Is your church or pastor on the list?

[christianyouth]

BBob (Quote)"But don't forget these who believe as I do and whose company I am in."

Oh, we won't forget, Bob--:

Here's your hero Calvin, who believes as you do Bob, and whose company you are in, the great "repenter" of your faith:

Calvin wrote in a letter, "Servetus lately wrote to me... He takes it upon him to come hither, if it be agreeable to me. But I am unwilling to pledge my word for his safety, for if he shall come, I shall never permit him to depart alive, provided my authority be of any avail."

"While in Geneva, Servetus made the mistake of attending church on Sunday where he was recognized and arrested. It was on Calvin's information to the magistracy that Servetus was put in prison, which fact Calvin did not deny. The trial lasted over two months and Calvin himself drew up a document of thirty-nine accusations against Servetus.On the way to the stake, Servetus besought God to pardon his accusers. On account of the use of green oak-wood, Servetus suffered for half an hour. His last words were: "Jesus Christ, thou Son of the eternal God, have mercy on me!" At twelve noon on October 27, 1553, Servetus passed into his eternal destiny. Nine years afterward, Calvin still justified his actions."

"The strongest recorded statement from Calvin on the Servetus affair is a 1561 letter from Calvin to the Marquis Paet, high chamberlain to the King of Navarre, in which he says intolerantly:

"Honour, glory, and riches shall be the reward of your pains; but above all, do not fail to rid the country of those scoundrels, who stir up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard."

"The respected Lutheran historian, Mosheim (1694-1755), judged in favor of Servetus. The historian Gibbon remarked: "he was more deeply scandalized at the single execution of Servetus than at the hecatombs which have blazed in the Auto da Fes of Spain and Portugal. The zeal of Calvin seems to have been envenomed by personal malice, and perhaps envy."
"A man who would burn another man at the stake for disagreeing with him doctrinally is not a man to be emulated or followed or admired." (History of Calvin and Calvinism by Zygmund Dobbs)

Too bad people (sheeple) don't have enough "horse sense" to reject this coward and murderer. Right, Bob?

1Jo 3:15 "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

Have a nice eternity, Bob

Carrierwave~

Brother Bob is not idolizing Calvin, Spurgeon, Whitefield, or anyone else. He is just pointing out that this definition of repentance that is going around in evangelicalism is new. The one prominent figure in evangelical history who I have found who does not believe repentance means a forsaking of sin is CHarles Finney(I like him btw).

I have a link about Charles Finney's views on repentance and he doesn't mention an abandonment of sin. He defines it as a change of mind about sin, to start seeing sin as something heinous and damning. But here is the interesting thing, he says that this change of mind will produce an abandonment of sin! So he differs on his definition that Spurgeon and he others, but they both think repentance looks the same. Abandoning sin. One says abandoning sin is evidence of repentance(Finney) and the other says abandoning sin IS repentance.

So this is by no means an exhaustive study, but I'm so happy with this thread! There has been such good information compiled and sources cited, and while the debate hasnt been so much in scripture, it has still been very fruitful. I hope we can continue to examine this issue, historically and biblically. :thumbs:

Note : I'll be back later and post the link and the Finney quotes where he says that this change of mind will produce an abandnment of sin.

 

[npetreley]

Here's your hero Calvin, who believes as you do Bob, and whose company you are in, the great "repenter" of your faith:

Calvin wrote in a letter, "Servetus lately wrote to me... He takes it upon him to come hither, if it be agreeable to me. But I am unwilling to pledge my word for his safety, for if he shall come, I shall never permit him to depart alive, provided my authority be of any avail."

Shame on you for playing the Servetus card. I could correct your history, but there's no point. It has nothing whatsoever to do with his or anyone else's theology.

 

[kubel]

In attempting to disassociate himself with works-based-repentance (which I believe is a misunderstanding of the definition of repentance), Anderson seems to desire to erase repentance entirely from salvation.

On one end, we have people (like Anderson) who apparently do not believe that repentance is necessary at all. On the other end, we have people who believe that a change of action as a result of a change of mind is necessary in order to get to the point where one could receive salvation.

I suppose I'm in the middle. I believe repentance (change of mind) is necessary (in fact, I might go as far to say it is salvation, or at least the small willingness we have to accept Christ [yes, it's not us, but Him who saves]- I mean, how else could you turn to Christ without a change of mind). I believe there are no strings attached (no works, no need to 'clean yourself up') before seeking salvation. Forgiveness is available on a whosoever will basis.

Housecleaning and repairs, in this case, is a joint effort between the landlord and the the permanent tenant. After the tenant moves in, He takes a look around at the filth, and points it out to the landlord. He doesn't take a look around before moving in, and then pick and choose where He will move into based on how clean it is inside. But after He moves in, in some, it's an immediate change. In others, it can take months- even years, to fix up the old shack. The landlord could try and try to do it on his own, but in our case, that just never works out.

I think most of the disagreement is simply different definitions/understandings of the word "repentance" (metanoeo). Anyway, interesting topic, and an interesting site. I think perhaps based on the sites extreme stand against repentance, I could probably be added to that list myself. :type:

 

[Brother Bob]

Kinda blows this scripture out of the water doesn't it?

2Cr 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

 

[npetreley]

Kinda blows this scripture out of the water doesn't it?

2Cr 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

I like the NKJV, although the two say the same thing:

10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation

Notice, however that godly sorrow produces repentance. It isn't the same thing AS repentance.

 

[Brother Bob]

agree..............Yeaaaaaaaaaa

 

[AAA]

JESUS told us to repent!

Received this in email Thursday. The Repentance Blacklist website.

I told Sanderson to add my name to the list. The Word of God tells us "...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Repentance is necessary according to Peter's declaration on the day of Pentacost.

Jesus Christ also tell us to REPENT or we will perish...LUKE 3....

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Jesus Christ also tell us to REPENT or we will perish...LUKE 3....

Interesting...

The Believer in Christ will not perish... John 3
The one who does not repent will perish... Luke 3

Sure looks like there must be a certain measure of repentance before one can even be saved.

 

[christianyouth]

Interesting...

The Believer in Christ will not perish... John 3
The one who does not repent will perish... Luke 3

Sure looks like there must be a certain measure of repentance before one can even be saved.

Wow, excellent point! Never seen that before

 

[Rick The Evangelist]

Hi there
I totally agree with you
Repentance is to gain salvation and to be truly sorry for our sins

from rick

Received this in email Thursday. The Repentance Blacklist website.

I told Sanderson to add my name to the list. The Word of God tells us "...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Repentance is necessary according to Peter's declaration on the day of Pentacost.

 

[Armchair Scholar]

We need to keep in mind what the word "repent" actually means. It means "to have a change of heart/mind" and "to turn away from and see differently." Upon being convicted by the Holy Spirit, a person who responds to the Gospel will realize that they are a sinner and that they need to change. Their spiritual eyes are opened. Only Christ can change them; they can't change themselves, but the knowing they have a need of being changed is one of the first steps to realizing the need for salvation. When they believe the Gospel, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He died for all their sin, and that they need to call upon Him to be saved, they have pretty much already had a change of mind and a turning away from their old life, realizing they need to be born again. Their heart has been softened to the Gospel message. Christ, upon saving them, begins to change them and show them how they should live, which is also where the Bible comes in to help them learn and grow.

I have seen the words "repent" and "repentance" sometimes being given the wrong definition in our culture. People misunderstand and think it means to confess all your sin in order to be saved or that you must come to Christ beating your chest and weeping and wailing in sorrow over your sin. But no one can remember every single sin they have ever committed in their life. If we had to confess every single sin it would impossible and it would be similar to the Catholic theology of confessing one's sins to the priest to receive absolution.

There definitely needs to be a change of heart and mind when a person is saved. That is the new fruit that is produced in a believer's life. If Christian fruit is absent, perhaps the person didn't really mean it when they prayed or they misunderstood the Gospel message. Although, even as Christians we still do sin.

I think it more comes down to an incorrect definition placed on the word "repentance" and the misunderstanding that goes with that.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Received this in email Thursday. The Repentance Blacklist website.

I told Sanderson to add my name to the list. The Word of God tells us "...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Repentance is necessary according to Peter's declaration on the day of Pentacost.

Amen, Brother standingfirminChrist -- Preach it! :thumbs:

//The Repentance Blacklist website.//

tee hee!

Sanderson is anti-pretribulation rapture.
But I use the KJV1611, KJV1769, KJV1873, etc.
prove the pretribulatin rapture

BTW Bro. StandingfirminChrist,
I didn't see your name there

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The site has not been updated in some time. He probably has not even read my email. I may have to write him again.

 

[tinytim]

He is supposed to add mine too.. and I did get an email back from him....
Kinda made me feeel speecial!!!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Did you use a form letter? Maybe I did not word mine correctly. lol

 

[tinytim]

He tried to nail me with an accusation that I was a false prophet because I signed it Rev. tim...

The Rev.. got him...

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Reckon I should write another with 'the Rev. Dr. Ron'?

 

[tinytim]

lololol That might get his attention...
But I bet he is reading this... so it might not...

 

[standingfirminChrist]

If he is reading this, then he'd better repent.:laugh:

 

[tinytim]

Preach it Rev Ron!!!