It's Over - Obama Wins

[TadQueasy]

So then when Obama spends federal tax dollars to provide abortion on demands that will be God's will also?

Sorry - I don't buy it.

People used free will to vote for Obama.

You are free to have your own opinion as long as you understand you are contradicting Scripture. I will stick with God's Word.

 

[targus]

You are free to have your own opinion as long as you understand you are contradicting Scripture. I will stick with God's Word.

Are you denying free will?

 

[Arbo]

And given the state of the nation (economically, morally, socially) and the present state of international relations (namely Iran and Russia); with this administration's leadership reaffirmed, I think the USA is now set up to reap what we've sowed...and I don't mean only for the last four years.

What have you people been sowing anyway?

And why don't you stop it already?

As you will note, 'we' refers to the population of the United States. I see that you list Michigan as the place that you are from; this would also include you.

I will refrain from answering until I understand who you mean by 'you people'.

 

[targus]

As you will note, 'we' refers to the population of the United States. I see that you list Michigan as the place that you are from; this would also include you.

I will refrain from answering until I understand who you mean by 'you people'.

"You people" would be the ones doing the sowing - obviously.

Given that many of the Obama voters are unsaved...

How is it that some seem to think that the Holy Spirit would move the unsaved to vote for Obama - but the Holy Spirit would not call those same people to become saved?

What kind of logic is that?

 

[mont974x4]

"You people" would be the ones doing the sowing - obviously.

Given that many of the Obama voters are unsaved...

How is it that some seem to think that the Holy Spirit would move the unsaved to vote for Obama - but the Holy Spirit would not call those same people to become saved?

What kind of logic is that?

It's logic based on Scripture....especially Romans 9. I don't have to know God's reasoning to trust His perfect will.

 

[InTheLight]

It's logic based on Scripture....especially Romans 9. I don't have to know God's reasoning to trust His perfect will.

So God wants Obama in office. One of the consequences is that abortions can become even more accessible and paid for by believers. That's God's perfect will?

 

[targus]

It's logic based on Scripture....especially Romans 9. I don't have to know God's reasoning to trust His perfect will.

Then you should act on that trust and contact your representatives to tell them that they should go along with what ever it is that Obama decides that he wants to do...

Since it was God that put Obama in office and not the voters.

 

[poncho]

That's God's perfect will?

It seems that way when we "cherry pick" scripture InTheLight.

 

[TadQueasy]

Romans 13 is very clear, and must be remembered that it was during the days of the Roman Empire which were way worse than our current day in America. So God placed the leaders of the Roman Empire in that time, but we are supposed to believe that God did not place Obama in office now?

It is scary how some of you will twist scripture around here.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Romans 13 is very clear, and must be remembered that it was during the days of the Roman Empire which were way worse than our current day in America. So God placed the leaders of the Roman Empire in that time, but we are supposed to believe that God did not place Obama in office now?

It is scary how some of you will twist scripture around here.

And then you have 1 Timothy 2 which is just as clear.

 

[preachinjesus]

Her post was an accurate reflection of the man God has placed in the Whitehouse for another 4 years, and the will of the people.

I disagree. I think it is a post loaded with erroneous statements and ad hoc rationalizations. So, let's look at some of them:

There is no point in going off topic. America has spoken. We WANT abortions.

The "WANT" is simply not true. More Americans are opposed to the practice of abortion than favor. Also, and I'm not favoring nor condoning this, a significant percentage of the electorate personally oppose abortion but desire to have legal and safe access. The polling data I've seen shows a sizable shift in public opinion to more being opposed to the practice than for it.

Along these lines...what did Romney say about the issue? How hard did he campaign in saying he would oppose and overturn Row? What has been his track record?

We want Free Birth Control.

Well nobody is saying that birth control will be free. There is a cost. The HHS mandate is a bad one and should be overturned. However, this misses the point of the actual debate. So what did Romney say about this issue? How many free condoms did his state adminstration give away? What was his record?

We WANT to live off the government.

Who is saying that? Who is saying that we want to create systems where vast roles of individuals simply sit in an apartment for years and collect government subsidies? Who is saying that in this debate?

Oh, and what did Romney say about this issue? What was his track record?

We WANT to have kill lists for 1 man to decide who to take out.

And when did President Obama say this was something he did or wanted? When did he hold a rally and tell them he was the only judge, jury, and executioner? What legislation has he introduced where 1 person decides who lives or dies?

We WANT 30,000 drones in the skies over head to keep us safe.

Where did President Obama say that he was deplying 30,000 drones to patrol the skies of the United States? Where did the President say he favored unregulated surveillance of Americans? Where did he advocate the unilateral ability of his office to do this? Where is the speech? Where is the segment?

We WANT to have our energy fossil fuels shut down so we can be cold.

Because this is sensible. So let me guess, under the previous 4 years President Obama has allowed zero new drilling contracts in the United States? He has allowed zero new exploratory permits in the US? He has begun shutting down oil companies in an attempt to starve the citizenry? He has made available emergency heating oil to help families? Please show me this pattern.

We WANT obamacare and the government death panels.

Well the first part, I would say we need a system of universal healthcare in the US. Have you been to a doctor lately? Are we really going to look at the US healthcare system and say "Man those people are really knocking it out of the park..."

The second point is a flagrant falsehood. There are zero "death panels" in the ACA. We've been over this again, again, and again, and OldRegular cannot find them and when I've shown the various sections of the bill I've shown how, built into the language of the bill, any board decisions are overseen by Congressional committees and have nothing to do with life and death situations.

No one has been able to show me where I'm wrong.

We WANT free cell phones.

Well this is a ridiculous example. Though there is something out there where somebody claims to have received a free phone it wasn't widespread and I've never heard the President addressing the situation. Show me where part of the President's campaign promises was to give free phones to the entire US. Show me where he promised to give them to people who voted for him only. Show me the evidence and not hyperbole.

We DON'T want to work, we want to be couch potatoes and let Uncle Barack feed us.

I don't even know what this means. How many people, after voting, walked into their employer, quit, and immediately went of government subsidy. Have you ever lived on government subisdy? I have two families in our ministry who do. I've been to their homes. We've helped with their bills. Let me tell you something, nobody receiving government assistance wants to receive it for long and they definitely don't sit in air conditioned, luxury apartments soaking up tax payer dollars. This is an erroneous point.

We WANT Big Brother!

You're right, because the largest expansion of the federal government and watchdog powers happened under.....well it wasn't President Obama.

It was President Bush. President Obama, while (imho) wrongly expanding government has never said he hopes to create a watchdog state that is monitoring all the citizenry.

In fact, as we have seen, all these points are simply irrational hyperbole and ad hoc rationalizations of things which never and will never happen. If they are attempted they will be shut down. Listen, I'm no President Obama flag waver. I won't watch the inaguration or care much to pay attention his next administration.

But things aren't this bad. These things aren't actually going to happen. He has never said that this is part of his plan.

If he has please show us documentation and evidences from credible sources.

 

[saturneptune]

Just as I predicted...since last year.

Honestly people, I really am stunned at the incompetence of the Republican Party. They had unprecedented deficits, high unemployment, an incumbent who ran on "I haven't done it...yet", and a dead US Ambassador and still managed to lose this.

Romney was a terrible, terrible nominee when they needed an outstanding leader.

I usually do not agree, but will at this point. Between the Republican Senate nominees for Senate in Missouri and Indiana, and listening to self indulgent slobs on radio like Dick Morris and Rush Limbaugh, it is time for the Republicans to concentrate on winning elections by standing for issues like governing by the Constitution, and stop with the nonsense.

 

[InTheLight]

Romans 13 is very clear, and must be remembered that it was during the days of the Roman Empire which were way worse than our current day in America. So God placed the leaders of the Roman Empire in that time, but we are supposed to believe that God did not place Obama in office now?

It is scary how some of you will twist scripture around here.

When the apostles asked Christ in Acts 1, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” they were not asking 'will you remove Pontius Pilate and Herod from office and put in another person', they were asking for the entire system to be abolished. Therefore, I believe that Romans 13 refers to the offices of the government of the Roman Empire, and not the individual officeholder at any given time. Romans 13 says, "The authorities that exist have been established by God" and not "The authorities who exist have been established by God."

 

[targus]

So how far does this obedience to Obama go?

If tomorrow he declared that everyone has to become Muslim do we go along with it?

If not - why not - since many say that God put Obama in office.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I think about 55% for Romney but haven't watched TV much. We have a large black population in SC.

The lines were short when I voted yesterday. I have seen no polling results but wonder if a lot of people stayed home rather than vote for a Mormon!

Yea I was just kinda curious....early in the election they were suggesting landslides leading me to believe that black demographic was heavily swaying it. The Mormon issue is big too. See, nobody wanted a Pennsy Italian (grand daddy being a coal cracker) Roman Catholic. Rather 4 more years of a disingenuous mountebank & his staff of University trained academic types who are, themselves, envious of greater ability than their own, and more energy. Our greatest fear should not be the banisters, for we know who they are & their greed is transparent. No indeed, but there is nothing more dangerous than an inferior person with the backing of politicians, who has been convinced that they have been deprived of what they feel is due them.......they are the ones that will destroy the country for they work underground & via manipulation & deception. All to line their own pockets. Mark my words, be leery of BO & his administration for that very reason. Greed & envy!

 

[poncho]

And then you have 1 Timothy 2 which is just as clear.

There's also Hebrews 11, Joshua 6, and Judges 4.

Jochebed defied Pharaoh. Rahab the harlot defied the authorities, and Deborah who was "led by God" defied the Canaanite authorities.

Seems to me the problem with Romans 13ers is that they refuse to take into account the stories in the bible where God Himself has led people to defy illegitimate authority.

The key words here are illegitimate authority.

In the USA those who govern according to the law (Constitution) are legitimate authorities and are acting as God's ministers for good. Those who govern outside or above the law (Constitution) are illegitimate authorities acting on powers never granted to them by the law and we are under no obligation biblical or otherwise to obey any illegitimate authorities.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There's also Hebrews 11, Joshua 6, and Judges 4.

Jochebed defied Pharaoh. Rahab the harlot defied the authorities, and Deborah who was "led by God" defied the Canaanite authorities.

Seems to me the problem with Romans 13ers is that they refuse to take into account the stories in the bible where God Himself has led people to defy illegitimate authority.

That said is your rule of law & what Americans should stand behind & judge from.

In the USA those who govern according to the law (Constitution) are legitimate authorities and are acting as God's ministers for good. Those who govern outside or above the law (Constitution) are illegitimate authorities acting on powers never granted to them by the law and we are under no obligation biblical or otherwise to obey any illegitimate authorities.

That said is your rule of law & what Americans should stand behind & judge from.

 

[LadyEagle]

I disagree. I think it is a post loaded with erroneous statements and ad hoc rationalizations. So, let's look at some of them:



The "WANT" is simply not true. More Americans are opposed to the practice of abortion than favor. Also, and I'm not favoring nor condoning this, a significant percentage of the electorate personally oppose abortion but desire to have legal and safe access. The polling data I've seen shows a sizable shift in public opinion to more being opposed to the practice than for it.

Along these lines...what did Romney say about the issue? How hard did he campaign in saying he would oppose and overturn Row? What has been his track record?



Well nobody is saying that birth control will be free. There is a cost. The HHS mandate is a bad one and should be overturned. However, this misses the point of the actual debate. So what did Romney say about this issue? How many free condoms did his state adminstration give away? What was his record?



Who is saying that? Who is saying that we want to create systems where vast roles of individuals simply sit in an apartment for years and collect government subsidies? Who is saying that in this debate?

Oh, and what did Romney say about this issue? What was his track record?



And when did President Obama say this was something he did or wanted? When did he hold a rally and tell them he was the only judge, jury, and executioner? What legislation has he introduced where 1 person decides who lives or dies?



Where did President Obama say that he was deplying 30,000 drones to patrol the skies of the United States? Where did the President say he favored unregulated surveillance of Americans? Where did he advocate the unilateral ability of his office to do this? Where is the speech? Where is the segment?



Because this is sensible. So let me guess, under the previous 4 years President Obama has allowed zero new drilling contracts in the United States? He has allowed zero new exploratory permits in the US? He has begun shutting down oil companies in an attempt to starve the citizenry? He has made available emergency heating oil to help families? Please show me this pattern.



Well the first part, I would say we need a system of universal healthcare in the US. Have you been to a doctor lately? Are we really going to look at the US healthcare system and say "Man those people are really knocking it out of the park..."

The second point is a flagrant falsehood. There are zero "death panels" in the ACA. We've been over this again, again, and again, and OldRegular cannot find them and when I've shown the various sections of the bill I've shown how, built into the language of the bill, any board decisions are overseen by Congressional committees and have nothing to do with life and death situations.

No one has been able to show me where I'm wrong.



Well this is a ridiculous example. Though there is something out there where somebody claims to have received a free phone it wasn't widespread and I've never heard the President addressing the situation. Show me where part of the President's campaign promises was to give free phones to the entire US. Show me where he promised to give them to people who voted for him only. Show me the evidence and not hyperbole.



I don't even know what this means. How many people, after voting, walked into their employer, quit, and immediately went of government subsidy. Have you ever lived on government subisdy? I have two families in our ministry who do. I've been to their homes. We've helped with their bills. Let me tell you something, nobody receiving government assistance wants to receive it for long and they definitely don't sit in air conditioned, luxury apartments soaking up tax payer dollars. This is an erroneous point.



You're right, because the largest expansion of the federal government and watchdog powers happened under.....well it wasn't President Obama.

It was President Bush. President Obama, while (imho) wrongly expanding government has never said he hopes to create a watchdog state that is monitoring all the citizenry.

In fact, as we have seen, all these points are simply irrational hyperbole and ad hoc rationalizations of things which never and will never happen. If they are attempted they will be shut down. Listen, I'm no President Obama flag waver. I won't watch the inaguration or care much to pay attention his next administration.

But things aren't this bad. These things aren't actually going to happen. He has never said that this is part of his plan.

If he has please show us documentation and evidences from credible sources.

You know, PIJ, you have taken what I said and added your own "twist" to it and come up with some off-the-wall stuff. But that's okay, if you were really interested instead of being defensive about your guy, it is easy to Google. I don't care to have a further discussion, but believe me, the "kill list" is a reality and the other things I mentioned. The 30,000 drones over US skies were passed by Congress and signed by BO.

 

[poncho]

You know, PIJ, you have taken what I said and added your own "twist" to it and come up with some off-the-wall stuff. But that's okay, if you were really interested instead of being defensive about your guy, it is easy to Google. I don't care to have a further discussion, but believe me, the "kill list" is a reality and the other things I mentioned. The 30,000 drones over US skies were passed by Congress and signed by BO.

And none if it is legal.

 

[preachinjesus]

You know, PIJ, you have taken what I said and added your own "twist" to it and come up with some off-the-wall stuff. But that's okay, if you were really interested instead of being defensive about your guy, it is easy to Google. I don't care to have a further discussion, but believe me, the "kill list" is a reality and the other things I mentioned. The 30,000 drones over US skies were passed by Congress and signed by BO.

Burden of proof is on you.

After making any number of erroneous statements that lack foundation or evidence you are the one responsible for backing it up.

I took your statements at face value and simply asked questions. You clearly have no grounds for these things or you would have provided it.

FWIW, President Obama isn't "my guy" and I'm not defending him. Please take a moment and re-read what I've posted. I don't support him. I didn't vote for him. Don't try to dismiss my critique of your bad post by labeling and libeling me.

Either put up proof or stop making ridiculously ungrounded statements. If these things are so obvious then the proof from reputible sources shouldn't be hard for you to come by.