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Is this blasphemous enough for you?
- Thread starter Amy.G
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Just for the record and because I'm sure it has never been discussed :laugh: on this board before:
Go back and read the whole chapter. Right before you get to the part about Jesus being the ‘one mediator’ are we not urged to make ‘supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings for everyone?? What is going on here? Are we not being asked ‘mediate’ for others? It is certainly not because Jesus can’t handle it! God the Father invites us to participate in the type of ‘mediation’ just as we are also invited to ‘pick up our cross’ and follow Him.
Jesus is the SOLE MEDIATOR between God the Father and mankind. HOWEVER, there are many intercessors and if you will pardon the expression ‘subordinate mediators.’ :BangHead:
I understand lori, intercessory prayer is part of the Christian venue made among those living upon the earth. It is perfectly normal to ask another Christian to pray for you or on behalf of another.
However, the Bible of non-catholics does not contain the Apocrypha (nor do most non-catholics accept it as canonical) where requesting prayer for and/or from the departed is taught, even to or from one who has been blessed as Mary certainly was.
In addition look up the Fifth Marian Dogma where Mary is addressed as co-redemptrix, mediatrix of all graces and Advocate. There is a parallel to the Trinity here which makes most non-catholics (well this one anyway) uneasy.
I'm not sure I have addressed your issue.
HankD
I do not mediate between God and someone else when I pray for them. I pray for them and Jesus intercedes between God and me. Jesus presents my plea before the Father, not theirs. God would be answering my prayer, not the person I'm praying for.
Hank, I don't think the Deuterocanonical books address praying to the saints. They affirm praying for the dead (2 Maccabees 12:42-46) but say nothing about praying to the dead.
Also, there are four, not five, Marian dogmas:
1. Mother of God
2. Perpetual Virginity
3. Immaculate Conception
4. The Assumption
Mediatrix of all graces is not a dogma, although it is a commonly held belief.
Priscilla Ann
Member
Lori:
I have provided a link below. Do you feel this prayer is appropropriate? Why or why not?
http://www.pray-with-beads.com/hail-holy-queen-prayer.html
You need to remember that these are ancient prayers and were originally said in Latin. The English translation here is a bit clumsy.
Here is how the first part reads in Latin.
Salve Regina, Mater Misericordia,vita,dulcedo et spes nostra, salve.
Hail, Queen, Hail! Mother of Mercy, life, sweetness and our hope.
Mary is the mother of Mercy (Jesus) who is our life, sweetness and our hope.
I suspect you and Amy (as well as others) assume that Catholics believe mercy originates with Mary. We do not.
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Priscilla Ann
Member
I was a Catholic for 38 years, so I am familiar with what Catholics believe about Mary. Even when I was a Catholic, that prayer made me uneasy when it was said in church -- I remember it being said in church during the Rosary before the start of mass. Scripture never elevates Mary to this level; Mary is not "our life, sweetness and our hope."
Mary is not 'our life, sweetness and hope.' The prayer is not saying that. In Latin it is clear that Jesus is our life, sweetness and hope.
What people think Catholicism teaches about Mary and what the Catholic Church actually teaches about Mary are often two different things. As a Baptist I had to study the actual teachings and read Catholic apologetics to work through my Baptist bais to Catholicism.
Many poorly cathechized Catholics end up in other churches. In my church we have a very large class of Reverts' back to the Catholic Church as a result of excellent teachers clarifying the Faith.
Priscilla Ann
Member
The prayer, in its entirety, focuses on Mary -- not Jesus. Yes, I know all about Catholic apologetics; I spent several years studying the teachings of Catholicism before I left -- reading authors such as Karl Keating, Scott Hahn, Steve Ray, etc., as well as studying the Catechism of the Catholic Church and taking RCIA classes. I left because I do understand what the Catholic Church teaches -- not because I don't understand.
There is no scriptural support for the position to which the Catholic Church elevates Mary. There is also no scriptural basis for the Immaculate Conception or the Assumption. Clearly, the Catholic Church places its own manmade doctrines above the teachings of scripture.
Alive in Christ
New Member
This was posted...
Alive in Christ
New Member
Lori...
Nonsense.
The Maryolatry that exists in the Catholic church has existed for centuries, becoming more decietfully wicked and prominant with every passing century. I, like Pricilla Ann...was a Catholic victim before encountering, and receiving, the true Jesus. Lori, ex-catholics cant be fooled. We have seen and experienced it all from the inside. Now, having Christ alive in us, we see the deception and wickedness.
Its just so very obvious.
WHY, Lori...do YOU not see the obvious truth concerning these matters?
Nonsense.
The Maryolatry that exists in the Catholic church has existed for centuries, becoming more decietfully wicked and prominant with every passing century. I, like Pricilla Ann...was a Catholic victim before encountering, and receiving, the true Jesus. Lori, ex-catholics cant be fooled. We have seen and experienced it all from the inside. Now, having Christ alive in us, we see the deception and wickedness.
Its just so very obvious.
WHY, Lori...do YOU not see the obvious truth concerning these matters?
Yes you are correct on both counts Zenas.
The RCC extends prayers to the "dead" for the sainted.
The Fifth Marian Dogma exists as tradition. The pope has not confirmed it via ex cathedra but is expected to do so in the future.
http://www.fifthmariandogma.com/
HankD
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Because my experience has been different than yours and some of the others who post here. In the Catholic Church I have drawn ever closer to Jesus. In it's liturgy (in Greek 'the work of the people') I am always fed by Word and Sacrament.
Jesus performed the work of salvation once and for all. Sacramentally, Jesus makes present His saving act in the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist=The Mass. This happens because of the presence and power of the Holy Spirit. Liturgy is always a Trinitarian event. Through the Church and the sacraments God has made this available to us.
As I said, I have become so much closer to Jesus since leaving the Baptist church for the Catholic Church. I appreciate your concern but I'm convinced I'm home.
Alive in Christ
New Member
Lori...
You do know that there are conterfiet Jesus's, dont you?
Jesus feeds nobody through sacraments. He feeds us through the word of God. The scriptures, with the Holy Spirits teaching ministry.
Yes, He did.
You have been lied to, Lori. And you have bought the lie "hook, line, and sinker".
The Holy Spirit hasd absolutely NOTHING to do with the Catholic Mass, except convicting people to flee such idolatries.
You have been lied to, Lori.
There are false Jesus's, Lori.
I know you feel convinced of that.
The Mormons and Jehovahs Wittneses also feel convinced that they are home.
Does that make them right?
You do know that there are conterfiet Jesus's, dont you?
Jesus feeds nobody through sacraments. He feeds us through the word of God. The scriptures, with the Holy Spirits teaching ministry.
Yes, He did.
You have been lied to, Lori. And you have bought the lie "hook, line, and sinker".
The Holy Spirit hasd absolutely NOTHING to do with the Catholic Mass, except convicting people to flee such idolatries.
You have been lied to, Lori.
There are false Jesus's, Lori.
I know you feel convinced of that.
The Mormons and Jehovahs Wittneses also feel convinced that they are home.
Does that make them right?
Apples and Oranges!
What I find so interesting is that you never seem to address the fact that MOST all Christian churches and teaching disagrees with you about Sacraments. Presbyterians, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Orthodox, etc. all say that the Holy Spriit is connected to sacraments. My own experience proves you are wrong.
Your extreme bais concerning anything that 'is Catholic' is very obvious. Do all these other chuches also follow a 'false Jesus' or is it just the RCC?
At mass this morning our priest said that we need to accept Jesus deeper into our hearts each day. To 'read, mark, and inwardly digest His holy word daily. That we need to be doers of the word and not just hearers.
No, I have no doubt that the Jesus I accepted as my Lord and Savior as a Baptist is the Jesus I love and follow as His disciple in the Catholic Church.
Alive in Christ
New Member
Lori...
Lori, all of those groups you listed who agree with the catholic church regarding the sacraments would be groups who have been infiltrated with the poisonous leven of ultra liberal theology. Those groups have lost all credibilty regarding their view of scripture.
Well, yes. I'm guilty as charged. I have a strong bias against the Catholic church in the same way I have a strong bias against drinking poison.
The Catholic church and the Orthodox are definetly in a league all there own regarding these hellish issues, but some ultra liberal protestant groups are catching up pretty quickly, un-fortunetly.
But of course, this has all been prophesied as coming about a long time ago.
Praise God.
Lori, all of those groups you listed who agree with the catholic church regarding the sacraments would be groups who have been infiltrated with the poisonous leven of ultra liberal theology. Those groups have lost all credibilty regarding their view of scripture.
Well, yes. I'm guilty as charged. I have a strong bias against the Catholic church in the same way I have a strong bias against drinking poison.
The Catholic church and the Orthodox are definetly in a league all there own regarding these hellish issues, but some ultra liberal protestant groups are catching up pretty quickly, un-fortunetly.
But of course, this has all been prophesied as coming about a long time ago.
Praise God.
Alive in Christ
New Member
ooops.
Accidental duplicate post
:wavey:
Accidental duplicate post
:wavey:
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