It's ALL from HIM!

[Winman]

God doesn't need anything Winman.

God doesn't have to need something to want it. Nor does he have to need something to command it.

Let me say it again:

We preach not for men but for God. You got it yet?

I understand perfectly what you are saying, but it is not consistent with what you say you believe. If salvation is 100% of God and does not require man's participation, then why are you preaching the gospel? You really should just meet together and praise God, and the leave the saving of men to him.

You won't agree, but what I am saying makes perfect sense if your doctrine is true.

 

[Luke2427]

What doesn't make sense is me disagreeing with your "plausible" theory there is another way for infants to be saved but by grace through faith, then you agreeing with my disagreement.

I simply said that Christ alone is the way to heaven for any human being.

That God needs people to put faith in Christ in order for God to be able to apply the merits of Christ to them for their salvation is your doctrine.

I think, btw, that is God's normative way. But I do not think that God is restricted to that.

God can save howsoever he chooses, which includes saving babies from their sin without their participation.

There is none other name given among men whereby we must be saved. That is all I am saying.

 

[Luke2427]

I understand perfectly what you are saying, but it is not consistent with what you say you believe. If salvation is 100% of God and does not require man's participation, then why are you preaching the gospel? You really should just meet together and praise God, and the leave the saving of men to him.

You won't agree, but what I am saying makes perfect sense if your doctrine is true.

You don't get it, Winman.

I'll say it again.

God doesn't need anything. He doesn't have to need it to want it nor does he have to need it to command it.

We preach not for man but for God.

Got it yet?

 

[Luke2427]

We actually preach for God for the benefit of man.

That's illogical.

If you do something for my benefit you do it for me.

We preach for God and man benefits, but that does not mean that we preach for their benefit.

We preach for God not for men.

We love men but men are not our primary motive for ANYTHING we do.

We love God first. And we do not preach first of all to keep men out of hell. We preach for his glory. We are glad that men do come to Christ under our preaching. But that is not the primary reason we preach.

God does not need us. He can save completely without us. He can glorify himself completely without us.

But he chooses to use us and we are glad.

 

[webdog]

I simply said that Christ alone is the way to heaven for any human being.

That God needs people to put faith in Christ in order for God to be able to apply the merits of Christ to them for their salvation is your doctrine.

I think, btw, that is God's normative way. But I do not think that God is restricted to that.

God can save howsoever he chooses, which includes saving babies from their sin without their participation.

There is none other name given among men whereby we must be saved. That is all I am saying.

Based on the above bolded it is plausible atheists can be saved, maybe muslims and others. I'm sorry, but that line of thinking is not biblical and opens up all kind of problems that deny God's Word. God is restricted to saving man in the manner He has told us, He cannot save "howsoever he chooses" which is contrary to His Word. I'm actually shocked you believe this kind of stuff.

 

[Winman]

You don't get it, Winman.

I'll say it again.

God doesn't need anything. He doesn't have to need it to want it nor does he have to need it to command it.

We preach not for man but for God.

Got it yet?

Well, if God wants you to preach the gospel, and God wants men to hear the gospel, then you must agree God wants man to participate in salvation, Yes?

 

[webdog]

That's illogical.

If you do something for my benefit you do it for me.

We preach for God and man benefits, but that does not mean that we preach for their benefit.

We preach for God not for men.

We love men but men are not our primary motive for ANYTHING we do.

We love God first. And we do not preach first of all to keep men out of hell. We preach for his glory. We are glad that men do come to Christ under our preaching. But that is not the primary reason we preach.

God does not need us. He can save completely without us. He can glorify himself completely without us.

But he chooses to use us and we are glad.

It's illogical to say preaching benefits man?!? God doesn't need to know the Good News, He doesn't need to be saved! We are doing God's work FOR man's benefit, not God's!

 

[Luke2427]

Based on the above bolded it is plausible atheists can be saved, maybe muslims and others. I'm sorry, but that line of thinking is not biblical and opens up all kind of problems that deny God's Word. God is restricted to saving man in the manner He has told us, He cannot save "howsoever he chooses" which is contrary to His Word. I'm actually shocked you believe this kind of stuff.

It is far too easy for you to say this.

The only cannots that apply to God are only those that demand he contradict his nature.

God can save apart from faith. Tell him otherwise when you stand before his throne.

It does not allow for Muslims to go to heaven. God does not save those who deny Christ.

But God can save babies and invalids without their participation.

In fact God saves all men without their participation, as far as that goes. God gives men the faith to believe and gives them a heart that wants to believe. That is his way of saving.

He can do that for babies and invalids if he so chooses. Or he can save them without those things. He is God. He does whatsoever he pleases.

 

[Luke2427]

It's illogical to say preaching benefits man?!? God doesn't need to know the Good News, He doesn't need to be saved! We are doing God's work FOR man's benefit, not God's!

As usual you misrepresent what your opponent says.

I did not say that preaching does not benefit man, did I?

Your statement with multiple question marks following is a straw man.

Stay focused. Debate me. Not your straw man.

 

[Luke2427]

Well, if God wants you to preach the gospel, and God wants men to hear the gospel, then you must agree God wants man to participate in salvation, Yes?

It depends on how you mean "participate" in this context.

 

[Winman]

God does not need us. He can save completely without us. He can glorify himself completely without us.

But he chooses to use us and we are glad.

Congratulations! You have just become an Arminian!

 

[webdog]

It is far too easy for you to say this.

It's always easy to say what the Bible teaches.

The only cannots that apply to God are only those that demand he contradict his nature.

..and HIS WORD. By grace are you saved THROUGH faith.

God can save apart from faith. Tell him otherwise when you stand before his throne.

Pure heretical garbage. I won't have to tell Him, He has already told us. You are becoming more hyper by the month.

It does not allow for Muslims to go to heaven. God does not save those who deny Christ.

Why? He can save those who don't have faith, right?

But God can save babies and invalids without their participation.

No He cannot...per His Word.

In fact God saves all men without their participation, as far as that goes. God gives men the faith to believe and gives them a heart that wants to believe. That is his way of saving.

God gave you the faith...who used it? Did you "participate" by using it?

He can do that for babies and invalids if he so chooses. Or he can save them without those things. He is God. He does whatsoever he pleases.

More garbage that deny's Scripture.

 

[webdog]

As usual you misrepresent what your opponent says.

I did not say that preaching does not benefit man, did I?

Your statement with multiple question marks following is a straw man.

Stay focused. Debate me. Not your straw man.

Here is what you said "We preach for God and man benefits, but that does not mean that we preach for their benefit." Who's benefit?

 

[Luke2427]

It's always easy to say what the Bible teaches.
..and HIS WORD. By grace are you saved THROUGH faith.

When God's Word says something in the affirmative it does not condemn the possibility of the negative unless it uses language of exclusivity.

For example "There is none other name given among men whereby you must be saved."

none other- that is language of exclusivity. Therefore there is no other name whereby one can be saved.

But when the Bible says, "God sends his rain on the just and the unjust" thats affirmative language. It does not eliminate the possibility of the negative which is: God also does NOT send his rain on the just and the unjust. In other words there are just people and unjust people who live and die in climates that receive no rain.

Just because God does a thing one way doesn't mean that he does NOT do it another way.

God does save men through faith. That does not mena that he cannot save them without faith.

But we do know this. God saves NNE who denies the name of Christ or refuses to get on the Way.

Therefore no person who refuses the revelation of nature and Scripture can go to heaven.

But one who does not have the intellect to deny either, does not have to have faith because God can save apart from faith if he so chooses.

There is not a verse of Scripture in the Bible that you can bring to bear that says that God MUST have the faith of man in order to save him.

All you can produce is Scripture that says that God does indeed save through faith. That does not eliminate the possibility that he can save another way.

If you have Scripture that says that God cannot save the invalid without the invalids faith- please share it.

Pure heretical garbage. I won't have to tell Him, He has already told us.

Typical debating tactics from webdog.

You are becoming more hyper by the month.

More typical...

Why? He can save those who don't have faith, right?

and still more...

No He cannot...per His Word.

no support... typical

God gave you the faith...who used it? Did you "participate" by using it?
More garbage that deny's Scripture.

and still true to form...

 

[Luke2427]

Here is what you said "We preach for God and man benefits, but that does not mean that we preach for their benefit." Who's benefit?

It is irrelevant. Who benefits has nothing to do with our motive- at the very most it is secondary. Our motive is to please him who hath called us.

 

[Luke2427]

Congratulations! You have just become an Arminian!

That is not Arminianism which is yet another in a long list of proofs that establish your lack of theological comprehension.

That God uses men does not contradict nor identify any particular theological system known to man.

 

[Winman]

It is irrelevant. Who benefits has nothing to do with our motive- at the very most it is secondary. Our motive is to please him who hath called us.

And you please him by participating in the salvation of others by preaching the gospel, Yes?

And those who hear you preach the gospel participate by hearing, Yes?

You are coming along.

 

[Luke2427]

And you please him by participating in the salvation of others by preaching the gospel, Yes?

And those who hear you preach the gospel participate by hearing, Yes?

You are coming along.

Once again you demonstrate your total lack of theological understanding.

That men participate in the way you enunciate here does not contradict nor identify any theological system known to man.

 

[Winman]

Once again you demonstrate your total lack of theological understanding.

That men participate in the way you enunciate here does not contradict nor identify any theological system known to man.

Give me a break, when a man is told to go preach the gospel and does, are you telling me that is not participating in the salvation of others?

Did you get saved like Paul by Jesus appearing to you out of the sky, or did you hear a preacher preaching the gospel?

And did you participate by hearing, or did you storm out of the church and refuse to hear?

 

[Amy.G]

Lukes 1st post:

It's ALL from HIM!
Romans 11:36

New International Version (©1984)
For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.

New Living Translation (©2007)
For everything comes from him and exists by his power and is intended for his glory. All glory to him forever! Amen.


English Standard Version (©2001)
For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

International Standard Version (©2008)
For all things are from him, by him, and for him. Glory belongs to him forever! Amen.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Everything is from him and by him and for him. Glory belongs to him forever! Amen!

Lukes 2nd post:

Close but you are STILL responsible for your actions.

And do not give me the credit- God's Word is what teaches it, not me, my young padawan!:thumbs:

You are wrong master Luke!
My actions are ALL FROM HIM! Therefore God is responsible for my actions, not me.

You said so. It must be true.