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Featured Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Mar 17, 2022.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    In John chapter 5, it was Jesus Christ Himself, Who preached the Gospel to the Jews who wanted to murder Him, in verse 34 Jesus says that He was talking to them, so that they might be saved. In verse 40, these Jews rejected what Jesus said, that would have given them eternal life

    In Acts chapter 7, Stephen preached the Gospel, and then told the Jews who did not accept what he was saying, that they resisted the Holy Spirit (51)

    In Acts chapter 13, it was Paul who was preaching to Jews, who also rejected the Gospel, and "considered themselves unworthy of eternal life" (v46). It was not that God had so ordained that they could not believe, as some would have us believe!

    We see the same thing in Acts 28, when again some of the Jews rejected the Gospel, while others believed. Note that Paul was "persuading" them (23), which shows that Paul believed they had a FREE WILL! As all these passages teach
     
    #21 SavedByGrace, Mar 17, 2022
  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I am not a Calvinist. I believe some scripture supports Calvinism, some supports Arminianism. I have to put this passage in the "supports Calvinism" column.
     
    #22 Reynolds, Mar 17, 2022
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  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    What evidence can you provide from the passage
     
    #23 SavedByGrace, Mar 17, 2022
  4. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    @SavedByGrace
    You have some good arguments in post 21 above. I think they are adequately covered in the WCF Ch. 10 point 4 on common grace. Remember that God works through common things like persuasion and the written and spoken word and so men hear this, evaluate it and decide in most cases one way or the other. I believe that men tend to decide to reject it. I think the work of the Holy Spirit is necessary to make anyone actually come to Christ. I don't think I would have come to Christ. Actually, I would be afraid to try to stay following Christ even now without the Holy Spirit. I don't think I would make it and I think most people are about like me.
     
    #24 DaveXR650, Mar 17, 2022
  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Verse 16 is most obvious.
     
    #25 Reynolds, Mar 17, 2022
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    here it is, now show the "Calvinism"?

    So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy
     
    #26 SavedByGrace, Mar 18, 2022
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  7. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Tell me how it does not ooze with predestination.
     
    #27 Reynolds, Mar 18, 2022
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  8. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Let's see....hmmmm...it's not man's will but God who chooses to have mercy....

    You are right, that does not support Calvinism at all.... :rolleyes:
     
    #28 Reformed1689, Mar 18, 2022
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  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    You are being influenced by some on BB! :eek:
     
    #29 SavedByGrace, Mar 18, 2022
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Or he just reads the Bible...
     
    #30 Reformed1689, Mar 18, 2022
  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    No. I just have reading comprehension.
     
    #31 Reynolds, Mar 18, 2022
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I am asking you to show me from Romans chapter 9 the Calvinism
     
    #32 SavedByGrace, Mar 18, 2022
  13. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Verse 16 shows you a plain example of predestination/election which is a point of Calvinism.
     
    #33 Reynolds, Mar 18, 2022
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    This verse is a further description of God's choice of Jacob over Easu
     
    #34 SavedByGrace, Mar 18, 2022
  15. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Which is part of an OVERALL LARGER point Paul is trying to make. You miss the forest for the trees. Good grief.
     
    #35 Reformed1689, Mar 18, 2022
  16. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I think Jacob I loved Esau I hated is in the same context as, in Isaac thy seed shall be called.

    Unto, the promise!

    Unto faith.

    Unto Christ.
     
    #36 percho, Mar 18, 2022
  17. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    Probably be a good idea NOT to dismiss so readily. I'd be interested to read your objections to this info; as well as other opinions!!
     
    #37 just-want-peace, Mar 18, 2022
  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    When did He choose Jacob over Esau?
    What was His badis for the Choice?
    Those are the points that you must cede to a Calvinistic interpretation of the passage.
     
    #38 Reynolds, Mar 18, 2022
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Can you not see the choice here is for SERVICE only and not eternal life
     
    #39 SavedByGrace, Mar 18, 2022
  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Can you see you aren't reading the whole passage? :rolleyes:
     
    #40 Reformed1689, Mar 18, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
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