Is this typical for todays missionaries?

[KJVkid]

I was told of a home (USA) missionary that has 200 supporting churches, three airplanes and owns a farm worth a half million. He is a "church planter" missionary. In 11 years he "planted" one (1) church. Is this typical or is something wrong here? Honest opinion.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Depends on how long he had to fly from one end of the Church to the other in those airplanes.:laugh:

Church planting should take some time, but I believe 11 years may be stretching it.

 

[just-want-peace]

I was told of a home (USA) missionary that has 200 supporting churches, three airplanes and owns a farm worth a half million. He is a "church planter" missionary. In 11 years he "planted" one (1) church. Is this typical or is something wrong here? Honest opinion.

Not much meat to chew on here--"I was told--"!

Who told you?
Are they credible?
What's the rest of the story?
Does someone have an issue with this missionary that's not included here?
Is this the "absolute truth", or just part of a bigger scenario?

Lots of un-answered questions on this situation! Too many for a rational discussion.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Have you met this missionary?

 

[mcdirector]

Where is the church plant?

 

[KJVkid]

Who told you?
Are they credible?
What's the rest of the story?
Does someone have an issue with this missionary that's not included here?
Is this the "absolute truth", or just part of a bigger scenario?

I know this missionary personally! I am not just telling a story! This fellow is in the States and "flies" for a hobby. He has three air planes and one church after 11 years and is now helping a fellow start another Baptist church about 50 miles from him and he flies there. He is supported by 200 churches. I don't know what his income is but you figure it out. Do I have an issue with him, YES! Do churches just "take" on missionaries without checking them out? I wonder how many other "missionaries" there are out there like this guy.

 

[annsni]

I don't think it's typical at all.

I know our church and our missionaries are not typical either. We tend to home grow our missionaries and support them 100% so they don't need to go searching for additional support. We do have a few that have multiple supporters but that's by their choice, not ours (some are couples who have 2 home churches - one from our church, the other from a different church so both home churches support them). We have a pastor dedicated to our missionaries and we just started our own "mission board" (our missions pastor and 2 other men who have had a big hand in our missions) to help them in whatever help they need.

 

[KJVkid]

Your pastor is to be commended!

 

[StefanM]

As a Southern Baptist congregation, my church supports missionaries through the Cooperative Program. The NAMB and IMB hold the missionaries to standards of spending and the use of other resources.

 

[abcgrad94]

KJVkid, if what you're saying is true, I would use Matt. 18 as a guideline and first talk to the man personally and ask him to come clean. If that doesn't work, I'd contact his mission board if he has one, or possibly the pastors of his supporting churches.

I don't think this is typical of most missionaries. In fact, many are overworked, underpaid, and too often ignored by their supporting churches. As an independent Baptist, though, I have seen firsthand some "missionaries" that caused me to really lose faith in the whole concept. It's hard not to become biased when you've been burnt, especially by someone claiming to be in ministry.

Just remember, for every fraud out there, there are many, many more who sacrifice much for the sake of Christ, and they need our prayers and encuragement.

 

[Salty]

Is this pastor enorsed by a mission board? If so, they should know whats going on?

 

[KJVkid]

This fellow is an Ind. Baptist and not under a mission board. He is the one that made the statement that he was supported by 200 churches. I know of only a few of his supporting churches. What would happen if I would call the pastor and tell him what is going on? Want to guess? I guess my problem is this, we have a daughter and her family serving the Lord on foreign soil. They are living in a very undesirable place and their income is in the range of poverty here in the US.

 

[John of Japan]

I was told of a home (USA) missionary that has 200 supporting churches, three airplanes and owns a farm worth a half million. He is a "church planter" missionary. In 11 years he "planted" one (1) church. Is this typical or is something wrong here? Honest opinion.

I've occasionally heard stories like this, but never known a missionary like him. There are some bad apples, but about 98% of the missionaries I've known are good, godly, honest people.

200 churches is a whole lot if the average amount of support is at all high--but not if you only get $20 per church. No missionary should own 3 planes unless he is a missionary pilot.

Some missionaries do have property in the States, though. It's either that or having to rent when you retire from the field some day. Actually, nowadays half a million might not buy much land. I don't know much about the prices in the States, but here in Japan that would barely buy a modest home with a very small yard.

As for the 11 years planting a church in the States, that is probably too long. However, if it is a cross-cultural church plant to say, middle eastern Muslims in America, or Japanese or Chinese, it might not be too long. Here in Japan, I have known of many church planting efforts that took way longer than 11 years. In one case it took consecutively: two missionaries, one Japanese pastor, another missionary and finally the current Japanese pastor, all over a time of about 20 years.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

My question is where is the missionary located? If Alaska then an aitplane is a viable possibility. As for the one church in 11 years, every field is different. There are field with "low" hanging fruit. Then, there are fields that take years to show signs of any kind of progress. I assume you wouldn't have jerked Adoniram Judson off the Burmese field because he didn't meet your time table.

 

[KJVkid]

What about the New Hampshire, Maine border?

 

[John of Japan]

What about the New Hampshire, Maine border?

That's a very difficult area in the States to plant churches. It could take 11 years.

 

[KJVkid]

In all due respect John, look up Baptist churches and notice how many there are in the Northern NH and Southern ME area. My contention is with a fellow that has raised over $90,000.00 a year income. Has three airplanes and a 1/2 to 1 million $ farm and is a "church planter." This guy is one of us! The problem I see with this is there is no accountability. I personally know of this one fellow. How many others are there. When a missionary comes to church and I ask them how much support they are seeking MOST of them get offended. I am an Independent Baptist. There are times when I think our independence is too independent!

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Sounds like you need to deal with this chap one on one.

It is difficult to draw a conclusion only hearing one side of the story.

You know the answer to your OP. If all that you say is true this is very atypical.

MOST missionaries get offended when you ask them how much support they need to raise? Perhaps you need a new field of missionaries. No missionary should ever be offended at that question.

 

[4His_glory]

In all due respect John, look up Baptist churches and notice how many there are in the Northern NH and Southern ME area. My contention is with a fellow that has raised over $90,000.00 a year income. Has three airplanes and a 1/2 to 1 million $ farm and is a "church planter." This guy is one of us! The problem I see with this is there is no accountability. I personally know of this one fellow. How many others are there. When a missionary comes to church and I ask them how much support they are seeking MOST of them get offended. I am an Independent Baptist. There are times when I think our independence is too independent!

You know, there are those of us independent Baptists that have accountability because we are with a good missions agency that helps local churches keep us accountable. This is one reason I am so grateful for my board and can not thank them enough.

 

[John of Japan]

You know, your screen name is very misleading. I thought I was talking to some young guy, then I look up your profile and you just turned 58. (Happy Birthday!) You're older than me! (I just turned 56.)

In all due respect John, look up Baptist churches and notice how many there are in the Northern NH and Southern ME area.

Don't know how I could do this from Japan and know which are good, fundamental churches and which are not. Or how long it took to plant each church. :type:

My contention is with a fellow that has raised over $90,000.00 a year income. Has three airplanes and a 1/2 to 1 million $ farm and is a "church planter." This guy is one of us! The problem I see with this is there is no accountability.

Well, we (three of us missionaries who have answered you) have accountability through our mission board. Personally I recommend to young people that they go to the field through a good, reputable board.

And by the way, now you've raised the price of his farm up to a million dollars from a half a million! :laugh:

I personally know of this one fellow. How many others are there. When a missionary comes to church and I ask them how much support they are seeking MOST of them get offended. I am an Independent Baptist. There are times when I think our independence is too independent!

I hope this isn't turning into a general attack on missionaries. I hope you've noticed that this particular forum of the BB is for fellowship, not debate.

God bless.