Israel?

[Darrell C]

Where in the NT does he say this?

I gave you the Scripture, lol.

And once again you ignore them.

“It is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all those who are descended from Israel are truly Israel,” (Romans 9:6) (NET)

Let me explain something to you Dave: "not all" isn't the same as...none. The corollary of "Not all..." is "Some who are descended are."

You engage in popular pulpit mythology that teaches there is only "Spiritual Israel" anymore, when I have just given you Scripture that makes your mythology that which is void and empty.

Go back and look at the Scripture given you, it explains it quite clearly. I know this doesn't jibe with the doctrines of men you have embraced, but, it is irrefutable, National Israel still has a role to play, and will play that role in not only the Tribulation, but in the Millennial Kingdom.


God bless.

 

[1689Dave]

I gave you the Scripture, lol.

And once again you ignore them.

I gave you scripture that refutes your interpretation of the scriptures you claim support your view..

 

[Darrell C]

I gave you scripture that refutes your interpretation of the scriptures you claim support your view..

I must have missed that. You sure this wasn't just an experience you had, though it didn't really happen?


God bless.

 

[1689Dave]

I must have missed that. You sure this wasn't just an experience you had, though it didn't really happen?

Experience from decades of study.

 

[Darrell C]

I gave you scripture that refutes your interpretation of the scriptures you claim support your view..

Your Scripture:

“It is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all those who are descended from Israel are truly Israel,” (Romans 9:6) (NET)

Mine, with accompanying commentary to show why they are given, and how they are relevant to the response:

God says they are:


Genesis 17:8
King James Version (KJV)

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.


And Paul makes it clear God has not forgotten His Promises to physical Israel:


Romans 11
King James Version (KJV)

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


If you read Chapters 9 and 10 you will see that in view is National Israel:


Romans 9
King James Version (KJV)

1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.


Romans 10
King James Version (KJV)

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.


He's not talking about "spiritual Israel." He is speaking about National Israel.

And National Israel will one day be saved:


Romans 11:25-27
King James Version (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


"All Israel" will be saved because all who are unbelieving will be destroyed in the Tribulation and the Sheep and Goat Judgment.

Replacement theology is bogus, Israel still has a part to play.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Experience from decades of study.

Based on your views, that is not something I suggest you brag about.




God bless.

 

[1689Dave]

Based on your views, that is not something I suggest you brag about.

We must use different theological textbooks. Mine are mostly Baptist (1600s) and Reformed. If you can point out where I differ from them in any point, I would welcome the correction.

 

[1689Dave]

Your Scripture:

Ask ANY Calvinistic Baptist or Reformed, and you'll find they are no different from what they use in proving the same point.

 

[Darrell C]

We must use different theological textbooks. Mine are mostly Baptist (1600s) and Reformed. If you can point out where I differ from them in any point, I would welcome the correction.

I have one Theological Text Book, that is the Word of God, and I have been showing you how you differ from that on many points.


God bless.

 

[1689Dave]

I have one Theological Text Book, that is the Word of God, and I have been showing you how you differ from that on many points.

But..............God placed teachers in the Church. And there is safety in a multitude of counselors.

 

[Darrell C]

Ask ANY Calvinistic Baptist or Reformed, and you'll find they are no different from what they use in proving the same point.

Well, I am not a Calvinistic Baptist or a Reformed Baptist, hence I do not embrace the errors of either, but regularly point out those errors in most of the threads I am involved in.

I view the Reformers as being in error on some pretty important issues, and at the end of the day, they basically create an equivalent load of horse feathers as the Catholics do.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

But..............God placed teachers in the Church. And there is safety in a multitude of counselors.

Oh, so the unity among the college professors today provide a safe haven of instruction for the youth of America?

It's funny, because when we look at the Prophets of God, we don't see them "in numbers." We see them primarily solitary individuals speaking out against the multitude.

This is what "experience" will get you, my friend. Embracing what you think is sound, even though it is contrary to what the Word of God teaches and examples.


God bless.

 

[kyredneck]

Replacement theology is bogus

11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 8

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; This was from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Mt 21

If that's not being replaced then I guess I don't know the meaning of the word.

 

[1689Dave]

Well, I am not a Calvinistic Baptist or a Reformed Baptist, hence I do not embrace the errors of either, but regularly point out those errors in most of the threads I am involved in.

I view the Reformers as being in error on some pretty important issues, and at the end of the day, they basically create an equivalent load of horse feathers as the Catholics do.

Do you listen to sermons? How is that different from reading books? Did your preacher read books? Earn a degree?

 

[Darrell C]

But..............God placed teachers in the Church. And there is safety in a multitude of counselors.

And those teachers are held accountable by the test of Scripture.


God bless.

 

[1689Dave]

Oh, so the unity among the college professors today provide a safe haven of instruction for the youth of America?

It's funny, because when we look at the Prophets of God, we don't see them "in numbers." We see them primarily solitary individuals speaking out against the multitude.

This is what "experience" will get you, my friend. Embracing what you think is sound, even though it is contrary to what the Word of God teaches and examples.


God bless.

Again, did you ever listen to a sermon you agree with? It is no different from reading a book.

 

[1689Dave]

And those teachers are held accountable by the test of Scripture.

But we too are held accountable for rejecting God's word brought to us in books and sermons alike.

 

[Darrell C]

11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 8

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; This was from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Mt 21

If that's not being replaced then I guess I don't know the meaning of the word.

I agree, you don't know the meaning of the Word.

I will give you the same presentation already given, address that:


God says they are:


Genesis 17:8
King James Version (KJV)

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.


And Paul makes it clear God has not forgotten His Promises to physical Israel:


Romans 11
King James Version (KJV)

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


If you read Chapters 9 and 10 you will see that in view is National Israel:


Romans 9
King James Version (KJV)

1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.


Romans 10
King James Version (KJV)

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.


He's not talking about "spiritual Israel." He is speaking about National Israel.

And National Israel will one day be saved:


Romans 11:25-27
King James Version (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


"All Israel" will be saved because all who are unbelieving will be destroyed in the Tribulation and the Sheep and Goat Judgment.


I'm not interested in playing Bible Pong.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Do you listen to sermons?

All the time.

How is that different from reading books?

Well, for one, when we read Scripture we are allowing God to work in our hearts, to illuminate the Word to us.

Most people do not actually ahve a faith they can call their own, their faith is on loan from their Pastor.

Did your preacher read books?

He did, and does. As a matter of fact he recommended a book as I was leaving Sunday.

Earn a degree?

I am sure he did, though I can't verify that specifically. But isn't that what people expect? For those in leadership to have a degree? lol

Why is it that a man being indoctrinated and then given a piece of paper stating he has sufficiently bowed to that indoctrination makes one a spokesman for Christ?

I know of only one Scholar among the Apostles, that was Paul. The rest were pretty ordinary guys, with the exception of one thing: they believed God would do what He said He would do.

Again, did you ever listen to a sermon you agree with?

In total? Not in quite some time. There is always going to be something in every sermon we can criticize (and I don't mean criticism in a bad way).

It is no different from reading a book.

There is a big difference between reading and listening. When we read, we engage our mind in a more active manner. Secondly, as I said, we allow God to work in our hearts rather than imposing the bias all preachers place into their sermons.

Lastly, while a sermon may have the Word f God in it...it is not the Word of God.

Big difference.

But we too are held accountable for rejecting God's word brought to us in books and sermons alike.

Apparently you don't believe that. I have just given you Scripture that makes it clear that God has not cast away His people and that they will be brought into relationship with Him under the promised New Covenant...

...and you have rejected that Word.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

But..............God placed teachers in the Church. And there is safety in a multitude of counselors.

Dave, I just want to say you are taking my chain yanking in very good form, so I commend you for that.




God bless.