Is Wayne Grudem Right?

[Calv1]

Wages of sin is death, I agree. This still doesn't state All mankind deserve hell which is a PERSONAL JUDGEMENT not GOD's own judgment.


All you had is the simple job of showing us scripture where God says "all mankind deserves hell".

FAILED.


Jesus Christ states himself DO NOT JUDGE OTHERS.

In the bible we can find a verse that says ALL MANKIND IS GOING TO HELL and this would still not equate to ALL MANKIND DESERVES TO GO TO HELL. Because saying anything deserves to go to hell is a JUDGEMENT reserved to GOD ALONE.

Please by all means give an example of judgment of others that Jesus Christ says is wrong, Its not going to hold a candle to your wrongful judgment that they deserve to go to hell.

In fact there is NO WAY you can comply with the command of Jesus Christ DO NOT JUDGE OTHERS by already judging them to deserve hell.

What you are doing by judging that all deserve hell is a sin.

Wages of sin is death, I agree. This still doesn't state All mankind deserve hell which is a PERSONAL JUDGEMENT not GOD's own judgment.


All you had is the simple job of showing us scripture where God says "all mankind deserves hell".

FAILED.


Jesus Christ states himself DO NOT JUDGE OTHERS.
IS THIS GUY SERIOUS? HOW ABOUT "ALL HAVE SINNED" AND "THE WAGES OF SIN ARE DEATH", NOT ENOUGH? SHOULD BE, FOR IT'S GOD TALKING, UNLESS YOU DON'T BELIEVE HIM?

SECOND JESUS NEVER SAID TO NOT JUDGE OTHERS, HE MADE A POINT TO NOT JUDGE HYPOCRITICALLY, ON THE CONTRARY SCRIPTURE SAYS "THE RIGHTEOUS JUDGE ALL THINGS", WE ARE COMMANDED TO "DISCERN ALL THINGS", DO YOU KNOW WHAT DISCERN MEANS? IT MEANS TO JUDGE. EVERY HUMANS JUDGES 24/7, YOUR STATEMENT IS A JUDGEMENT. YOU AREN'T DOING TOO WELL ARE YOU? MAYBE STUDY THE BIBLE AND COME BACK IN TWO YEARS?

In the bible we can find a verse that says ALL MANKIND IS GOING TO HELL and this would still not equate to ALL MANKIND DESERVES TO GO TO HELL. Because saying anything deserves to go to hell is a JUDGEMENT reserved to GOD ALONE.

"ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD". IF YOU READ YOURSELF YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO ASK.

Please by all means give an example of judgment of others that Jesus Christ says is wrong, Its not going to hold a candle to your wrongful judgment that they deserve to go to hell.

"YE HYPOCRITES, HOW CAN YOU ESCAPE THE JUDGEMENT OF HELL" (SPEAKING TO THE PHARISEE'S, MATTHEW, MARK AND LUKE.

In fact there is NO WAY you can comply with the command of Jesus Christ DO NOT JUDGE OTHERS by already judging them to deserve hell.

YOU JUST JUDGED HIM!
What you are doing by judging that all deserve hell is a sin.

THIS GUYS A JOKE, JUST PUT HIM ON IGNORE, HE'S IGNORANT AND WILL DRIVE YOU CRAZY

 

[Calv1]

You guys still did not answer Romans 1 how does God give Jews depraved minds if they were already totally depraved to begin with.


How can God punish anyone with a harden heart or darkening heart, or giving them a depraved mind, If they are totally depraved, dark and harden already to begin with?

The absurdity is you can't darken the color black.

You guys still did not answer Romans 1 how does God give Jews depraved minds if they were already totally depraved to begin with.
HOW ABOUT ACTUALLY STUDYING IT? WHAT DOES IT SAY, WHAT DOES IT TEACH? PAUL STARTS WITH TALKING OF THE UNIVERSALITY OF SIN, HOW WE'RE ALL GUILTY, AS WE ALL HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD THROUGH WHAT IS MADE, THEN HE GOES INTO THE JUDGEMENTS, "THOUGH THEY KNEW GOD, THEY NEITHER THANKED HIM, SO GOD TURNED THEM OVER TO THE DEPRAVITY OF THEIR OWN MIND TO WHAT? TO DO WHAT IS WORST. SO ALL MEN ARE DEPRIVED, HOWEVER AFTER A TIME GOD "TURNS THEM OVER" TO THE WORST DEPRAVITIES, THAT IS MEN SLEEPING WITH OTHER MEN AND SN.

ARE THESE GUYS BELIEVERS? TROLLS? CLEARLY THEY'VE NEVER STUDIED THE BIBLE. GIVING THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT, WHEN YOU HAVE A QUESTION GNLINE AND USE JOHN GILL COMMENTARY, HE'S ABOUT AS GOOD AS YOU CAN GET, THAT WAY YOU WON'T EMBARRASS YOURSELF ON THESE FORUMS

How can God punish anyone with a harden heart or darkening heart, or giving them a depraved mind, If they are totally depraved, dark and harden already to begin with?

The absurdity is you can't darken the color black.

WHAT'S ABSURD IS THAT STATEMENT

 

[Calv1]

Providence is an amazing thing. Keep the faith.

Another thing, I was troubled for some time, not experiencing God's presence. I do know, it's AWESOME. I've found trying to figure out the Lords will a fools errand, sure ask questions, but to wonder why something that seems random and un beneficial happens is truly a fools errand, and me the fool!

 

[utilyan]

Wages of sin is death, I agree. This still doesn't state All mankind deserve hell which is a PERSONAL JUDGEMENT not GOD's own judgment.


All you had is the simple job of showing us scripture where God says "all mankind deserves hell".

FAILED.


Jesus Christ states himself DO NOT JUDGE OTHERS.
IS THIS GUY SERIOUS? HOW ABOUT "ALL HAVE SINNED" AND "THE WAGES OF SIN ARE DEATH", NOT ENOUGH? SHOULD BE, FOR IT'S GOD TALKING, UNLESS YOU DON'T BELIEVE HIM?

SECOND JESUS NEVER SAID TO NOT JUDGE OTHERS, HE MADE A POINT TO NOT JUDGE HYPOCRITICALLY, ON THE CONTRARY SCRIPTURE SAYS "THE RIGHTEOUS JUDGE ALL THINGS", WE ARE COMMANDED TO "DISCERN ALL THINGS", DO YOU KNOW WHAT DISCERN MEANS? IT MEANS TO JUDGE. EVERY HUMANS JUDGES 24/7, YOUR STATEMENT IS A JUDGEMENT. YOU AREN'T DOING TOO WELL ARE YOU? MAYBE STUDY THE BIBLE AND COME BACK IN TWO YEARS?

In the bible we can find a verse that says ALL MANKIND IS GOING TO HELL and this would still not equate to ALL MANKIND DESERVES TO GO TO HELL. Because saying anything deserves to go to hell is a JUDGEMENT reserved to GOD ALONE.

"ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD". IF YOU READ YOURSELF YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO ASK.

Please by all means give an example of judgment of others that Jesus Christ says is wrong, Its not going to hold a candle to your wrongful judgment that they deserve to go to hell.

"YE HYPOCRITES, HOW CAN YOU ESCAPE THE JUDGEMENT OF HELL" (SPEAKING TO THE PHARISEE'S, MATTHEW, MARK AND LUKE.

In fact there is NO WAY you can comply with the command of Jesus Christ DO NOT JUDGE OTHERS by already judging them to deserve hell.

YOU JUST JUDGED HIM!
What you are doing by judging that all deserve hell is a sin.

THIS GUYS A JOKE, JUST PUT HIM ON IGNORE, HE'S IGNORANT AND WILL DRIVE YOU CRAZY

"JESUS NEVER SAID TO NOT JUDGE OTHERS," -Calv1

Matthew 7

1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.



Pharisees are still same today. Judging others. They believe themselves chosen.


Show us the scripture where God says ALL MANKIND DESERVES HELL.

You guys keep getting angry because God never made that Judgement.

You should instead Praise the holy scripture.

I believe the bible, the Holy word of God. You try to put words in God's mouth.

God never said all mankind deserves hell. Show us the scriptures! Your judgement is trash next to God.

 

[utilyan]

You guys still did not answer Romans 1 how does God give Jews depraved minds if they were already totally depraved to begin with.
HOW ABOUT ACTUALLY STUDYING IT? WHAT DOES IT SAY, WHAT DOES IT TEACH? PAUL STARTS WITH TALKING OF THE UNIVERSALITY OF SIN, HOW WE'RE ALL GUILTY, AS WE ALL HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD THROUGH WHAT IS MADE, THEN HE GOES INTO THE JUDGEMENTS, "THOUGH THEY KNEW GOD, THEY NEITHER THANKED HIM, SO GOD TURNED THEM OVER TO THE DEPRAVITY OF THEIR OWN MIND TO WHAT? TO DO WHAT IS WORST. SO ALL MEN ARE DEPRIVED, HOWEVER AFTER A TIME GOD "TURNS THEM OVER" TO THE WORST DEPRAVITIES, THAT IS MEN SLEEPING WITH OTHER MEN AND SN.

ARE THESE GUYS BELIEVERS? TROLLS? CLEARLY THEY'VE NEVER STUDIED THE BIBLE. GIVING THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT, WHEN YOU HAVE A QUESTION GNLINE AND USE JOHN GILL COMMENTARY, HE'S ABOUT AS GOOD AS YOU CAN GET, THAT WAY YOU WON'T EMBARRASS YOURSELF ON THESE FORUMS

How can God punish anyone with a harden heart or darkening heart, or giving them a depraved mind, If they are totally depraved, dark and harden already to begin with?

The absurdity is you can't darken the color black.

WHAT'S ABSURD IS THAT STATEMENT

The reason something is called Totally depraved is because it TOTALLY is in its complete entirety.

If your already totally dumb........God can't make you dumb.

But its OK brother. I have patience for our slow brethren who seem to think ALL means SOME, totally means halfways, and when they read:

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone,

Oh that must mean man is justified by faith alone and not by works.^


I will never challenge that God doesn't love our slow bad reading brethren, so I love you too.

 

[Calv1]

"JESUS NEVER SAID TO NOT JUDGE OTHERS," -Calv1

Matthew 7

1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.



Pharisees are still same today. Judging others. They believe themselves chosen.


Show us the scripture where God says ALL MANKIND DESERVES HELL.

You guys keep getting angry because God never made that Judgement.

You should instead Praise the holy scripture.

I believe the bible, the Holy word of God. You try to put words in God's mouth.

God never said all mankind deserves hell. Show us the scriptures! Your judgement is trash next to God.

Your Exegesis, well you don't have Exegesis, clearly Jesus in context is saying to not judge hypocritically, otherwise He's telling us to not be human, and contradict where He speaks later in 1 Cor 2:15 "The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one". Even hear it doesn't mean a Spiritual person can't be "Judged", we are to assess our brothers, rebuke them, even put them out of the Church, explain will you how you can put someone out of the Church without judgement?

See you need the Spirit to know how to read the bible. IE when Jesus said to Peter "Get behind me Satan", does this mean Peter is SATAN? HE SAID IT? No, you must use biblical Exegesis, that is what is the verse saying 1. In context. 2. In view of all scripture. 3. To the audience in view.

Trust me, you're embarrassing yourself, you just don't know enough to know that..

 

[utilyan]

Your Exegesis, well you don't have Exegesis, clearly Jesus in context is saying to not judge hypocritically, otherwise He's telling us to not be human, and contradict where He speaks later in 1 Cor 2:15 "The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one". Even hear it doesn't mean a Spiritual person can't be "Judged", we are to assess our brothers, rebuke them, even put them out of the Church, explain will you how you can put someone out of the Church without judgement?

See you need the Spirit to know how to read the bible. IE when Jesus said to Peter "Get behind me Satan", does this mean Peter is SATAN? HE SAID IT? No, you must use biblical Exegesis, that is what is the verse saying 1. In context. 2. In view of all scripture. 3. To the audience in view.

Trust me, you're embarrassing yourself, you just don't know enough to know that..

Stating a person deserves hell is not a discernment.

Look at the perspective of butting heads with our treatment of God.

God equates the treatment he received as what you give least of brethren . Jesus himself says Treat others the way you want to be treated.

Do God and Jesus deserve to go to hell?



The mistake made is someone grab someone elses experiencing humiliation in the conviction of sin which help them believe on Christ and has a attempted to lay a false humility among a group.


That Judgement is reserved by God alone. You have no right to say well this guy deserves hell in fact just by stating that you are already delivering suffering and punishment by accusation.

 

[MennoSota]

Stating a person deserves hell is not a discernment.

Look at the perspective of butting heads with our treatment of God.

God equates the treatment he received as what you give least of brethren . Jesus himself says Treat others the way you want to be treated.

Do God and Jesus deserve to go to hell?



The mistake made is someone grab someone elses experiencing humiliation in the conviction of sin which help them believe on Christ and has a attempted to lay a false humility among a group.


That Judgement is reserved by God alone. You have no right to say well this guy deserves hell in fact just by stating that you are already delivering suffering and punishment by accusation.

We all deserve hell, utilyan. We all have sinned and fall short (miss the mark) of the glory of God. There is none that is righteous not even one.
The amazing grace is that even one of us is pardoned and saved from hell.

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus did not deserve to die for our sins, but thank God that he did, or else you and I still have to pay to God what is due Him!

 

[utilyan]

We all deserve hell, utilyan. We all have sinned and fall short (miss the mark) of the glory of God. There is none that is righteous not even one.
The amazing grace is that even one of us is pardoned and saved from hell.

Your statement is a insult to God.

Yeah its amazing, surprise and shocking to you that God is just half a jerk rather then a complete one you expected.

You never would have thought God would save anyone.


While our perspective is GOD is so GOOD we would not be surprised if he saved everyone.



See you are projecting YOUR personal judgment on everyone else, Thank God, GOD is nothing like you.


You are surprised he would save anyone because you expected him to be evil.

I am not surprised God is kind and merciful.

With you its a absolute miracle God would save anybody at all.

I took a glance at Jesus and knew right there we won.

 

[MennoSota]

Your statement is a insult to God.

Yeah its amazing, surprise and shocking to you that God is just half a jerk rather then a complete one you expected.

You never would have thought God would save anyone.


While our perspective is GOD is so GOOD we would not be surprised if he saved everyone.



See you are projecting YOUR personal judgment on everyone else, Thank God, GOD is nothing like you.


You are surprised he would save anyone because you expected him to be evil.

I am not surprised God is kind and merciful.

With you its a absolute miracle God would save anybody at all.

I took a glance at Jesus and knew right there we won.

You're just spouting off because you don't want to believe God's word. Instead you are forcing God to act according to your corrupt concepts.

You call God a jerk for being a just judge. You sound like the thousands of inmates who blame the judge for their incarceration when the fault is all theirs. The law rightly condemns them. They get what the law says the deserve.

God is a very just Judge. Humans get what we deserve.

God is also a loving God. He has chosen to pardon some and paid the price for their pardon.

Why does it bother you that a Sovereign King would limit for whom He would pay the price? What makes your opinion so great that God would pander to your demands?

 

[Calv1]

"JESUS NEVER SAID TO NOT JUDGE OTHERS," -Calv1

Matthew 7

1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.



Pharisees are still same today. Judging others. They believe themselves chosen.


Show us the scripture where God says ALL MANKIND DESERVES HELL.

You guys keep getting angry because God never made that Judgement.

You should instead Praise the holy scripture.

I believe the bible, the Holy word of God. You try to put words in God's mouth.

God never said all mankind deserves hell. Show us the scriptures! Your judgement is trash next to God.

Oh my gosh these guys still? You need to actually READ WHAT I WROTE, I already have. It's clear you didn't stop to read or you would have seen the scriptures. Geez no wonder you're embarrassing yourself so bad, if you read the bible like you read posts no wonder you miss everything. I won't repeat myself, just scroll back.

 

[utilyan]

You're just spouting off because you don't want to believe God's word. Instead you are forcing God to act according to your corrupt concepts.

You call God a jerk for being a just judge. You sound like the thousands of inmates who blame the judge for their incarceration when the fault is all theirs. The law rightly condemns them. They get what the law says the deserve.

God is a very just Judge. Humans get what we deserve.

God is also a loving God. He has chosen to pardon some and paid the price for their pardon.

Why does it bother you that a Sovereign King would limit for whom He would pay the price? What makes your opinion so great that God would pander to your demands?

You are calling him a jerk.

You are the one SURPRISED, SHOCKED, and AMAZED he would forgive anyone. <---That is a put-down against God.

There is no way to sugar coat your insult to God because its false humility falling on its face.


God almighty is a perfect judge. He never says all people deserve to go to hell. That is your poor judgement the same poor judgement that is "amazed" God would save anyone. Just like you would be shocked if he would help anyone hurt on the road to Jerusalem. But what is it you expect..... he would flip a coin because he doesn't always help others.

You try to force your selfish human perspective on God character, God is NOTHING like you, God is not a drop of evil. God is GOOD. Not just a privileged bully.


Evil has a easy time accepting might makes right but they can't conceive that right is might.

When you do meet God I guarantee you will be AMAZED, shocked and surprised again because he is NOTHING like that steaming pile of mess you think he is.

 

[utilyan]

Oh my gosh these guys still? You need to actually READ WHAT I WROTE, I already have. It's clear you didn't stop to read or you would have seen the scriptures. Geez no wonder you're embarrassing yourself so bad, if you read the bible like you read posts no wonder you miss everything. I won't repeat myself, just scroll back.

NONE of it says that God states "ALL MANKIND DESERVES HELL". That is a FALSE EVENT that never took place, not a lick of scripture supporting it. Show us where was he sitting and who did he tell that to.

Its NONSENSE.

Why don't you just plainly quote scripture? YOU BELIEVE the word of GOD so defective that you have to MAKE up lines for God he never said.

You are not a bible believer. You are a believer of trash philosophy trying to shove its stupid ideas into scripture.


All I gotta do is sit back and say exactly what scripture says.


You have to twist and redefine words because you believe "God is too stupid" to write down exactly what he means.


John 3

16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

^that means what it says.


1 timothy 2
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

^that means what it says.

 

[utilyan]

Oh my gosh these guys still? You need to actually READ WHAT I WROTE, I already have. It's clear you didn't stop to read or you would have seen the scriptures. Geez no wonder you're embarrassing yourself so bad, if you read the bible like you read posts no wonder you miss everything. I won't repeat myself, just scroll back.

This should be a easy challenge for a bible expert like yourself. Tell us which of these is TRUE and what is FALSE?

A OR B?


A
Romans 10:10
10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

B
Romans 10:10
10for with the heart a person believes after being made righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, after salvation.


A
1 Corinthians 1:21

21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

B
1 Corinthians 1:21

21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to cause belief in those he saved.

A
Ephesians 1

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


B
Ephesians 1

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, ye believed,


A
Romans 5
2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

B
Romans 5
2By whom also we have access by grace into this faith wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[Yeshua1]

Your statement is a insult to God.

Yeah its amazing, surprise and shocking to you that God is just half a jerk rather then a complete one you expected.

You never would have thought God would save anyone.


While our perspective is GOD is so GOOD we would not be surprised if he saved everyone.



See you are projecting YOUR personal judgment on everyone else, Thank God, GOD is nothing like you.


You are surprised he would save anyone because you expected him to be evil.

I am not surprised God is kind and merciful.

With you its a absolute miracle God would save anybody at all.

I took a glance at Jesus and knew right there we won.

God could have left all of us to go to Hell, and would be within His right, as we are all deserve it, but thank God that he choose to intercede and save out for himself his peculiar people!

 

[utilyan]

God could have left all of us to go to Hell, and would be within His right, as we are all deserve it, but thank God that he choose to intercede and save out for himself his peculiar people!

Satan is not the standard, nor the righteous, nor the norm. What I am hearing from you is God can do anything especially MAKE MISTAKES.

Show us a bible line where God says you deserve hell.

Jesus Christ says treat others the way you want to be treated. Do you treat Jesus as worthless and deserving of hell? Does Jesus Christ treat you that way because he wants to be treated as worthless and deserving of hell?

Matthew 6

26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith?


Matthew 10

29“Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30“But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31“So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.

Do sparrows deserve to go to hell?

 

[Yeshua1]

Satan is not the standard, nor the righteous, nor the norm. What I am hearing from you is God can do anything especially MAKE MISTAKES.

Show us a bible line where God says you deserve hell.

Jesus Christ says treat others the way you want to be treated. Do you treat Jesus as worthless and deserving of hell? Does Jesus Christ treat you that way because he wants to be treated as worthless and deserving of hell?

Matthew 6

26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith?


Matthew 10

29“Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30“But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31“So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.

Do sparrows deserve to go to hell?

All of us have sinned, all are enemies of God, and the God demands sin to be paid for and dealt with, so we all deserve Hell!

 

[utilyan]

All of us have sinned, all are enemies of God, and the God demands sin to be paid for and dealt with, so we all deserve Hell!

I showed bible verses, you have shown ZERO.

 

[Yeshua1]

I showed bible verses, you have shown ZERO.

Who goes to Hell then? And why are they there?