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Featured Israel and the Fig Tree

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Roy, Jul 31, 2019.

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  1. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You want a kingdom of sight just as the Pharisees did. Jesus corrected them (and you) saying unless a person is born again, they cannot see it. Even though it was then present.

    “But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” Luke 11:20 (NET)
     
  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Well, He was right, of course. The born-again saints will see the KOG from the inside, being part of it.
     
  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    And in the future, it'll be just THAT. You Scripture-deniers might not be part of it.
     
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You agree with the Pharisees. Jesus refuted their (your) position proving the kingdom is spiritual and a matter of faith. Not a kingdom of sight. (Whatever is not of faith is sin).
     
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It's here now but only the born again can see it.
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    WILLIAM HENDRIKSEN'S PRINCIPLES
    FOR INTERPRETING THE BOOK OF REVELATION.

    This is the first of several
    "Principles of Apocalyptic Literary Genre Bible Study."

    The first principle concerns the structure of the book.

    Principle #1: The book of Revelation
    consists of seven sections.

    They are parallel and each spans the entire new dispensation, from the first to the second coming of Christ.

    The first section concerns
    "Christ in the Midst of the Lampstands" (1:1 - 3:22).
    The lampstands represent the seven churches (1:20) which represent the church throughout the present age between
    Christ's first and second comings.

    "Thus interpreted, each individual church is, as it were, a type, not indicating one definite period in history, but describing conditions which are constantly repeated in the
    actual life of the various congregations." (Hendriksen, p.16)

    The first coming of Christ is mentioned in
    1:5 and the mention of the second coming is found in 1:7.
    ...
    The second section concerns
    "The Vision of Heaven and the Seals" (4:1 - 7:17).

    This section begins with Christ exalted on His throne opening the scroll with seven seals.

    The Lamb, having been slain, now rules in glory.
    History unfolds as a sequence of judgments visited upon mankind which concludes with a depiction of final judgment. This sections begins with events associated with Christ's
    first coming (5:5,6) and ends with events associated with Christ's second coming (6:17; 7:16,17).
    ...

    The third section concerns "The Seven Trumpets" (8:1 - 11:19). The trumpets announce judgments upon the world.

    The church (chpts 10 & 11) continues to bear witness.
    At the end of this section allusion is again made to final judgment (11:15,18).
    ...

    The fourth section concerns
    "The Persecuting Dragon" (12:1 - 14:20).

    This section encompasses the history of the world from creation to the second coming.

    Christ's first coming is summarized in 12:5.

    As Christ is now enthroned,
    the Dragon makes war against the saints,
    employing the services of the Beast (13:1),
    the second beast or false prophet (13:11,12),
    and the Whore - Babylon (14:8).

    Christ's second coming in judgment is seen at the end of this section (14:14-16).
    ...
    The fifth section concerns
    "The Seven Bowls" (15:1 - 16:21).

    This section is another description of the judgments of God which concludes with the final judgment in 16:20.
    ...

    The sixth section concerns
    "The Fall of Babylon" (17:1 - 19:21).

    The world system which prevails between the first and second comings of Christ is defeated by Christ as His return is described in 19:11-16.
    ...

    The seventh section concerns
    "The Great Consummation" (20:1 - 22:21).

    Here we meet up with the final demise of Satan.

    We are told in 20:2,3 of Satan being bound for 1,000 years - a binding which commenced in Christ's first coming (cf. Mt 12:29) and parallels Satan being cast out in 12:9.

    This 1,000 years is followed by a little season in which Satan is loosed (20:7) but then finally overthrown in 20:10.

    "The book consists of seven sections, and that these seven sections run parallel to one another.

    Each of them spans the entire dispensation from the first to the second coming of Christ.

    This period is viewed now from one aspect, now from another." (Hendriksen, p.18,19)"
     
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  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    MILLENNIUM: MILLENNIUM - JewishEncyclopedia.com
    By: Joseph Jacobs, A. Biram

    Table of Contents
    Messianic Period an Interregnum.

    Messianic Period an Interregnum.

    The reign of peace, lasting one thousand years, which will precede the Last Judgment and the future life. The concept has assumed especial importance in the Christian Church, where it is termed also “chiliasm,” designating the dominion of Jesus with the glorified and risen saints over the world for a thousand years. Chiliasm or the idea of the millennium is, nevertheless, older than the Christian Church; for the belief in a period of one thousand years at the end of time as a preliminary to the resurrection of the dead was held in Parseeism. This concept is expressed in Jewish literature in Enoch, xiii., xci. 12-17; in the apocalypse of the ten weeks, in Apoc. Baruch, xl. 3 (“And his dominion shall last forever, until the world doomed to destruction shall perish”); and in II Esdras vii. 28-29......
     
  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    WILLIAM HENDRIKSEN'S PRINCIPLES
    FOR INTERPRETING THE BOOK OF REVELATION.

    This is the second of several
    "Principles of Apocalyptic Literary Genre Bible Study."

    The Second Principle
    delves further into the structure of the book.

    Having now identified the
    seven paralleled sections, we learn further:

    Principle #2: The Seven Sections
    may be grouped into Two Major Divisions.


    The First Major Division (chpts 1-11)
    consists of three sections.

    The Second Major Division
    (chpts 12-22) consists of four sections.

    These Two Hales, of Two Major Divisions
    reveal progress in depth or intensity of Spiritual conflict.

    The First Major Division (chpts 1-11)
    reveals the Church, indwelt by Christ,
    persecuted by the world.

    But the Church is avenged, protected and victorious.

    The second major division (chpt 12-22)
    reveals the deeper spiritual background of this struggle.

    It is a conflict between the Christ and the Dragon
    in which the Christ, and therefore His Church,
    is victorious.

    In the 1st Major Half Division (chpt 1-11),
    we see the war as it is waged among men:
    that is between believers and unbelievers.

    The churches, indwelt by the living Christ,
    attacks the world as salt and light.

    The world rejects the message of the churches.

    With hatred, the world persecutes the churches.

    At the end of this division
    we see the church avenged and triumphant.

    This First Half of Revelation Division has three sections:

    (1) Christ in the midst of the lampstands (chpts1-3);

    (2) the book with the seven seals (chpts 4-7);

    and (3) the seven trumpets of judgment (chpts 8-11).

    In the Second Major Division (chpt 12-22),
    we learn of the invisible spiritual background to this war.

    The conflict among men is
    but a manifestation of the Dragon's rage
    against the Man-child, Jesus.

    As Satan has failed to defeat Jesus,
    he now turns his rage upon Jesus' followers.

    He employs the two Beasts and
    the Harlot who are, at the end, overthrown.

    This Second HALF of Revelation, Major Division
    has four sections:

    (1) The woman and the Manchild
    are persecuted by the Dragon and his helpers:
    the Beast and the Harlot (chpts 12-14);

    (2) the seven bowls of wrath (chpts 15-16);

    (3) the fall of the great Harlot
    and of the Beasts (chpts 17-19);

    and

    (4) the judgment upon the Dragon followed by the New Heaven and New Earth: New Jerusalem (chpts 20-22)."
     
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  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    To "Jump" on ahead, I will say that,

    "a thousand years", in Revelation 20,

    is equivalent to, "times, times, and a half a time",

    is equivalent to, "1260 days"

    or "42 months",

    is equivalent to, "The Acceptable Year of The Lord",

    and "Today, is The Day of Salvation",

    and, "The Church Age",
    "The Era of Jesus' churches on Earth",

    is equivalent to, "The Last Days",

    and on and on and on.

    "a thousand years", in Revelation 20,

    is equivalent to, "The Inner Advental Period",

    between Jesus' Ascension, in His First Advent

    and The Soon Coming of Jesus
    to separate the goats from the Sheep, in Final Judgment.

    "a thousand years", in Revelation 20,

    is equivalent to, our "Current New Testament Age".

    ...

    All of the events depicted in The Book of Revelation take place during The Present "1,000 year" Spiritual Reign of Jesus, from Heaven, where after The Holy Spirit …"made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead in our trespasses.

    " t is by grace you have been saved!

    6 "And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

    7 "in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.…"

    That is TODAY.

    TODAY IS "THE COMING AGES".

    The Sovereign God of The Universe has "seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,"

    AS JESUS RULES THE UNIVERSE AS KING of KINGS and LORD of LORDS, OVER HIS KINGDOM on EARTH, from HEAVEN, as we Pray to Him and Jesus Intercedes.

    ...

    The words, "a thousand years" are written to express, "a long Period of Time" that is seemingly endless; as we await The Second Coming of Jesus.

    The "thousand years" is the number of God, "10", multiplied AND MAGNIFIED BY 100.

    The Current "thousand years" we are experiencing IS NOT FOREVER, HOWEVER.

    This "long Period of Time" that is seemingly endless; as we await The Second Coming of Jesus,

    IS OF A FINITE DESIGNATION.

    THIS PRESENT ERA WILL COME to AN END.

    Matthew 13, along with The Book of Revelation, and DOZENS of OTHER SCRIPTURES,
    GIVE US THE MESSAGE FROM GOD THAT HE IS SENDING HIS SON, FOR HIS BRIDE.
     
    #109 Alan Gross, Aug 7, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    WILLIAM HENDRIKSEN'S PRINCIPLES
    FOR INTERPRETING THE BOOK OF REVELATION.

    This is the Third of several
    "Principles of Apocalyptic Literary Genre Bible Study."

    "Having seen the divisions and sections of the book,
    the third principle presents us with
    the need to appreciate the unity of the book.

    Principle #3: The book is one.

    The principles of human conduct and
    divine moral government are progressively revealed;

    the lamp stands give rise to the seals,
    the seals to the trumpets, etc.

    Although Revelation is structured in sections,
    it is nonetheless organically and systematically unified.

    Although the visions are diverse
    and the events challenging to arrange,
    the book is nevertheless written
    with a unified message to the churches.

    As we move through the several sections of the book,
    that message progressively builds
    to the arrive at the climax of Christ's return.

    Each section is united to the other sections.

    The first section (chpts 1-3)
    presents the glorified Jesus as the Head of His church.

    This same glorified Jesus
    is then found walking midst the lamp stands (the churches)
    in chpts 2 & 3.

    Chpt 1's descriptions of Jesus are repeated in chpts 2 and 3.

    (Compare 1:16 and 1:13 with 2:1;

    cf. 1:17,18 with 2:8;

    cf. 1:16 with 2:12;

    cf. 1:14,15 with 2:18;

    cf. 1:4; 1:16 with 3:1;

    cf. 1:5 & 1:18 with 3:7;

    cf. 1:5 with 3:14).

    With Christ indwelling the church,
    the church emits His light into the darkness
    of the surrounding world.

    This is a spiritual attack upon the forces of darkness
    which instigates intense conflict.

    The world responds by persecuting the church
    as it witnesses to Christ.

    This is described in by John in Jn 3:19-21.

    The world hates Christ,
    who is the light which shines from the church.

    Unable to crucify Him again since
    He is now exalted in glory, the world,
    incited by Satan's lies,
    directs its hatred at the church.

    The Christ who indwells His church (chpts 1-3)
    is hated by the world ( depicted in the first 3 chapters)

    and The Second Major Division depicts the SPIRITUAL WARFARE, between The Supernatural Evil Satan and the elements of the World, over which Satan exerts influence.

    as seen in the next section (chpt 4-7):

    the vision of heaven and the seals",

    and on the End of Revelation, within EACH of the remaining 3 sections, after chpt 4-7) (making 4 sections, in The Second Major Division, SHOWING THE CURRENT SPIRITUAL REALM of REALITY, as JESUS RULES OVER EVERY PAGE of HISTORY..
     
  11. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    When we consider the Apocalypse my position diverges from the amil teaching Alan is explaining. That teaching is held by many faithful evangelicals. 30 years ago I preached through Revelation, taking that line of interpretation using "The Momentous Event" by Grier. Further study led me to the "Partial Preterist" position as explained below.

    The amil line of interpretation, which considers the Revelation as applying down the ages is valid as an application of Scripture, rather than the interpretation.

    We need first to consider the dating of the Revelations from the internal evidence, rather than from Irenaeus.

    The opening verses make it clear that the visions concern the first readers, John's companions in tribulation - 9 in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus -
    1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

    In verse 7 John quotes Jesus in terms that refer to his Olivet prophecy of the AD 70 destruction -
    Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
    and “every eye will see him,

    even those who pierced him”;
    and all peoples on earth (land) “will mourn because of him.”
    So shall it be! Amen.

    That reads like a specific judgment on those who rejected & crucified (pierced) him. Certainly all the peoples in the land of Israel would be mourning as the Roman armies closed in. But the elect believers, seeing the warning signs (the "fig tree") were able to flee the city, delivered from the 4 winds that would devastate it.

    Mark 13:24 “But in those days, following that distress,
    “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
    25 the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
    26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth (land) to the ends of the heavens.

    28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it (he) is near, right at the door. 30 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

    In Rev. 7 we see the faithful Jews, firstfruits, guarded & sealed from the 4 winds about to destroy the city. These were safely delivered from the city.

    If we skip to Rev. 11, John is given a vision of the destruction, the temple still standing, though by then utterly corrupted, and the destruction of Jerusalem, aka Sodom & Egypt.

    Thus I believe that Revelation was written before AD 70, & concerns the destruction.
     
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  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Wow. I have never seen that view.

    It is the opposite mistake of the futurists and has nothing to support it, but there that view is.

    Wow.
     
  13. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    If ever there was a writer that totally failed by clinging to the heretical view of "Replacement Theology" it was William Hendrickson.

    He has absolutely no credibility when it came to rightly understanding the prophetic statements that bring consistency to all the OT and NT prophecy concerning the future.

    That there are believers that still embrace the "Replacement Theology" heresy is absolutely showing the blinding influence of the enemy of Grace.
     
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  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I'm about ready to write you off as a Scripture-denying apostate.

    Yes, the KOG is NOW spiritual, but Jesus is gonna physically bring it here. I showed you the Scriptures plainly saying so, & you refuse to believe them. It's not a matter of believing me; it's a matter of believing GOD, which I do.
     
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  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Actually, the Revelation was given & written in the latter part of the reign of Domitian (81-96 AD) And it's about what's coming, not about what has been.
     
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  16. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Mistake? I am simply reasoning from Scripture.

    "Replacement Theology" heresy OR "fulfilment theology? Try reading Hebrews. The Old Covenant is completely fulfilled by the New.

    Let's go back to John 1, where "St. John unfolds the mystery of the incarnation" according to the King's College Cambridge "Festival of 9 lessons and carols."

    14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
    15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”
    16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

    The promises & prophecies of the OC demand a NC fulfilment by the Messiah, the Seed of Abraham, the Son of David.

    The great first century controversy was Moses versus Christ, with the Jewish leaders persecuting the believers in Jesus. That caused many Christians to flee & further spread the Gospel. (Acts 8:4) The Jewish leaders persisted in their rejection of their Messiah, though the Gospel was graciously explained & preached.

    That controversy was effectively ended by the destruction, when Jesus came as warned them -
    Mat. 21:36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
    40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”
    41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”
    That coming, with the clouds was evident by its effect, not visible to the natural eye, as Egypt was warned -
    Isaiah 19:
    1 The burden against Egypt.
    Behold, the LORD rides on a swift cloud, And will come into Egypt;

    That coming for the destruction was not the final coming we look forward to for resurrection & judgment & the NH&NE.
     
    #116 Covenanter, Aug 8, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The Millennium is a doctrine of the Pharisees that Jesus refuted. When Jesus returns it will be on earth's last day followed by the resurrection, rapture, and destruction of the heavens and earth by fire. This will usher in the new heavens and earth.
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    There is no such thing as "Replacement Theology". It is a lie. God removed the unbelievers from Israel and grafted believing gentiles into their place (Romans 11). Only by faith will any of the broken off be grafted back into Israel.
    “And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.” Romans 11:23 (KJV 1900)
     
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  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    REPENT, & renounce the man-made garbage someone has been feeding you ! Start believing GOD'S WORD ! The time is NOW, before it becomes dogma for you, & you are lost for adding & subtracting from the Revelation ! !

    Rev. 22:
    18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


    By denying the plain verses that say Jesus is returnint to earth & will reign ON EARTH with His saints for 1K years, you're subtracting from it. And by adding the garbage that the heavens & earth will be destroyed at His return is adding to it. I hope you see for yourself that God has set forth a rather severe penalty for messing with His Revelation.

    The stuff you've been posting is utter nonsense, and is in violation of God's words as set forth in Rev. 22:18-19 above ! !
     
  20. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I agree with MOST of this post, except God wasn't speaking of Israel, but His Church, whichwas meant for ISRAEL FIRST. God "grafted in" gentiles, but He stands ready to add any Jew back in who comes to Jesus.
     
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