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npetreley said:
That's right. Then why do we flea to Christ? Because you "repented of your sins", i.e., decided to stop sinning? If so, you must be pretty disappointed that it didn't work.

Maybe you don't sin as much, and maybe you don't commit the same sins, but deciding to stop sinning didn't fix the fact that you're a sinner. So maybe, at this point, one needs to "repent" of thinking one can stop sinning, and flea to our Savior for mercy, instead. And that's what we're talking about.

Sins that I did before coming to Christ, I no longer do. I do not drink alcohol any more (it is sin whether one ageees or not, I don't do drugs any more, I don't steal any more, I don't curse any more.

Why? Because I felt sorrow for them and turned to Christ. I repented.

From time to time, temptations to sin arise, but not the same sins I was saved from. I am sorry many think they can continue in those same sins that they were taking pleasure in before their profession of faith.
 

npetreley

New Member
standingfirminChrist said:
Sins that I did before coming to Christ, I no longer do. I do not drink alcohol any more (it is sin whether one ageees or not, I don't do drugs any more, I don't steal any more, I don't curse any more.

So what? That and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

standingfirminChrist said:
Why? Because I felt sorrow for them and turned to Christ. I repented.

You repented of THOSE sins? Good for you. Now what about the others? Or did you "repent" enough to become 100% sinless? Your previous post says you didn't.
 

npetreley

New Member
christianyouth said:
I thought I would just add some thoughts from two great evangelical preachers, George Whitfield and Charles Spurgeon. Both believed that Repentance, a forsaking of sin was necessary for salvation.

It's the word "repent" that makes the difference. Renouncing sin is an absolutely essential part of salvation. Nobody even WANTS to be saved unless they recognize their fallen condition and how serious it is. If you're satisfied with your sinful lifestyle, or believe that you don't need to change, then you'll never even care about salvation.

But you can't effectively decide to stop sinning, which is what it means to "repent of your sins". That's works-based salvation, and it doesn't exist. One only responds to the gospel when one realizes that their situation is utterly hopeless, and they can't make themselves right with God on their own. That's when one gets to the point where he cries, "What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
 
Since my profession of faith in Christ and trusting in His finished work on the cross, He has brought to my attention some things that were sin and yes, I have repented of them.

I am sure there will be more temptations to other sins that will arise before the Lord comes agian. And as they are revealed, I will repent.
 

npetreley

New Member
standingfirminChrist said:
Since my profession of faith in Christ and trusting in His finished work on the cross, He has brought to my attention some things that were sin and yes, I have repented of them.

I am sure there will be more temptations to other sins that will arise before the Lord comes agian. And as they are revealed, I will repent.

That's wonderful. I really mean that. But when it comes to salvation, like I said, that and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee at starbucks. It contributes nothing to your salvation.
 
You say repentance of sins is works based Salvation. I say it isn't. For if one wants to continue in the same sin... say for the sake of argumentation, as Bob says 'adultery', a person who says I will place my faith in Christ, but I have to hurry because I have my girlfriend waiting for me' will not be heard by Christ. His heart is not on the Lord, it is on sin.

If the sin is in his thinking and he does not want to walk away from it, his cry for Salvation will not be heard no matter how many tears.

Repentance from sins is not works based. For one cannot come to Christ whille holding onto the devil and refusing to let go. Christ does the work, not man when it comes to Salvation, but man must be repentive of his sin that doth so easily beset him, else he will not be saved.
 

npetreley

New Member
standingfirminChrist said:
You say repentance of sins is works based Salvation. I say it isn't. For if one wants to continue in the same sin... say for the sake of argumentation, as Bob says 'adultery', a person who says I will place my faith in Christ, but I have to hurry because I have my girlfriend waiting for me' will not be heard by Christ. His heart is not on the Lord, it is on sin.

That person is a hypocrite. He is not convicted by his sin, and therefore has no need of Christ.

C'mon, anyone can conjure ridiculous examples. The point is, what if he repents and stops his adultery? Would that save him? Of course not. That's the point you keep missing.

No amount of turning from sin will contribute to our salvation. All we can do is throw ourselves on the mercy of God.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
This one is from Spurgeon's sermons, Volume II.
Turn Or Burn

I.In the first place, my hearers, let me endeavor to explain to you the nature of the turning here meant.....

Ah! My hearer, it is not thy promise of repentance that can save thee; it is not thy vow, it is not thy solemn declaration, it is not the tear that is dried more easily than the dew-drop by the sun; it is not the transient emotion of the heart, which constitues a real turning to God. There must be a true and actual abandonment of sin, and a turning unto righteousness in real act and deed in every day life. Do you say you are sorry, and repent, and yet go on from day to day, just as you always went? Will you now boy your heads, and say, "Lord, I Repent," and in a little while commit the same deeds again? If you do, your repentance is worse than nothing, and shall but make your destruction yet more sure; for he that voweth to his Maker, and doth not pay, hath committed another sin, in that he hath attempted to deceive the Almighty, and lie against God that made him. Repentance, to be true, to be evangelical, must be a repentance which really affects our outward conduct.

In the next place, repentance must be entire. How many will say, "Sir, I will renounce this sin and the other; but there are certain darling lusts which I must keep and hold." O sirs, in God's name let me tell you, it is not the giving up of one sin, nor fifty sins which is true repentance; it is the solemn renunciation of every sin. If thou dost harbor one of these accursed vipers in thy heart, they repentance is but a sham. If thou dost indulge in but one lust, and dost give up every other, that one lust, like one leak in a ship, will sink thy soul.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


It's a great sermon, and he goes on to labor some other points about repentance. He says it must be immediate, hearty(from the heart), and perpetual(constant). It's not a work salvation, since he knows that his hearers are incapable of belief just as they are incapable of forsaking sin. In fact, I would argue that Spurgeons purpose in presenting such a hard Gospel is two-fold.
1) That false assurance of salvation would not be given to those who are not born again.
2) That the sinner will see the imposibility of the Gospel, and call out to God.

This is a great sermon, and probably one of the best presentations of the Gospel I have ever seen. He belabors the point of hell in the second portion of his sermon, and in the third, he tells the unbelievers that "Most seriously, I say, I do not believe any man can repent with evangelical repentance, of himself. You ask me then to what purpose is the sermon I have endeavored to preach, proving the necessity of repentance? Allow me to make the sermon of some purpose, under God, by its conclusion. Sinner! Thou art so desperately set on sin, that I have no hope thou wilt ever turn from it thyself. But, Listen! He who died on Calvary is exalted on high, 'To give repentance and remission of sin.' Dost thou this mornng feel that thou are a sinner? If so, ask of Christ to give thee repentance, for he can work repentance in thine heart by his Spirit, though thou canst not work it there thyself. Is thy heart like Iron? He can put it into the furnance of his love and make it melt. Is thy soul like the nether millstone? His grace is able to disolve it, like the ice is melted before the sun. He can make thee repent, thou thou canst not make thyself repent. If thou feelst thy need of repentance, I will not now say to thee 'repent', for I believer there are certain acts that must precede repentance. I should advice you to go to your houses and if you feel that you have sinned, and yet can not sufficiently repent of your transgression, bow your knees......


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

George Whitefield : Repentance.

(Since that was such a long post up there, I will select small excepts to show that Whitefield also taught repentance to mean a forsaking of sin.)

" You, therefore, who have been sweaeres and cursers; you, who have been harlots and drunkards; you, who have been thieves and robbers; you, who have hitherto followed the sinful pleasures and diversions of life, let me beseech you, by the mercies of God in Christ Jesus, that you would no longer continue therein, but that you would forsake your evil ways, and turn unto the Lord. For he waits to be grascious to you, he is ready, he is willing to pardon you of all your sins: But do not expect Christ to pardon you of sin when you rin to it, and will not abstain from coplying with the temptations. But if you will be persuaded to absstain from evil and choose the good, to return to the Lord and repent of your wickedness, he has promised he will abundantly pardon you, he will heal your backslidings, and will love you freely. Resolve now this day to have done with your sins FOREVER; let your old ways and you be separated; you must resolve against it, for there can be no true repentance without a resolution to forsake it.... But then take that you do not ground your resolutions on your own strength, but in the strenght of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the way, he is the truth, he is the life; without his assistance, you can do nothing, but through his grace strengthening thee, thou wilt be enabled to do all things.
I say amen to both these men................Thank you christianyouth, glad they were taught by God what repentance is.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
That's right. Then why do we flea to Christ? Because you "repented of your sins", i.e., decided to stop sinning? If so, you must be pretty disappointed that it didn't work.

Maybe you don't sin as much, and maybe you don't commit the same sins, but deciding to stop sinning didn't fix the fact that you're a sinner. So maybe, at this point, one needs to "repent" of thinking one can stop sinning, and flea to our Savior for mercy, instead. And that's what we're talking about.
At least you know what "repentance" is, to repent of your sins. No one said by quitting sin, you would be saved, but if you don't quit sinning you won't be saved for sure. If you quit sinning, you still need a Savior to forgive you of all your sins you have committed. That is why you are still "dead", even though you turned from sin.

I agree with Spurgeon and Whitefield.

BBob,
 

npetreley

New Member
Brother Bob said:
At least you know what "repentance" is, to repent of your sins. No one said by quitting sin, you would be saved, but if you don't quit sinning you won't be saved for sure. If you quit sinning, you still need a Savior to forgive you of all your sins you have committed. That is why you are still "dead", even though you turned from sin.

I agree with Spurgeon and Whitefield.

BBob,

I've repeatedly said that being convicted of your sin and renouncing it is an essential part of salvation. You will never be motivated to flea to Christ otherwise. If you haven't gotten that message by now, you're not paying attention to my posts.

But turning away from sin does not get you saved, and does not even contribute to your salvation. There is absolutely NOTHING we can contribute to our salvation.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
I've repeatedly said that being convicted of your sin and renouncing it is an essential part of salvation. You will never be motivated to flea to Christ otherwise. If you haven't gotten that message by now, you're not paying attention to my posts.

But turning away from sin does not get you saved, and does not even contribute to your salvation. There is absolutely NOTHING we can contribute to our salvation.
yea, but you will not receive the Salvation if you do not repent, is what I am saying. Jesus knows you do not want to truly love Him and serve Him, if you don't even want to repent.

BBob,
 

carrierwave~

New Member
Brother Bob said:
Amen Bro Tim;
Can you imagine the confusion they have cause by saying a man can't repent. Hogwash! Ed says they can repent, just not of sins. If I understand him right. That I am not sure of.

BBob,

Bob,

Do you imagine the confusion you are causing by telling lost people they have to stop sinning? The Gospel means "good news"--what good news is there in demanding the impossible of poor lost sinners?

1. Correct your fake definition of the word "repent" in scripture. This will bring down the whole "turn from your sins" fascade.:tonofbricks:

2. Reject the notion that repent means to "stop sinning".

II Peter 3:9 completely refutes this fake definition: Here it is in Bobology 101 folks!

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to STOP SINNING"!? (There you have it, God's promise according to Bob is "stop sinning"!) This is their savior folks!

(Note how Bob's definition of repentance inserted here causes God to be short-sighted, and completely "slack" concerning His promise!) The opposite of "perishing" is SALVATION through Jesus Christ, bob. NOT STOP SINNING.


3. Adopt the true and right definition of the word repent which is a "change of mind" which is to reject all former false saviors, any religion of "dead works" or notions of self-righteousness, by acknowleging your sinfulness, lostness, and inability to save yourself, and fall upon God's mercy through receiving the Lord Jesus Christ and His work on Calvary alone to save you. This is what it means to repent at salvation. (change your mind). You go from a lost hell-bound unbeliever to a born-again believer in Christ. Back door works are to be rejected and NOT ALLOWED. Change your definition of "repent" to God's definition. (Great Job, Ed and npetreley! You are both great defenders of God's GRACE and luv you guys in Christ Jesus!)
Carrierwave~
 

Brother Bob

New Member
Bob,

Do you imagine the confusion you are causing by telling lost people they have to stop sinning? The Gospel means "good news"--what good news is there in demanding the impossible of poor lost sinners?

1. Correct your fake definition of the word "repent" in scripture. This will bring down the whole "turn from your sins" fascade.:tonofbricks:

2. Reject the notion that repent means to "stop sinning".

II Peter 3:9 completely refutes this fake definition: Here it is in Bobology 101 folks!

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to STOP SINNING"!? (There you have it, God's promise according to Bob is "stop sinning"!) This is their savior folks!

(Note how Bob's definition of repentance inserted here causes God to be short-sighted, and completely "slack" concerning His promise!) The opposite of "perishing" is SALVATION through Jesus Christ, bob. NOT STOP SINNING.


3. Adopt the true and right definition of the word repent which is a "change of mind" which is to reject all former false saviors, any religion of "dead works" or notions of self-righteousness, by acknowleging your sinfulness, lostness, and inability to save yourself, and fall upon God's mercy through receiving the Lord Jesus Christ and His work on Calvary alone to save you. This is what it means to repent at salvation. (change your mind). You go from a lost hell-bound unbeliever to a born-again believer in Christ. Back door works are to be rejected and NOT ALLOWED. Change your definition of "repent" to God's definition. (Great Job, Ed and npetreley! You are both great defenders of God's GRACE and luv you guys in Christ Jesus!)
Carrierwave~
This is childish;

First of all Carrierwave changes the word of God and posts:
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to STOP SINNING"!?
Here is the correct scripture;
2Pe 3:9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I believe a man or woman must repent, which is to turn from sin, if they want to be saved. I am in good Company for all the noted theologians believe the same as shown below:
Spurgeon
This one is from Spurgeon's sermons, Volume II.
Turn Or Burn

I.In the first place, my hearers, let me endeavor to explain to you the nature of the turning here meant.....

Ah! My hearer, it is not thy promise of repentance that can save thee; it is not thy vow, it is not thy solemn declaration, it is not the tear that is dried more easily than the dew-drop by the sun; it is not the transient emotion of the heart, which constitues a real turning to God. There must be a true and actual abandonment of sin, and a turning unto righteousness in real act and deed in every day life. Do you say you are sorry, and repent, and yet go on from day to day, just as you always went? Will you now boy your heads, and say, "Lord, I Repent," and in a little while commit the same deeds again? If you do, your repentance is worse than nothing, and shall but make your destruction yet more sure; for he that voweth to his Maker, and doth not pay, hath committed another sin, in that he hath attempted to deceive the Almighty, and lie against God that made him. Repentance, to be true, to be evangelical, must be a repentance which really affects our outward conduct.

In the next place, repentance must be entire. How many will say, "Sir, I will renounce this sin and the other; but there are certain darling lusts which I must keep and hold." O sirs, in God's name let me tell you, it is not the giving up of one sin, nor fifty sins which is true repentance; it is the solemn renunciation of every sin. If thou dost harbor one of these accursed vipers in thy heart, they repentance is but a sham. If thou dost indulge in but one lust, and dost give up every other, that one lust, like one leak in a ship, will sink thy soul.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


It's a great sermon, and he goes on to labor some other points about repentance. He says it must be immediate, hearty(from the heart), and perpetual(constant). It's not a work salvation, since he knows that his hearers are incapable of belief just as they are incapable of forsaking sin. In fact, I would argue that Spurgeons purpose in presenting such a hard Gospel is two-fold.
1) That false assurance of salvation would not be given to those who are not born again.
2) That the sinner will see the imposibility of the Gospel, and call out to God.

This is a great sermon, and probably one of the best presentations of the Gospel I have ever seen. He belabors the point of hell in the second portion of his sermon, and in the third, he tells the unbelievers that "Most seriously, I say, I do not believe any man can repent with evangelical repentance, of himself. You ask me then to what purpose is the sermon I have endeavored to preach, proving the necessity of repentance? Allow me to make the sermon of some purpose, under God, by its conclusion. Sinner! Thou art so desperately set on sin, that I have no hope thou wilt ever turn from it thyself. But, Listen! He who died on Calvary is exalted on high, 'To give repentance and remission of sin.' Dost thou this mornng feel that thou are a sinner? If so, ask of Christ to give thee repentance, for he can work repentance in thine heart by his Spirit, though thou canst not work it there thyself. Is thy heart like Iron? He can put it into the furnance of his love and make it melt. Is thy soul like the nether millstone? His grace is able to disolve it, like the ice is melted before the sun. He can
make thee repent, thou thou canst not make thyself repent. If thou feelst thy need of repentance, I will not now say to thee 'repent', for I believer there are certain acts that must precede repentance. I should advice you to go to your houses and if you feel that you have sinned, and yet can not sufficiently repent of your transgression, bow your knees......


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

George Whitefield : Repentance.

(Since that was such a long post up there, I will select small excepts to show that Whitefield also taught repentance to mean a forsaking of sin.)

" You, therefore, who have been sweaeres and cursers; you, who have been harlots and drunkards; you, who have been thieves and robbers; you, who have hitherto followed the sinful pleasures and diversions of life, let me beseech you, by the mercies of God in Christ Jesus, t
hat you would no longer continue therein, but that you would forsake your evil ways, and turn unto the Lord. For he waits to be grascious to you, he is ready, he is willing to pardon you of all your sins: But do not expect Christ to pardon you of sin when you rin to it, and will not abstain from coplying with the temptations. But if you will be persuaded to absstain from evil and choose the good, to return to the Lord and repent of your wickedness, he has promised he will abundantly pardon you, he will heal your backslidings, and will love you freely. Resolve now this day to have done with your sins FOREVER; let your old ways and you be separated; you must resolve against it, for there can be no true repentance without a resolution to forsake it.... But then take that you do not ground your resolutions on your own strength, but in the strenght of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the way, he is the truth, he is the life; without his assistance, you can do nothing, but through his grace strengthening thee, thou wilt be enabled to do all things.


Jesus said preach the word.

Act 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I have been preaching this for 35 years and will continue as long as I live and follow in the footsteps of Calvin, Whitefield and Spurgeon, along with countless others.

The doctrine of carriewave in something "new" being brought among God's people and Jesus said:

2Jo 1:10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:

Had to post John Calvin in next post.

What do you think Christ came to call the sinners to do??? Repent
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Brother Bob

New Member
John Calvin;.
IN WHAT SENSE IS REPENTANCE THE PRIOR CONDITION OF FORGIVENESS? a Now the hatred of sin, which is the beginning of repentance, first gives us access to the knowledge of Christ, who reveals himself to none but poor and afflicted sinners, who groan, toil, are heavy-laden, hunger, thirst, and pine away with sorrow and misery b(a) [ Isaiah 61:1-3; Matthew 11:5, 28; Luke 4:18]. Accordingly, we must strive toward repentance itself, devote ourselves to it throughout life, and pursue it to the very end if we would abide in Christ. b For he came to call sinners, but it was to repentance [cf. Matthew 9:13]. He was sent to bless the unworthy, but in order that every one may turn from his wickedness [ Acts 3:26; cf. Acts 5:31]. Scripture is full of such testimonies. For this reason, when God offers forgiveness of sins, he usually requires repentance of us in turn, implying that his mercy ought to be a cause for men to repent. He says, "Do judgment and righteousness, for salvation has come near." [ Isaiah 56:1 p.] Again, "A redeemer will come to Zion, and to those in Jacob who repent of their sins." [ Isaiah 59:20.] Again, "Seek the Lord while he can be found, call upon him while he is near; let the wicked man forsake his way and the unrighteousness of his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him." [ Isaiah 55:6-7 p.] Likewise, "Turn again, and repent, that your sins may be blotted out." [ Acts 3:19.] Yet we must note that this condition is not so laid down as if our repentance were the basis of our deserving pardon, but rather, because the Lord has determined to have pity on men to the end that they may repent, he indicates in what direction men should proceed if they wish to obtain grace. Accordingly, so long as we dwell in the prison house of our body we must continually contend with the defects of our corrupt nature, indeed with our own natural soul. a Plato sometimes says that the life of a philosopher is a meditation upon death; but we may more truly say that the life of a Christian man is a continual effort and exercise in the mortification of the flesh, till it is utterly slain, and God's Spirit reigns in us. Therefore, I think he has profited greatly who has learned to be very much displeased with himself, not so as to stick fast in this mire and progress no farther, but rather to hasten to God and yearn for him in order that, having been engrafted into the life and death of Christ, he may give attention to continual repentance. b Truly, they who are held by a real loathing of sin cannot do otherwise. For no one ever hates sin unless he has previously been seized with a love of righteousness. a This thought, as it was the simplest of all, so has it seemed to me to agree best with the truth of Scripture.(

Jesus said preach the word.

Act 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I have been preaching this for 35 years and will continue as long as I live and follow in the footsteps of Calvin, Whitefield and Spurgeon, along with countless others.

The doctrine of carriewave in something "new" being brought among God's people and Jesus said:

2Jo 1:10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:

What do you think He came to call sinners to do?????????????? Repent!!!
 

Brother Bob

New Member
carrywave; 1. Correct your fake definition of the word "repent" in scripture. This will bring down the whole "turn from your sins" fascade.:tonofbricks:

2. Reject the notion that repent means to "stop sinning".
Spurgeon;
There must be a true and actual abandonment of sin, and a turning unto righteousness in real act and deed in every day life. Do you say you are sorry, and repent, and yet go on from day to day, just as you always went? Will you now boy your heads, and say, "Lord, I Repent," and in a little while commit the same deeds again? If you do, your repentance is worse than nothing, and shall but make your destruction yet more sure; for he that voweth to his Maker, and doth not pay, hath committed another sin, in that he hath attempted to deceive the Almighty, and lie against God that made him. Repentance, to be true, to be evangelical, must be a repentance which really affects our outward conduct

BBob,
 

carrierwave~

New Member
Brother Bob said:
This is childish;

First of all Carrierwave changes the word of God and posts:

Here is the correct scripture;


I believe a man or woman must repent, which is to turn from sin, if they want to be saved. I am in good Company for all the noted theologians believe the same as shown below:


Jesus said preach the word.

Act 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I have been preaching this for 35 years and will continue as long as I live and follow in the footsteps of Calvin, Whitefield and Spurgeon, along with countless others.

The doctrine of carriewave in something "new" being brought among God's people and Jesus said:

2Jo 1:10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:

Had to post John Calvin in next post.

What do you think Christ came to call the sinners to do??? Repent

Yup, Christ came to call sinners to "change their minds" and receive Christ for salvation. Remember repent does not mean to stop sinning.

NO Bob, This is your definition for repent--note what I said: "Here it is in Bobology 101" Didn't you say "repent" means to "stop sinning" Yes, you did. You have been changing the Word of God "repent" since you started.

And here is another error; exalting the words of men over the Word Of God. It doesn't matter what men have said--they are men. What matters is what God says in his Word.

"Yea, let God be true and every man a liar; (Romans 3:4)

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
(Colossians 2:8)

Spurgeon and Calvin are men, like all men; subject to error. Your good company are men, don't forget that.

Carrierwave~
 

Brother Bob

New Member
NO Bob, This is your definition for repent--note what I said: "Here it is in Bobology 101" Didn't you say "repent" means to "stop sinning" Yes, you did. You have been changing the Word of God "repent" since you started.
But its the Gospel that we been preaching for hundreds of years, until you and Ed came along.

BBob,

I will stick with Whitefield, Spurgeon and Calvin before I stick you with you and Ed.

Spurgeon;
There must be a true and actual abandonment of sin, and a turning unto righteousness in real act and deed in every day life.

carrywave, says the above is false.
 

christianyouth

New Member
carrierwave~ said:
Bob,

Do you imagine the confusion you are causing by telling lost people they have to stop sinning? The Gospel means "good news"--what good news is there in demanding the impossible of poor lost sinners?

1. Correct your fake definition of the word "repent" in scripture. This will bring down the whole "turn from your sins" fascade.:tonofbricks:

2. Reject the notion that repent means to "stop sinning".

II Peter 3:9 completely refutes this fake definition: Here it is in Bobology 101 folks!

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to STOP SINNING"!? (There you have it, God's promise according to Bob is "stop sinning"!) This is their savior folks!

(Note how Bob's definition of repentance inserted here causes God to be short-sighted, and completely "slack" concerning His promise!) The opposite of "perishing" is SALVATION through Jesus Christ, bob. NOT STOP SINNING.


3. Adopt the true and right definition of the word repent which is a "change of mind" which is to reject all former false saviors, any religion of "dead works" or notions of self-righteousness, by acknowleging your sinfulness, lostness, and inability to save yourself, and fall upon God's mercy through receiving the Lord Jesus Christ and His work on Calvary alone to save you. This is what it means to repent at salvation. (change your mind). You go from a lost hell-bound unbeliever to a born-again believer in Christ. Back door works are to be rejected and NOT ALLOWED. Change your definition of "repent" to God's definition. (Great Job, Ed and npetreley! You are both great defenders of God's GRACE and luv you guys in Christ Jesus!)
Carrierwave~

A change of mind will result in a change of behavior. When the mind is changed, behavior is changed! What we believe is what determines how we behave, and how we behave indicates what we truly believe. If I believe that the wrath of God awaits me, and that I am a vile sinner doomed for hell, it will show itself by contrition, sorrow, fear. If I believe that Christ saved me from that wrath, it will produce a thankfulness and relief, an appreciation for God's grace revealed in Christ.

Another great article that I have found in times past, written by David Cloud, shows the origins and the error of 'quick prayerism' and 'easy believism'. This article traces historic, Independent Fundamental Baptist doctrine on this issue. It's a bit exhaustive, but it's a great article.

The full title of the article : [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]FUNDAMENTAL BAPTISTS AND QUICK PRAYERISM: A FAULTY METHOD OF EVANGELISM HAS PRODUCED A CHANGE IN THE DOCTRINE OF REPENTANCE

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fundamentalbaptists.htm[/FONT]

I would like to add, nrpetrely, I am really suprised at your stance on this issue. We must recognize that repentance of sin is NOT work based, because God is the one who grants the power and changes our hearts so we WANT to give up sin. We have a new heart, we become quickened, and suddenly the sin which we once loved looses its attraction, and it's power over our life subsides. Also, Regeneration must factor into this equation. When we become regenerate, repentance is inevitable, for as Ezek 36 says(prophecy for the new covenant), we receive a new heart that is no longer opposed to God. Now we have the Holy SPirit, which makes us a new creature, and new creatures do new things.

The point is, the Gospel is a scandal and got all of the disciples killed(except John). Preaching entire repentance and forsaking of sin, like orthodox evangelical preachers have done throughout history, will result in intense persecution from the complacent church of America. Why are people not being saved in our churches? Let me rephrase it for those who insist that we cannot judge salvation, why are our converts not showing the fruits of salvation? Because we preach a heretical doctrine that says Jesus can be your Savior while Satan is your Lord. You can be a beleiver and persist in sin, say a prayer, give mental assent to him dying for you, and you will be adopted into his family.
 

carrierwave~

New Member
Brother Bob said:
Spurgeon;
There must be a true and actual abandonment of sin, and a turning unto righteousness in real act and deed in every day life. Do you say you are sorry, and repent, and yet go on from day to day, just as you always went? Will you now boy your heads, and say, "Lord, I Repent," and in a little while commit the same deeds again? If you do, your repentance is worse than nothing, and shall but make your destruction yet more sure; for he that voweth to his Maker, and doth not pay, hath committed another sin, in that he hath attempted to deceive the Almighty, and lie against God that made him. Repentance, to be true, to be evangelical, must be a repentance which really affects our outward conduct

BBob,

No, repentance "change your mind" leads to SALVATION in Christ, then comes the change.

"Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature; old things are passed away, behold all things are become new." (II Cor. 5:17)

This has always been the Bible pattern; SALVATION then new life. A personal pre-sanctification qualifying you by works is never mentioned.

I have noticed Christ is always last in "turn from your sin" theology. Christ must have first-place.

Carrierwave~
 

Brother Bob

New Member
The point is, the Gospel is a scandal and got all of the disciples killed(except John). Preaching entire repentance and forsaking of sin, like orthodox evangelical preachers have done throughout history, will result in intense persecution from the complacent church of America. Why are people not being saved in our churches? Let me rephrase it for those who insist that we cannot judge salvation, why are our converts not showing the fruits of salvation? Because we preach a heretical doctrine that says Jesus can be your Savior while Satan is your Lord. You can be a beleiver and persist in sin, say a prayer, give mental assent to him dying for you, and you will be adopted into his family.__________________
That surely is well said christianyouth.......
 
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