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carrierwave~

New Member
Brother Bob said:
If you are walking down the broad road of sin and repentance leads you in a different direction towards God, how can one not know you have to "turn from sin" and go a different way.

It is hard to overcome all the earlier theologians like Calvin, Spurgeon, Whitefield, Westminister confession of faith.

George Whitefield : Repentance.

(Since that was such a long post up there, I will select small excepts to show that Whitefield also taught repentance to mean a forsaking of sin.)

" You, therefore, who have been sweaeres and cursers; you, who have been harlots and drunkards; you, who have been thieves and robbers; you, who have hitherto followed the sinful pleasures and diversions of life, let me beseech you, by the mercies of God in Christ Jesus, that you would no longer continue therein, but that you would forsake your evil ways, and turn unto the Lord. For he waits to be grascious to you, he is ready, he is willing to pardon you of all your sins: But do not expect Christ to pardon you of sin when you rin to it, and will not abstain from coplying with the temptations. But if you will be persuaded to absstain from evil and choose the good, to return to the Lord and repent of your wickedness, he has promised he will abundantly pardon you, he will heal your backslidings, and will love you freely.

John Wesley's therapeutic understanding of salvation
Encounter, Summer 2002 by Ayers, Jeremy
<< Page 1 Continued from page 11. Previous | Next
.In "On Working Out Our Own Salvation," Wesley expands the meaning of repentance to include a host of attitudes and activities (e.g., restitution, seeking forgiveness, and almsgiving).68 This illustrates, I think, that repentance serves as the threshold, or turning point, from sinfulness to godliness

Spurgeon
This one is from Spurgeon's sermons, Volume II.
Turn Or Burn

I.In the first place, my hearers, let me endeavor to explain to you the nature of the turning here meant.....

Ah! My hearer, it is not thy promise of repentance that can save thee; it is not thy vow, it is not thy solemn declaration, it is not the tear that is dried more easily than the dew-drop by the sun; it is not the transient emotion of the heart, which constitues a real turning to God. There must be a true and actual abandonment of sin, and a turning unto righteousness in real act and deed in every day life. Do you say you are sorry, and repent, and yet go on from day to day, just as you always went? Will you now boy your heads, and say, "Lord, I Repent," and in a little while commit the same deeds again? If you do, your repentance is worse than nothing, and shall but make your destruction yet more sure; for he that voweth to his Maker, and doth not pay, hath committed another sin, in that he hath attempted to deceive the Almighty, and lie against God that made him. Repentance, to be true, to be evangelical, must be a repentance which really affects our outward conduct.

John Calvin;.
IN WHAT SENSE IS REPENTANCE THE PRIOR CONDITION OF FORGIVENESS? a Now the hatred of sin, which is the beginning of repentance, first gives us access to the knowledge of Christ, who reveals himself to none but poor and afflicted sinners, who groan, toil, are heavy-laden, hunger, thirst, and pine away with sorrow and misery b(a) [ Isaiah 61:1-3; Matthew 11:5, 28; Luke 4:18]. Accordingly, we must strive toward repentance itself,

Westminster Confession of Faith
What is repentance? Let me read to you from the Westminster Confession of Faith, a document that comes to us from the seventeenth century: "By [repentance] a sinner, out of the sight and sense not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature and righteous law of God; and upon the apprehension of his mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavoring to walk with him in all the ways of his commandments. . . yet [repentance] is of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it. As there is no sin so small that it deserves damnation; so there is no sin so great that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly" (Westminster Confession of Faith, chapter XV, sections II, III, IV).

The only proper, scriptural response of a spiritually bankrupt sinner walking down the "broad road of sin" (one sin would be sufficient, Bob) seeking salvation, would be to acknowledge his lost condition and need for a Savior and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. (Matt. 11:28, John 3:16, Romans 1:17, Romans 4:16, Romans 10:8, Gal. 3:11, Ephesian 2:8,9, Heb. 11:6, Colossians 2:13) Complete pardon and forgivness of all sins is promised through faith alone in Christ. Sanctification always comes after the Holy Spirit indwells the believer.

(Colossian 2:6) "As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in Him."

(2Timothy 2:19) "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."

Like David Cloud, your definition of repentance is not God's.

Our measuring stick of truth is the Word of God, therefore we must filter all writings and preaching of men through Holy writ. Sound doctrine comes from line upon line, precept upon precept. I am not impressed with "thus sayeth Spurgeon, Calvin, or Westminister Creed".

(Act 5:29) "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men."

Carrierwave~
 

carrierwave~

New Member
Gwen said:
"Faith and repentance are the same thing according to Greek grammatical rendering of this verse. However, David Cloud does not follow good biblical interpretation, and ends up with a false interpretation to support his false claims. If we need to be right about anything in the Bible, it is SALVATION. If we are wrong here we will be wrong everywhere else, not to mention our destination if we believe a false Gospel."

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

Amen! Good post, Carrierwave~

Thanks GWEN!
 

Brother Bob

New Member
carrierwave~ The only proper, scriptural response of a spiritually bankrupt sinner walking down the "broad road of sin" (one sin would be sufficient, Bob) seeking salvation, would be to acknowledge his lost condition and need for a Savior and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. (Matt. 11:28, John 3:16, Romans 1:17, Romans 4:16, Romans 10:8, Gal. 3:11, Ephesian 2:8,9, Heb. 11:6, Colossians 2:13) Complete pardon and forgivness of all sins is promised through faith alone in Christ. Sanctification always comes after the Holy Spirit indwells the believer.
carrierwave~
would be to acknowledge his lost condition and need for a Savior and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved
Which would be to change his ways. To know Jesus from the heart is to love Him, and to love Him is to keep his commandments.

I see you differ from Whitefield, Spurgeon, Wesley, Westminster Confession of Faith and John Calvin. There are many others, just figured this would be enough.

Peace,

BBob,
 
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carrierwave~

New Member
Brother Bob said:
carrierwave~
would be to acknowledge his lost condition and need for a Savior and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved
Which would be to change his ways. To know Jesus from the heart is to love Him, and to love Him is to keep his commandments.

I see you differ from Whitefield, Spurgeon, Wesley, Westminster Confession of Faith and John Calvin. There are many others, just figured this would be enough.

Peace,

BBob,

No Bob, you just added works. (Rom 4:5) "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."


And I see you differ with Paul, John, Peter, Abraham, Jesus Christ, the Father, the Holy Spirit, and there are many others, just figured this would be enough.

Being justified by faith we have Peace,

Carrierwave~
 
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EdSutton

New Member
Brother Bob said:
Seems to me they were Fathers to us!!
John Nelson Darby is to be considered a (spiritual) father to you?? Now that's a new one.

I guess that means you are now accepting some type of "dispensational theology", no?? :thumbsup:

Somehow, I find that a bit hard to swallow, but I really hope you are now there, in your own theology.

Gotta' get to bed. I have a Dr's appointment (routine followup by my radiologist) fairly early in the AM. So I need to catch some :sleep: :sleeping_2:

Ed
 

Brother Bob

New Member
And I see you differ with Paul, John, Peter, Abraham, Jesus Christ, the Father, the Holy Spirit, and there are many others, just figured this would be enough
Peter:Act 2:21And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John;
Jhn 10:9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Paul;
Rom 10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Peter;
Act 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter;
Act 8:22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Paul;
2Cr 7:9Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

Jesus Christ;
2Cr 7:9Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

Don't know if I can help you or not. If you will not listen to the above scriptures, John Calvin, Spurgeon, Whitefield, Wesley, Westminster Confession of faith, why would you listen to me.

BBob,
 

npetreley

New Member
Brother Bob said:
Act 8:22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

This is the only one that sounds convincing to me. But let's look at the context.

18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
20 But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”

His wickedness was not his sinful state. It was this specific attempt to buy the gift of God with money, which came OUT of his sinful heart. But that's the same type of repentance we're talking about. Repent, because you can't get the gift of God through obeying the law, by works, by being a good guy, buying it with favor, buying it with money, etc. You can't climb in some other way. You have to go through the door, which is Jesus.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
His wickedness was not his sinful state. It was this specific attempt to buy the gift of God with money, which came OUT of his sinful heart. But that's the same type of repentance we're talking about. Repent, because you can't get the gift of God through obeying the law, by works, by being a good guy, buying it with favor, buying it with money, etc. You can't climb in some other way. You have to go through the door, which is Jesus.
The question was whether you could repent or not. Could he turn from trying to buy the Holy Ghost or not.

His wickness not his sinful state, now Npet; I think you know better than that.

BBob,
 

npetreley

New Member
Brother Bob said:
The question was whether you could repent or not.

Not his sinful state, now Npet; I think you know better than that.

My point was that he was being told to repent of THIS offense or sin, not "repent of your sins and be saved".
 

Brother Bob

New Member
My point was that he was being told to repent of THIS offense or sin, not "repent of your sins and be saved".
Didn't know it was a practice of God to forgive one sin of a sinner, without receiving the atonement for it. Is this new??
 

npetreley

New Member
Brother Bob said:
Didn't know it was a practice of God to forgive one sin of a sinner, without receiving the atonement for it. Is this new??

Let's see.

22 Repent therefore of THIS your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.

THIS. THE thought (singular). Works for me.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
Quote:
22 Repent therefore of THIS your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.

THIS. THE thought (singular). Works for me

So, there is no need for the atonement, is that what you are saying, that we can get rid of our own sins??

Bedtime, good nite :sleeping_2:

Bbob,


Here we are saved by His Blood.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Here we see that we are cleansed from sin by His blood.

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

So, we are cleansed from sin and saved at the same time, If we believe and repent, we receive His blood by the Holy Ghost Baptism and cleansed from sin and saved at the same time.

We are not cleansed from our sins after Salvation, but during.

Jhn 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


BBob,
 
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tinytim

<img src =/tim2.jpg>
Has anyone else besides me emailed Sanderson to be added to his hall of saints... uh,, I mean what he calls his Blacklist....

Comeon... Spurgeons on there, along with other well known men of God...
This may be the only time to see your name beside Spurgeon this side of Heaven!!!

http://www.repentanceblacklist.com/
 

npetreley

New Member
Brother Bob said:
So, there is no need for the atonement, is that what you are saying, that we can get rid of our own sins??

I didn't say that. You're trying to take this text and compare it to salvation. It's not about salvation. The text says what it says. It's talking about a single offense - repenting from THIS wickedness, THIS thought.
 

carrierwave~

New Member
Brother Bob said:
Peter:Act 2:21And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John;
Jhn 10:9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Paul;
Rom 10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Peter;
Act 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter;
Act 8:22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Paul;
2Cr 7:9Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

Jesus Christ;
2Cr 7:9Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

Don't know if I can help you or not. If you will not listen to the above scriptures, John Calvin, Spurgeon, Whitefield, Wesley, Westminster Confession of faith, why would you listen to me.

BBob,

Bob,

I have no problem with any of those scriptures. I know how I can help you though. I would deem it imperative that you would apply the proper Bible definition for "repent" in these verses. It would clear up your misunderstanding completely here. Let's deal with each one individually. I do not see where merely quoting these verses changes the word "repent" to "turn from sins" ie, stop sinning. It does not fit. You cannot change what you won't acknowledge; that is your false definition of "repentance". By the way, I would put your thoughts on even ground with any of the preachers you mentioned--that is to your credit, however to ask me to put them or your's on the same level as God's Word is simply ridiculous.

Carrierwave~



Carrierwave~
 
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tinytim

<img src =/tim2.jpg>
tinytim said:
How can someone understand the cross, and still not repent of their sins?...

To me, belief and repentance are 2 sides of the same coin..

When I truly understood that my sins, MY sins were the reason Jesus died... I cried out, "GOD FORGIVE ME!!!"

If something hurts someone you care for, you start hating that thing that hurt them....
Sin hurt Christ.

We should hate sin. And I think every Christian here will agree with me that when a person gets saved they don't desire to sin.

That desire to remain pure and sinless, along with the sickening feeling we get when we sin, are symptoms of true repentance.

A person cannot truly believe without repentance. For when they truly believe, repentance is the by-product of belief.

And I think they happen simultaneously.

I just wanted to bump what I said earlier, because I feel like everyone has me on "ignore" It is soo lonely here....

:wavey: :tonofbricks:
 

tinytim

<img src =/tim2.jpg>
WELL THANK YOU FOR HEARING ME...
I know I am big enough for you to see....

Whew, now I know people can hear me.. now I don't have to keep shouting at the computer screen!
 

Brother Bob

New Member
I didn't say that. You're trying to take this text and compare it to salvation. It's not about salvation. The text says what it says. It's talking about a single offense - repenting from THIS wickedness, THIS thought.
Well, wickedness is sin, and you say that we can pray and be forgiven of that sin. Therefore, if we lump our sins together and pray and be forgiven, then we don't need the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from sins. We would then be clean as a whistle, no sin, like a new born baby and on our way to heaven and completely bypass Jesus and the cross.

BBob,
 

Brother Bob

New Member
Bob,

I have no problem with any of those scriptures. I know how I can help you though. I would deem it imperative that you would apply the proper Bible definition for "repent" in these verses. It would clear up your misunderstanding completely here. Let's deal with each one individually. I do not see where merely quoting these verses changes the word "repent" to "turn from sins" ie, stop sinning. It does not fit. You cannot change what you won't acknowledge; that is your false definition of "repentance". By the way, I would put your thoughts on even ground with any of the preachers you mentioned--that is to your credit, however to ask me to put them or your's on the same level as God's Word is simply ridiculous.

Carrierwave~
Impossible to "repent towards God" and not be turning from Sin, for sin is of the devil. No man can serve two masters. If you turn from the devil, you are turning from your sins.

Honestly, I don't know why you still hold to your stance, unless it is just being stubborn.

I guess we whipped this cat long enough, don't you think??

BBob,
 
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