It takes more than belief in Jesus's promise for eternal life to be saved?

[HungryInherit]

A lot of posters in Amy's (closed) thread, EWF in particular seem to claim a person also needs to "show" a change in character or conversion. It is clear in John that belief in Jesus for eternal life is all that is necessary and you should be absolutely sure the moment that you believe that. Can someone explain, with scripture, why repentance, or changing your character are required for eternal life?

 

[HungryInherit]

Earth Wind & Fire posted this. Seems like he posted this on his throne from Rome. Looks like works are needed and Christ alone isn't enough. I thought this was baptist discussion?

Not really..... His 2nd example makes an argument for Carnal Christians. A Saved Person does indeed need to take serious issue with their sins. They must really take stock of their sins & make adjustments.....Christian life is a commitment, a change of heart, developing a conscience so your no longer a back sapping, lying bush whacker.... so somewhere in your walk you will need to recognize your sins, grieve over them & stop doing them....otherwise you really aren't a Christian....and your biggest sin is "the sin of unbelief" if truth be known.

 

[Greektim]

A lot of posters in Amy's (closed) thread, EWF in particular seem to claim a person also needs to "show" a change in character or conversion. It is clear in John that belief in Jesus for eternal life is all that is necessary and you should be absolutely sure the moment that you believe that. Can someone explain, with scripture, why repentance, or changing your character are required for eternal life?

What do we learn in James 2:14ff.? Faith w/out works is dead. So to say that "belief in Jesus's [sic] promise for eternal life to be saved" seems merely to acknowledge a theological truth (one not state well I might add). I think faith has to be more than mental assent or acknowledgment of a truth. There has to be repentance... a hatred and thus turning from sin that shows that it is a living, vibrant faith. After all, if we are in Christ, we are a new creation and old things have passed away. Jesus demanded nothing less. He sought disciples not believers. Why would we settle for less?

 

[HankD]

A lot of posters in Amy's (closed) thread, EWF in particular seem to claim a person also needs to "show" a change in character or conversion. It is clear in John that belief in Jesus for eternal life is all that is necessary and you should be absolutely sure the moment that you believe that. Can someone explain, with scripture, why repentance, or changing your character are required for eternal life?

But even a "show" is no gaurantee.

Matthew 7

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

HankD​

 

[Herald]

2 Corinthians 7:10 For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

 

[Dr. Bob]

Demons "believe" . .and tremble.

Sometimes the Bible uses metonymy or synecdoche as "short cuts" in language.

Like "believe" or "faith". Is that ALL that is involved in salvation or is it a part that represents the whole package?

We condemn "Christians" (there's one of those "short cut" words!) who will pull a verse or a phrase and say THAT IS 100% of the Bible's teaching on the subject. Catholics do this on Mary; cruisematics do it on the holy Spirit gifts.

Put ALL the Word of God together, and we find "believe" is just one part of the wonderful doctrine of salvation. But don't think it is the ONLY thing. It the "package" we call SALVATION BY GRACE is regeneration, reconciliation, redemption, repentance, election, assurance, conversion, et al - each playing a particular role in the whole concept!

 

[Mexdeaf]

^^^^:thumbs::thumbsup:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Earth Wind & Fire posted this. Seems like he posted this on his throne from Rome. Looks like works are needed and Christ alone isn't enough. I thought this was baptist discussion?

Not really..... His 2nd example makes an argument for Carnal Christians. A Saved Person does indeed need to take serious issue with their sins. They must really take stock of their sins & make adjustments.....Christian life is a commitment, a change of heart, developing a conscience so your no longer a back sapping, lying bush whacker.... so somewhere in your walk you will need to recognize your sins, grieve over them & stop doing them....otherwise you really aren't a Christian....and your biggest sin is "the sin of unbelief" if truth be known.

Whatever post & thread friend you are pulling this from, you are sorely misinformed. I would never state that repentance & changing your life & turning to God are not required in a Christians walk (that would be absurd). Also FYI & the record, I do NOT believe in "Carnal Christians" as legitimate Christians (Some may but NOT ME)....and that subject matter is very critical to my own Salvation Story.

So are you clear on that now?

 

[HungryInherit]

Whatever post & thread friend you are pulling this from, you are sorely misinformed. I would never state that repentance & changing your life & turning to God are not required in a Christians walk (that would be absurd). Also FYI & the record, I do NOT believe in "Carnal Christians" as legitimate Christians (Some may but NOT ME)....and that subject matter is very critical to my own Salvation Story.

So are you clear on that now?

It is a copy and paste from Amy's thread on page 4. I don't think you're clear in what I'm saying. I'm saying you DO say that it is required. And salvaion isn't an ongoing story. It's a one time deal that is sealed by belief in Christ.
People can package it up any way they like to but your idea of salvation IS NOT faith alone, in Christ alone. Some people can't escape the brain washing they received in Catholic Church.
I wish you luck in your on going story of salvation, but the truth is your salvation is cemented and you're saved by faith.

 

[HungryInherit]

Demons "believe" . .and tremble.

Sometimes the Bible uses metonymy or synecdoche as "short cuts" in language.

Like "believe" or "faith". Is that ALL that is involved in salvation or is it a part that represents the whole package?

We condemn "Christians" (there's one of those "short cut" words!) who will pull a verse or a phrase and say THAT IS 100% of the Bible's teaching on the subject. Catholics do this on Mary; cruisematics do it on the holy Spirit gifts.

Put ALL the Word of God together, and we find "believe" is just one part of the wonderful doctrine of salvation. But don't think it is the ONLY thing. It the "package" we call SALVATION BY GRACE is regeneration, reconciliation, redemption, repentance, election, assurance, conversion, et al - each playing a particular role in the whole concept!

If a person on an island only had available the gospel of John and read John 3:16-17 and believed it, are they not saved? How much of the package deal did the thief on the cross work out?

 

[HungryInherit]

But even a "show" is no gaurantee.

Matthew 7

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

HankD​

Thanks for the post Hank. I've always understood this passage is those who trusted their works to save them. Am I completely mistaken? I'm sure many works are done in Jesus name, and we've all seen fortune tellers on TV or on the streets who claim to be followers of Jesus.

 

[Greektim]

If a person on an island only had available the gospel of John and read John 3:16-17 and believed it, are they not saved? How much of the package deal did the thief on the cross work out?

No Jn 3:16-17 is not enough b/c that text presuppose much knowledge (i.e. does "believe in Jesus" simply mean believing in a person named Jesus??? NO! It is assuming the entirety of the gospel; but w/out that knowledge, then you cannot do what Jn 3:16 is asking thus it is not enough). Take passages that say (like Rom 10) that you must believe Jesus is Lord... that is absent in Jn 3:16. Plus, the thief probably had a better understanding of these concepts than you or I... after all, he knew (eyewitness) enough about Jesus' story to know he was innocent and dying for the sins of others (also absent in Jn 3:16).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It is a copy and paste from Amy's thread on page 4. I don't think you're clear in what I'm saying. I'm saying you DO say that it is required. And salvaion isn't an ongoing story. It's a one time deal that is sealed by belief in Christ.
People can package it up any way they like to but your idea of salvation IS NOT faith alone, in Christ alone. Some people can't escape the brain washing they received in Catholic Church.
I wish you luck in your on going story of salvation, but the truth is your salvation is cemented and you're saved by faith.

[crude language snipped - reminder to watch filthy mouths not fitting our fellowship]

Brother ....take note of this as do I, "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak & slow to become angry"....:smilewinkgrin:

See James 2:14-20

 

[Zaac]

A lot of posters in Amy's (closed) thread, EWF in particular seem to claim a person also needs to "show" a change in character or conversion. It is clear in John that belief in Jesus for eternal life is all that is necessary and you should be absolutely sure the moment that you believe that. Can someone explain, with scripture, why repentance, or changing your character are required for eternal life?

I'm pretty sure upon first glance that EWF was NOT saying do this in addition to grace by faith but rather that a person saved WILL show proof of that change. The Holy Spirit can't take up residence and there not be proof that It's there.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm pretty sure upon first glance that EWF was NOT saying do this in addition to grace by faith but rather that a person saved WILL show proof of that change. The Holy Spirit can't take up residence and there not be proof that It's there.

Either that Zaac, or I am a brained washed Catholic.....you decide. :laugh:

 

[Zaac]

Demons "believe" . .and tremble.

Sometimes the Bible uses metonymy or synecdoche as "short cuts" in language.

Like "believe" or "faith". Is that ALL that is involved in salvation or is it a part that represents the whole package?

We condemn "Christians" (there's one of those "short cut" words!) who will pull a verse or a phrase and say THAT IS 100% of the Bible's teaching on the subject. Catholics do this on Mary; cruisematics do it on the holy Spirit gifts.

Put ALL the Word of God together, and we find "believe" is just one part of the wonderful doctrine of salvation. But don't think it is the ONLY thing. It the "package" we call SALVATION BY GRACE is regeneration, reconciliation, redemption, repentance, election, assurance, conversion, et al - each playing a particular role in the whole concept!

VERY well said!:applause:

True BELIEF on Jesus Christ will send you into confession and repentance because you see just how wretched you are in comparison to His HOLINESS.

That BELIEF is simple but pregnant with His divineness, His greatness, His Holiness, His righteousness.

True belief leavs you naked and exposed before a Holy God.
True belief will make you shout and cry out Lord forgive me for I have sinned.
True belief will take you to the foot of the Cross and right on into His loving arms!!!

 

[HankD]

Thanks for the post Hank. I've always understood this passage is those who trusted their works to save them. Am I completely mistaken? I'm sure many works are done in Jesus name, and we've all seen fortune tellers on TV or on the streets who claim to be followers of Jesus.

Jesus sent them away so their claim of "wonderful works" seems to have been their only recourse. Obviously they had done things "in His name".

Perhaps they were associating themselves with a certain local church of which they were members (but not saved) - the tares of Matthew 13?

Although they called Him Lord Lord, one thing they did not do when the idictment came was to plead for mercy.

It seems that in this encounter they were still alive after the flesh, if so, it was not too late.

Also, He called them workers of iniquity (as opposed to their life being typified by resultant fruit of the Spirit - "thou good and faithful servant").


HankD

 

[Iconoclast]

30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

 

[JohnnyReb]

I think if a atheist was stranded with nothing but a bible on a deserted island and he wanted to get saved.....faith alone would do it. In his situation faith would be all he could do. It would be impossible to get Baptized and not a whole lot to repent from when stranded alone on a island. I think God would have mercy and be rejoiced that this lost soul found Christ and believed.

For the rest of us who aren't in a slim to none situation we must follow the commands of Christ. Repent and be baptized. Learn to love and be as close to Christ as we can. After all the 2 greatest commandments are to love God and love your neigbor. If you confess with thy mouth that Jesus is Lord you are saved. A saved person has orders to follow as stated above. A truly saved person will follow these orders with eagerness to please God

 

[Yeshua1]

A lot of posters in Amy's (closed) thread, EWF in particular seem to claim a person also needs to "show" a change in character or conversion. It is clear in John that belief in Jesus for eternal life is all that is necessary and you should be absolutely sure the moment that you believe that. Can someone explain, with scripture, why repentance, or changing your character are required for eternal life?

Both faith/repentence are gifts from God, they are flip sides of the same coin, as repenting means that Godconviction in and on us convices us that we are sinners, and that we cannot earn salvation by own merits, and so receive Christ thru faith!

Must though have real faith, which would mean that we are new creatures in Jesus, being born again, and would thus have the Holy spirit indwelling us, and we are fully justified at moment jesus saves us, but also start the sauctification process, which ends when we are fully sauctified at resurrection of the Body!

problem is that too many confuse justification with sauctification, and too many fail to rrealise that faith in jesus will also have evidence of new life, there will be some change in a sinnrs thoughts/deeds/actions, something to point to salvation!

So we are indeed saved by grace thru faith alone, but once saved, will start process to becoming more like Jesus!