Israel

[Rolfe]

I take it that if someone killed someone in your family you would want to kill them and their family?

I believe that Judith was talking about defense. Not vengeance.

 

[Revmitchell]

Anything less than what Israel is doing is no defense. In fact they are showing much restraint. The point of a good defense is to end the agression.

 

[Revmitchell]

No Joke. If you come at my children with a club or a knife I have no problem shooting you with a really big shotgun. If you lob rockets into my country I have no problem dropping a nuclear bomb on you. The idea is not to play at another's level. The idea is to end the attack and make sure it never happens again.

That is right. Where is the like button? :thumbs:

 

[RLBosley]

Hamas is not a victim. They are in fact terrorists and should be treated as such. They do not desire peace or recociliation. What they want is the whole sale destruction of all Jews. Period.

OK. That doesn't change the fact that Israel is wrong for bombing civilians. I am not trying to defend Hamas nor have I ever called them a victim. Stop trying to put word in my mouth.

RLB: "Don't you see that that it never ends if violence is answered with violence? That was Jesus point, at least partially, in the garden."

With this "defense"(???), after WWII, the world would be divided between speaking Japanese or German.

Is that what you would have called a "CHRISTIAN RESPONSE"???

Just for the record, how far would an intruder in your home have to go in torturing your wife/husband or kids have to go for you to decide to retaliate??

Not a trick question; my interpretation is that all you would be willing to do is keep him from hurting your family and then let him go. Is my understanding correct????

For me the only acceptable END to such an affair would be that the intruder be TOTALLY neutralized, and we are now waiting for the police to come & arrest him.

TOTALLY NEUTRALIZED, is defined as him being 100% submissive to me, and he doesn't so much as sneeze w/o my permission. Should he continue to try to harm me/family, the "total neutralizing" may go so far as a bullet in the heart ------- his choice!!!

Remember that Jesus also told his disciples to "buy a sword" before they went on a journey. I seriously doubt the sword was of keeping their beards trimmed!?!?

Are you actually wanting an answer or are you just ranting? It looks like an emotional rant to me. Let's start a new thread if you want to talk, since that would be well beyond the bounds of this thread's OP. OK?

Jesus never had war in view.

False.

Violence never ends when people let them be treated violently. Fact is there are evil people in the world that only want violence(Hamas). If you want to end it then you must be stronger than them and put a stop to it and let them know it will not be tolerated. Period.

Anything else is just garbage.

Fact is Jesus and the apostles tell us exactly how to deal with these evil people. And the solution isn't to kill them.

Immoral aggression like the U.S. response to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor?

Yes. I would say that the nuclear attacks on civilians, which was the culmination of our response was certainly immoral. So was the firebombing that actually killed more civilians.

The "aggression" of Israel is defensive. It is defensive because it is only done after they were attacked and they are defedning themselves. Liberals have good intentions but their squirrly ideas fail in practice.

Again, anyone who disagrees is "liberal." Do you even know what the term means? It seems you think it only means "someone I think is wrong."

Do you really believe that this is an appropriate response to the rocket attacks?

I am curious. What would you consider an appropriate defense?

I really don't know exactly. I hate war and violence. But again, the state is given the sword. I just don't see this massive bombing campaign as being justified.

 

[RLBosley]

That is right. Where is the like button? :thumbs:

That is not right. That is ungodly. Vengeance is God's alone.

 

[Crabtownboy]

No Joke. If you come at my children with a club or a knife I have no problem shooting you with a really big shotgun. If you lob rockets into my country I have no problem dropping a nuclear bomb on you. The idea is not to play at another's level. The idea is to end the attack and make sure it never happens again.

Do you feel that Palestinian parents should respond the same way as you say you world?

 

[pinoybaptist]

My heart and prayers are with Israel, but Israel holds some responsibility in all this. Israel has for years been playing this tick for tat game with these people. It is time for them to wipe them off the map. For every rocket that Hamas launches Israel should launch 100 along with carpet bombing the area and then occupy it and keep out any new terrorists.
Will there be civilian causalities, YES, but that is part of war. Yes do all you can within reason to limit civilian casualties but not at the expense of your own people or not winning the war in a swift manner.

Nuke them, eh ? Do you really think today's generations of Israel still have Jehovah's blessings their ancestors had in the OT? THAT Israel is gone. Genocide from either side is unacceptable.

 

[Gina B]

Not all there agree with Hamas, and simply wish for peace. They want nothing to do with such violence. Why would you want Israel to rise up against all there, rather than show the restraint they are showing?
The United States is well on her way to being under the rule of oppressive government. I would hope those in other countries would not want my children, or yours, killed because of any evil actions of a government we do not control. That is a terrible thought.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Hagee-ism, I guess, Gina.

 

[Judith]

I am really sorry to hear that.

Again, I don't expect a secular nation like Israel to respond in a Christian way. They aren't Christian and nations are permitted to bear the sword. But do you really think that using a nuclear weapon, to indiscriminately kill combatants and civilians alike, including children like your own, is consistent with the gospel?

I take it that if someone killed someone in your family you would want to kill them and their family?

Don't you see that that it never ends if violence is answered with violence? That was Jesus point, at least partially, in the garden.

I have never met liberal that could argue their case without twisting what the other says and you are no different. I never mentioned revenge. I was clearly stating what I would do if under aggression.
In the case of Israel and war there are always civilians causalities. I am not suggesting that they should be targeted, but neither am I suggesting that the enemy be spared because the civilians might be caught up in the shooting. The area where Hamas is has very few if any that are not supporting Hamas so I say they are not civilians, but even if they are you have to stop those who attack you ansd Hamas has made it clear they intend on annialiation.
Let me ask you a question. In the OT God told Israel to kill every human being including children in a particular war. Was God wrong and would you obey or speak against Him if you were alive during that time?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

If that's what you think then you are so off base it isn't even funny. There was nothing "self-pious" in my post and I never changed my position "when prodded." Christians are wrong to support this bombing campaign. That has been my position from the start.

Yet you will not give us an appropriate response. All you will say is we forgot Jesus' words.

Nonsense and you know it.

I stand by it, you better believe that.

What does prophecy have to do with anything? I never brought it up.

It means my feelings about this do not come from Revelation. They come from a sovereign nation within it's rights.

Never said they weren't better at killing people. That much is obvious.



No. Just because I don't have a solution, doesn't mean I shouldn't point out their error and our own sin in supporting the bloodshed. Also I never said, "you guys" anything.

Yelling about something and offering no solution is more like whining.

Yes escalating the violence. I would say a multiday bombing campaign that has killed about 50 civilians is escalation of violence, is it not?

Like I said, they don't play around.

I don't understand; the post clearly showed I was quoting RevMitchell twice.

It was in a quote with our conversation. I thought it was to me. No big deal.

Also you still haven't given any response as to why you implied I am lying or even what I'm supposedly lying about. That just baffles me.

See above.

 

[Judith]

Nuke them, eh ? Do you really think today's generations of Israel still have Jehovah's blessings their ancestors had in the OT? THAT Israel is gone. Genocide from either side is unacceptable.

God is the same today yesterday and tomorrow. Whether they are nuked, shot or just bombed with conventual bombs the result it the same. The nuke is just quicker and yes I still believe that the Jews are under his protection and blessing. Not saved, but yes under His blessing and protection.

 

[Judith]

Do you feel that Palestinian parents should respond the same way as you say you world?

The Palestinians are the aggressors and if they had nukes you can bet they would wipe out Israel. They are using everything they have. Israel needs to wake up and put an end to being attacked by those people.

Let me ask you the same question I asked another. If you live during the OT times and God told you to wipe out a nation including the children and animals like He did with Israel would you obey?

 

[KJVBaptistMan]

The Israelis or more accurately, the Khazars are reaping the vengeance of the Lord, for what they did to my Messiah.

Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. -- (Romans 12:19 KJV)

Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. ----- (Matthew 27:25 KJV)

 

[Judith]

The Israelis or more accurately, the Khazars are reaping the vengeance of the Lord, for what they did to my Messiah.

Khazars, no, Jews yes but they will be restored to the Lord. That does not mean they are not to fight off their enemies using any means necessary. I would also remind you that it was gentiles that ordered His death and carried it out.

 

[Rolfe]

The Israelis or more accurately, the Khazars are reaping the vengeance of the Lord, for what they did to my Messiah.

The Khazars were north of Israel.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

:tear:

I saw today that over 100 people are already dead due to the Israeli strikes. About 1/4 of which are children.

And people wonder where terrorists come from??

Israel tells them what they are going to bomb prior to them bombing it......the targets are essentually Hamas terrorists homes. Why anyone would choose to be around a targeted bomb target is beyond me.....unless they want to commit suicide

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

:tear:

I saw today that over 100 people are already dead due to the Israeli strikes. About 1/4 of which are children.

And people wonder where terrorists come from??

Israel tells them what they are going to bomb prior to them bombing it......the targets are essentually Hamas terrorists homes. Why anyone would choose to be around a targeted bomb target is beyond me.....unless they want to commit suicide

 

[RLBosley]

I have never met liberal that could argue their case without twisting what the other says and you are no different. I never mentioned revenge. I was clearly stating what I would do if under aggression.

What is it with calling people "liberal?" I really don't understand. Especially since I'm probably among the most theologically conservative people on this board, far from liberal at the very least, same with politics. I guess by liberal you just meant "Someone I disagree with." Regardless, I twisted nothing. Lobbing nuclear weapons at someone who hit you with rockets certainly is vengeance. I would also argue that self-defense can be understood as a form of vengeance as well. Also, you never answered my questions.

In the case of Israel and war there are always civilians causalities. I am not suggesting that they should be targeted, but neither am I suggesting that the enemy be spared because the civilians might be caught up in the shooting. The area where Hamas is has very few if any that are not supporting Hamas so I say they are not civilians, but even if they are you have to stop those who attack you ansd Hamas has made it clear they intend on annialiation.

So they shouldn't target civilians... unless they get in the way, then eh no big deal? Am I reading that correctly? What evidence do you have that there are "very few" in that area that are not supporting Hamas? And certain people in Israel have made it plain that they intend on the total annihilation of Palestinians. Tell me you at least think that is wrong!?

Let me ask you a question. In the OT God told Israel to kill every human being including children in a particular war. Was God wrong and would you obey or speak against Him if you were alive during that time?

That is not applicable here. This Israel is not that Israel. That Covenant is no longer in existence. War was permitted and even required a couple times under the Old Covenant, we are under the New and do not have that option.

 

[RLBosley]

Yet you will not give us an appropriate response. All you will say is we forgot Jesus' words.

And I think we have. Collectively the American church is far too blood thirsty and ignores the clear instruction of scripture to seek and promote peace. Do you disagree?

I stand by it, you better believe that.

OK. It's still wrong. Being a peacemaker is not killing all your enemies. The same Jesus also said "love you enemies" and "do good to those who hate you."

It means my feelings about this do not come from Revelation. They come from a sovereign nation within it's rights.

OK. I still don't get it. No one, especially me, brought that up. I never accused you of it or anything. You were the first and only person I've seen bring up prophecy.

It was in a quote with our conversation. I thought it was to me. No big deal.

See above.

No worries, all is forgiven.