6:6. just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Faith IS NOT a work.

EDITED IN >>> And yes it is the verb 'pisteuo' of the Present, Active, Participle. Therefore, according to you (from your post) the term 'believe' spoken of in here is synonmous with "Faith". Your exact quote below:

"Believe" (the verb form) is synonymous with "faith" (the noun) when it's a present, active, participle, and I think it can be shown to be a similar idea when it's a present, active of any sort

 

[TCGreek]

1. I do not know what source you consulted for your definition of pistis. But let me help you out some:

a. Abbott-Smith: pistis in

i. an active sense: "faith, belief, trust, confidence."

ii. a passive sense: "fidelity, faithfulness, a plighted faith, a pledge of fidelity."

b. BDAG:

i. "That which evokes trust and faith: "faithfulness, reliability, fidelity, commitment."

ii. "state of believing on the basis of the reliability fo the one trusted, trust, confidence, faith."

iii. "That which is believed, body of faith/belief/teaching."

2. Since we are defining what pistis means, I thought you would like to know that it means "trust, commitment, reliability, confidence, etc.

3. The nuances that you are willing to strip pistis of for you ends.

4. There's a common fallacy people commit as they try to do word-study called Selective and prejudicial use of evidence and I thought a full meaning of pistis would help us stay clear of that fallacy.

You have made no attempts to address this issue and why you need to give a full meaning of pistis, and not pick and suit to your ends.

 

[TCGreek]

1. Jesus says, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst" (John 6:35, ESV)

a. I wonder what is involved in "coming" to Jesus. What is a person leaving to "come" to Jesus?

b. "Shall not hunger," signifies an emptiness that must be filled. How can a person say that a "submitting" and "committing" is not involved in coming to Jesus as the Bread of Life?

c. I know when I am hungry that dog-food wouldn't work, bird-food wouldn't work, fish-food wouldn't work. I must reject all other allurements to satisfy my hunger and "submit" and "trust" that there's good food to satisfy my hunger.

d. No one can come to Jesus without rejecting (Repentance) other allurements to satisfy that hunger and believing (Faith), submitting to the Real satisfaction for that hunger, on the other hand. (***edited)

2. Tell me, How can this understanding of Jesus being the Bread of Life be dismissed as man-made? (***edited)

3. There's no gospel without preaching Jesus as Savior and Lord and a coming to Him in repentance and faith (Mk 1:15; Acts 20:21; Eph 2:8; 2 Cor 4:4, 5).***edited

You have made no attempts to refute that "coming to the Lord" and "believing in Him" involve "submitting" and "surrendering."

 

[TCGreek]

1. You opened a can of worms when you brought post #10 and now you want to pretend that it didn't happen. Come on! You know better than that.

2. You brought in Eph 2:8-9, while all along we were discussion James 4:7-10. Why are you the only one allowed to bring in other texts to prove your point, but others cannot? Come on! You know better than that.

3. Your subtlety has not eluded me. I will defend the truth of Scripture: Jesus preached Repentance and Faith (Mk 1:15). Paul preached Repentance and Faith (Acts 20:21). Paul preached Jesus as Lord (2 Cor 4:4, 5).

4. Tell me, what then should we preach? Your empty idea of the gospel?

You have made no attempts to address the question of Why is it you can use of texts to disprove James 4:7-10 and LS, but others can use other texts to defend LS.

 

[skypair]

No one can come to Jesus without rejecting (Repentance) other allurements to satisfy that hunger and believing (Faith), submitting to the Real satisfaction for that hunger, on the other hand. (***edited)

NOW YOU'RE TALKING!! Preach it, brother!! Leave and receive regeneration and faith!

There's no gospel without preaching Jesus as Savior and Lord and a coming to Him in repentance and faith (Mk 1:15; Acts 20:21; Eph 2:8; 2 Cor 4:4, 5).***edited

Yeah! That's what I been talkin' about! Salvation conditioned on repentance!

skypair

 

[skypair]

Hey all,

Isn't the question of whether James 4:7-10 is a salvation message or not resolved in the first verses of James? Jas 1:1-2 -- "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. 2 My brethren,..."

I find it even more interesting that James was THE first book written after Christ died and was, therefore, very directed toward the Jews and still very oriented toward works (as we see was the case before the Jerusalem council in Acts 15 -- the dispute over circumcising the Gentiles not having yet been resolced.).

I believe that for MacArthur to analyze Jas 4:7-10 as he does is to take a pre-council, pre-"what are we going to do with the Gentiles" approach. I find it doubly puzzling that he would take a "works" approach regarding the saved and yet disavow "works" (belief, sinner's prayer) as a condition of regeneration and salvation!

skypair

 

[Faith alone]

Lou Martuneac][/B]Ahh, too bad. Grilling steak and sword fish tonight. However, nothing can top the Friday night banquet. Agree?

It was a blessing to meet you at the Grace Conference.


Lou

Yes, I really did enjoy that, and much enjoyed meeting you as well. But more than about anything, I really, really, really enjoyed getting out of those 'Bib overalls'! :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

Where was this grace conference?

Thx,

FA

 

[Lou Martuneac]

Grace Conference

[/I]Where was this grace conference?

Hi FA:

This is the link to the Grace Conference.


LM

 

[Faith alone]

Hi FA:

This is the link to the Grace Conference.


LM

Lou,

Thx. I've emailed their contact # so that I'll be reminded about it for next year.

FA

 

[mmetts]

In John MacArthur's The Gospel According to Jesus both the original and revised version (pp. 218 & 252 respectively) this statement appears,
Here is the passage Dr. MacArthur refers to as an “invitation to salvation:”


I will ask just two questions to open the discussion:

1) Is the epistle of James, and this passage specifically, directed to the lost or to those who are saved already?

2) Where in James 4:7-10 do we find salvation by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9)?


LM

John MacArthur is an excellent teacher and I believe he is dead on in the passage referring to sinners. I won't answer your first question because I think you are baiting with it on a cheap point.

 

[mmetts]

It's written to saved individuals.

Amen HoG. :applause:

 

[Accountable]

1. Jesus preached Repent and Believe the Gospel (Mk.1:15)

The above statement is correct but not to your choice of gospel.

Jesus was dealing with the gospel of the Kingdom. He was dealing with repentance for the Kingdom was at hand.

He was not telling them to believe the gospel of grace. How were they to believe the death, burial and ressurection of Christ when it had yet to happen?

 

[TCGreek]

1. Jesus preached Repent and Believe the Gospel (Mk.1:15)

The above statement is correct but not to your choice of gospel.

Jesus was dealing with the gospel of the Kingdom. He was dealing with repentance for the Kingdom was at hand.

He was not telling them to believe the gospel of grace. How were they to believe the death, burial and ressurection of Christ when it had yet to happen?

1. Jesus preached Repent and Believe in the Gospel (Mk. 1:15).

2. Tell me, What is the Gospel? What Gospel did Jesus tell them to believe in?

 

[Accountable]

1. Jesus preached Repent and Believe the Gospel (Mk.1:15)


1. Jesus preached Repent and Believe in the Gospel (Mk. 1:15).

2. Tell me, What is the Gospel? What Gospel did Jesus tell them to believe in?

I would be more than glad to answer your questions.
In order to understand your first question, I need to know which gospel you are asking about. What is the gospel? Literally the answer would be the good news. BUT there is more than one good news in the Bible.
The gospel of grace? The gospel of the Kingdom? Paul's gospel? etc.

Concerning your second question: What Gospel did Jesus tell them to believe in?
If you are still in Mk. 1:15 it is the gospel of the Kingdom. Not the gospel of grace which was yet to be set before them. This gospel of Mk. 1:15 is not the death burial and ressurection and that He was seen gospel.

 

[npetreley]

I would be more than glad to answer your questions. In order to understand your first question, I need to know which gospel you are asking about. What is the gospel? Literally the answer would be the good news. BUT there is more than one good news in the Bible. The gospel of grace? The gospel of the Kingdom? Paul's gospel? etc.

I do not agree that there is more than one gospel. But if there is more than one, there's only one that matters. Pick one and call it THE gospel, but choose carefully. As Paul said, if anyone preaches ANY OTHER GOSPEL, let him be accursed.

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Add gospels at your own peril, and be accursed.