Is this biblical

[freeatlast]

If I offer thanks for all God provides, don't you think he is aware of what was provided and desires it to be used for His glory? Is that not part of the "blessing" offered before one eats?

I don't see this as a big "cult" like issue.

Giving thanks for all God gives is good, but there is no reason to believe that He causes everything to happen. I seriously doubt a woman is thanking God for being raped, or a mother for her child being murdered in a drive by. The saying "everything happens for a reason" is just simply false and cannot be supported with scripture.

 

[HankD]

Rather than saying God causes all things, I would say that all things are God's responsibility - but the execution of this responsibility is according to His own time table.

Ecclesiastes 3
1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.​

Psalm 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.​

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.​

Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.​

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.​

For this reason:

Philippians 2

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

HankD​

 

[Tom Bryant]

We either have a God who is in control or a god (small g is intentional) who is somehow out of control. I don't understand how a God who can cause all things to work together for good (no matter what the OP thinks) but is not responsible for the evil acts that His creation does. That's part of His ways are not our ways and that his ways are past finding out.

I'll live with the tension of that. I couldn't live with a god who is at the whims of evil people and somehow has to constantly be figuring out how to deal with situations. I'll stick with the Biblical God.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

We either have a God who is in control or a god (small g is intentional) who is somehow out of control.

A Sovereign Choice to not interfere is not a failure to be in control.

I don't understand how a God who can cause all things to work together for good (no matter what the OP thinks) but is not responsible for the evil acts that His creation does. That's part of His ways are not our ways and that his ways are past finding out.

He can "cause all things to work together": This does not have to mean: "He causes all things"

I'll live with the tension of that.

But you don't have to.

I couldn't live with a god who is at the whims of evil people and somehow has to constantly be figuring out how to deal with situations.

A Sovereign choice by an Omnipotent God to refuse to interfere in certain circumstances does not render him at the "whims of evil people" that does not follow. Moreover, He does not have to "constantly be figuring out how to deal with situations" if he is Omniscient.

I'll stick with the Biblical God.

We all do, and when the Biblical God states without any assumptions necessary on our part that he is the causal force behind all things, I will accept that as true.

 

[agedman]

Giving thanks for all God gives is good, but there is no reason to believe that He causes everything to happen. I seriously doubt a woman is thanking God for being raped, or a mother for her child being murdered in a drive by. The saying "everything happens for a reason" is just simply false and cannot be supported with scripture.

I didn't say we can be "thankful to God" in all matters and at all times. However, thankfulness is part of the healing process in helping to get past a great emotional/physical tragedy.

If one were to accept that reason is not behind everything that happens, then there would be an excuse for irrational-isms.

Tragedies and hurtful actions forced upon "innocent" victims then would not be crimes. The raper and drive by shooter could just claim irrational-ism is an excuse.

But, God (nor man unless your Muslim) offer such an excuse.

Did God know that Eve would be tempted and give the fruit to Adam?

Did God know that a certain bullet fired from some gun in Vietnam would strike down a cousin?

Did God know that a small bit of plaque would break off a blood vessel travel to the brain of my brother and he have a stroke?

Did God know that microscopic flu germ sitting on the hand of a friendly pew sitter would be spread around the assembly during meet and greet?

If the flowers in the field and sparrow in the garden are attended by God, how much more reason, full understanding, and ultimate purpose does He place when one meets all events of living.

"Chance" and "I didn't know" are not part of the character and nature of God.

The Scriptures teach in the Psalms that the Lord is the shepherd. The verses continue by showing that in EVERY aspect of life, living and even in death, He is intimately involved.

Bad things happen because of reason.
Good things happen because of reason.
The widow who gives from her heart the last she has because of reason.
The heathen farmer who planted and worked the soil that others will come and destroy he, his whole family, and reap and benefit of his labor because of reason.

God is not irrational.

There is purpose and reason for every single "thing" under heaven. Ecclesiastes expresses this thinking.

 

[HankD]

We either have a God who is in control or a god (small g is intentional) who is somehow out of control. I don't understand how a God who can cause all things to work together for good (no matter what the OP thinks) but is not responsible for the evil acts that His creation does. That's part of His ways are not our ways and that his ways are past finding out.

I'll live with the tension of that. I couldn't live with a god who is at the whims of evil people and somehow has to constantly be figuring out how to deal with situations. I'll stick with the Biblical God.

I'm with you Tom.

I once heard this statement:

"Has it ever occurred to you that nothing ever occurred to God?"

Personally, I don't make it a question of control because that's intuitive, a given and in that I agree.

However, the problem for us (or some of us) is the apparent randomness of evil events and the seemingly unresponsiveness of God (e.g. The Holocaust, Pol Pot slaughter, etc...).

He knows the end from the beginning and will deal with every thing at the appopriate time(s) the times of which He Himself has ordained the schedule.

Utimately He will "take care of business".

Matthew 13

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.​

HankD​

 

[quantumfaith]

A Sovereign Choice to not interfere is not a failure to be in control.



He can "cause all things to work together": This does not have to mean: "He causes all things"




But you don't have to.


A Sovereign choice by an Omnipotent God to refuse to interfere in certain circumstances does not render him at the "whims of evil people" that does not follow. Moreover, He does not have to "constantly be figuring out how to deal with situations" if he is Omniscient.


We all do, and when the Biblical God states without any assumptions necessary on our part that he is the causal force behind all things, I will accept that as true.

:thumbs::thumbs::applause:

 

[fortytworc]

:thumbs::thumbs::applause:

This question may be asking for us to understand more than our finite minds can understand an infinite Creator of the whole universe. While we pay lip service to the concept that "God's ways are not our ways...God is so far above us ...He is so 'Other' than us...We are like dumb sheep, like ants....His Incarnation is like us becoming ants in order to try to communicate with the ants what we know (science, math, relationships, emotions, philosophies, theology... our 'love' toward ants, why we became ants...) we then go on to explain how we have Him all figured out. His ways are not are ways, but I will now explain His ways. He is so far above us...Now listen to me as I bring Him down from His 'above' state...I think you get my point.
I am Not saying that we can know Nothing of our God and Savior. I just believe that we (me, you, all of us) think we know more than we really do. It would do us, and those around us well to re-approach Him and His Word as ' little children, for such is the kingdom of heaven.' Not immaturely still needing milk, but as those mature ones who, nevertheless still realize that we don't know more than we do know. Those who are growing but still know that we are His children.
I am 55 years old. I became a Christian when I was 10. I can say that I have been a serious student of the Scriptures for those 45 years. I can also say that today I have more questions than answers. [The reason for my signature]

 

[HeirofSalvation]

I

didn't say we can be "thankful to God" in all matters and at all times. However, thankfulness is part of the healing process in helping to get past a great emotional/physical tragedy.

If one were to accept that reason is not behind everything that happens, then there would be an excuse for irrational-isms.

Tragedies and hurtful actions forced upon "innocent" victims then would not be crimes. The raper and drive by shooter could just claim irrational-ism is an excuse.

But, God (nor man unless your Muslim) offer such an excuse.

Did God know that Eve would be tempted and give the fruit to Adam?

Did God know that a certain bullet fired from some gun in Vietnam would strike down a cousin?

Did God know that a small bit of plaque would break off a blood vessel travel to the brain of my brother and he have a stroke?

Did God know that microscopic flu germ sitting on the hand of a friendly pew sitter would be spread around the assembly during meet and greet?

If the flowers in the field and sparrow in the garden are attended by God, how much more reason, full understanding, and ultimate purpose does He place when one meets all events of living.

"Chance" and "I didn't know" are not part of the character and nature of God.

The Scriptures teach in the Psalms that the Lord is the shepherd. The verses continue by showing that in EVERY aspect of life, living and even in death, He is intimately involved.

Please define:"intimately involved"

Bad things happen because of reason.
Good things happen because of reason.

These are bald assertions: please support these contentions. This is the onus of the OP.

The widow who gives from her heart the last she has because of reason.

Uh....yes the widow has a reason for doing as she does....

The heathen farmer who planted and worked the soil that others will come and destroy he, his whole family, and reap and benefit of his labor because of reason.

Yes, the heathen farmer has good reason to believe that if he works hard and sows...then he might indeed reap a good harvest, hence, he does so, please explain how this answers the question in the OP....Whether or not others come and destroy it is not germaine to the question...not at all, sometimes they do....sometimes they don't.

God is not irrational.

No he isn't, please tell us something we don't know :sleep:

There is purpose and reason for every single "thing" under heaven. Ecclesiastes expresses this thinking.

Erm......not to be that guy, but........well yes, to be that guy..... Ecclesiastes does NOT in fact say or imply that there is:

"purpose and reason"

It simply tells us that there is a TIME for every purpose under heaven.....the question posted is about the "purposes under heaven"

Did God know that Eve would be tempted and give the fruit to Adam?

Did God know that a certain bullet fired from some gun in Vietnam would strike down a cousin?

Did God know that a small bit of plaque would break off a blood vessel travel to the brain of my brother and he have a stroke?

Did God know that microscopic flu germ sitting on the hand of a friendly pew sitter would be spread around the assembly during meet and greet?

God knew this....so what...what does God's omniscience have to do with the question posed? No one was STUPID enough to ask if God were aware of these facts. they asked if each INDIVIDUAL act had a Divine purpose.

If the flowers in the field and sparrow in the garden are attended by God,

Allow me to throw out something...Did God shove your little sparrow out of the tree? The Scriptures do tell us that God knows it and is aware of it...but yet again......are you therefore implying that God has an individual purpose for every little act that occurs? Please support this.

how much more reason, full understanding, and ultimate purpose does He place when one meets all events of living.

You pose this as a question as though we must assume what the answer is....so...since you asked this as a question...Do tell? What is the answer...The OP was a question....you seem to know said answer....tell us.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Just to throw this out:

The Beauty and wonder of Arminian Theology is that sin, for instance, has no purpose, it is merely that....Sin...as the Calvinist Theologian R.C. Sproul states: "It is the ultimate treason against God"....In Arminian Theology, God does not have to answer for this....he was against it....He neither intended it nor caused it.

 

[quantumfaith]

This question may be asking for us to understand more than our finite minds can understand an infinite Creator of the whole universe. While we pay lip service to the concept that "God's ways are not our ways...God is so far above us ...He is so 'Other' than us...We are like dumb sheep, like ants....His Incarnation is like us becoming ants in order to try to communicate with the ants what we know (science, math, relationships, emotions, philosophies, theology... our 'love' toward ants, why we became ants...) we then go on to explain how we have Him all figured out. His ways are not are ways, but I will now explain His ways. He is so far above us...Now listen to me as I bring Him down from His 'above' state...I think you get my point.
I am Not saying that we can know Nothing of our God and Savior. I just believe that we (me, you, all of us) think we know more than we really do. It would do us, and those around us well to re-approach Him and His Word as ' little children, for such is the kingdom of heaven.' Not immaturely still needing milk, but as those mature ones who, nevertheless still realize that we don't know more than we do know. Those who are growing but still know that we are His children.
I am 55 years old. I became a Christian when I was 10. I can say that I have been a serious student of the Scriptures for those 45 years. I can also say that today I have more questions than answers. [The reason for my signature]

:applause::applause::applause:

Although I am not entirely sure of your point. Do I give you impressions otherwise from what you have stated?

 

[Berean]

It does...it just says MORE than that. (of course depending on the translation, some say "God works all things together for good...more active...I'm not good enough at greek to know which one is correct.)

KEY; For those who are called .......................

 

[agedman]

Please define:"intimately involved"

I assume you are revisiting my post, so I will respond.

Intimately -

1. Marked by close acquaintance, association, or familiarity.
2. Relating to or indicative of one's deepest nature: intimate prayers.
3. Essential; innermost: the intimate structure of matter.
4. Marked by informality and privacy: an intimate nightclub.
5. Very personal; private: an intimate letter.
6. Of or involved in a sexual relationship.
n.
A close friend or confidant.​

Involved - Connected by participation or association

The Lord Jesus spoke of the hair on the head being numbered, that the flowers are arrayed in less beauty than His care for humankind, and that a sparrow doesn't fall without His knowledge. Certainly, if the Lord knows the thoughts before they are even formed in the head, knows our members before we are formed in the womb, and knows our going out and coming in, then certainly he is in all points "intimately involved" especially with those who are called His own children.

These are bald assertions: please support these contentions. This is the onus of the OP.

God is not irrational. Nothing happens to the believer that He is not totally aware, nor meets His approval. The Scriptures teach that "the LORD searches all hearts, and understands all the imaginations of the thoughts..." That doesn't apply just to the believers, but to all humankind.

The Scriptures teach that all the ways of the wicked are known:

"And mine eye shall not spare thee, neither will I have pity: but I will recompense thy ways upon thee, and thine abominations shall be in the midst of thee: and ye shall know that I am the LORD. Thus saith the Lord GOD; An evil, an only evil, behold, is come. An end is come, the end is come: it watcheth for thee; behold, it is come."​

If the Lord knows the ways of the wicked then He certainly knows those of the believer.

Therefore because God is a God of the rational - all things have purpose and reason.

Yes, the heathen farmer has good reason to believe that if he works hard and sows...then he might indeed reap a good harvest, hence, he does so, please explain how this answers the question in the OP....Whether or not others come and destroy it is not germaine to the question...not at all, sometimes they do....sometimes they don't.

I was taking the story of the Jews entering the land and the instructions of God that they would have what they didn't plant. Did God have reason? Did God have purpose?

Those are rhetorical questions that are not answered in the negative.

Allow me to throw out something...Did God shove your little sparrow out of the tree? The Scriptures do tell us that God knows it and is aware of it...but yet again......are you therefore implying that God has an individual purpose for every little act that occurs? Please support this.

God knowledge and purpose doesn't mean that God actually throws the sparrow out of the tree.

What might seem a "little act" by some, doesn't mean that it is little to God.

A worm is little, but it ate the shade Jonah enjoyed.

An amoeba is microscopic, but can destroy a brain.

What may be of greater concern is that the believer is in every aspect of living to acknowledge God, yet some would actually consider that God is not purposed in every aspect.

You pose this as a question as though we must assume what the answer is....so...since you asked this as a question...Do tell? What is the answer...The OP was a question....you seem to know said answer....tell us.

The Lord Jesus drew the comparison of the sparrow and the Lily when demonstrating the care and concern He holds of the believer.

The statement in the OP was that "Everything happens for a reason." And it does.

 

[fortytworc]

:applause::applause::applause:

Although I am not entirely sure of your point. Do I give you impressions otherwise from what you have stated?

Not at all. I was responding to the OP "Everything happens for a reason." Is this biblical? Why? In jumping in I just happened to click on you. I should have clicked on the first panel. Sorry for the confusion. Does what I said make any sense now? A shorter way of saying what I said could've been, "I don't think we know the answer. We understand so little, and He is so "Not Us".

 

[fortytworc]

:applause::applause::applause:

Although I am not entirely sure of your point. Do I give you impressions otherwise from what you have stated?

I just hit the wrong 'Quote ' button when I threw my 2cents in. I enjoy your comments and am refreshed at seeing someone else who wants to be calm, rational, and logical.