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James 2 explained.

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
<sigh> There's no mention of justification by faith alone here. Why? Because such a passage doesn't exist. Justification by faith alone is a manmade construct.



No mention of faith, or justification by our faith alone here either, just parroting the error of the early Reformers, 'our faith alone'.
<sigh> You still refuse to get it. Justification is by grace alone through the work of Christ, but it comes through faith in Christ, not works (Eph. 2:8; Titus 3:5ff again). Therefore it is by grace alone, by Christ alone, through faith alone, according to the Scriptures alone, to the glory of God alone, as the Reformers taught.
We are saved by works, but they are the works of Christ.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
No, but every sinner who is justified is saved, and every sinner who is save has been justified.

Whatever, if you're satisfied with that.

FTR, faith is just one element of our justification (and Eph 2:8 clearly states that this faith is not of ourselves). God gets 100% of the glory.

Peruse all these 'justifications' from Romans alone:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Ro 3
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5
33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God`s elect? It is God that justifieth; Ro 8

Justified by our faith alone? Not!
 
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kyredneck

Well-Known Member
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<sigh> You still refuse to get it. Justification is by grace alone through the work of Christ, but it comes through faith in Christ, not works (Eph. 2:8; Titus 3:5ff again). Therefore it is by grace alone, by Christ alone, through faith alone, according to the Scriptures alone, to the glory of God alone, as the Reformers taught.
We are saved by works, but they are the works of Christ.

Are you also conflating 'saved' (sozo) with 'justified' (dikaioo) like @David Lamb does? Is this an Anglo thing?
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Are you also conflating 'saved' (sozo) with 'justified' (dikaioo) like @David Lamb does? Is this an Anglo thing?
Do you want to deal with my post?
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
The whole point of what Paul is saying in Rom. 1-3 is that 'We have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one......'
If salvation is by works, no one at all is going to be saved.
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Ro 3
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5
33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God`s elect? It is God that justifieth; Ro 8
Yep! As I wrote before, Grace Alone, Faith Alone, Christ Alone, to the Glory of God Alone.
If you would like me to explain the 'alone's to you, here you are:
Grace alone, without any input from man.
Faith alone, apart from works.
Christ alone, without help from anyone.
To the glory of God alone. 'That no flesh should glory in His presence' (1 Cor. 1:29).
According to the Scriptures alone. 'As it is written............ That every mouth may be stopped and the whole world may become guilty before God' (Romans 3:10-19).
 

GentleGospeller

Active Member
James 2:24 says: "A person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

Romans 4:5 says: "To him who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Is this a contradiction? No.

The answer is found by reading Scripture ...
I agree that the answer is found reading Scripture, but it is not the answer provided by the OP. Definitely not.

What most persons responding seemed to have missed, over looked, or not mentioned (unless I missed such, and if that is the case I apologize to that/those person/s), is that the OP is entirely from a human-only perspective, as if the Holy Ghost / Spirit was not the one moving upon both James and Paul to write what they did in their differing areas and times.

In other words, the Holy Ghost is beyond those areas and times and persons, and not merely relegated to just those areas and times and persons. The Holy Ghost sees the end from the beginning (Isa. 46:9-10), being the eternal Witness of all things (even of the eternal events of the Father & Son in all eternity), and therefore, the OP is way off base, denying the heavenly influence, and relegating the scripture into piecemeal earthly elements (men only), fractured by time, place and personality. If that was the case for James and Paul as the OP says, then what of all the other places in scripture with similar 'discrepancies' (No, there are no real discrepancies in scripture), between OT writers, and OT to NT writers, and among other NT writers? Reducing such an 'apparent contradiction' in Paul & James' materials to merely their human element, is to miss who is the real author of the scriptures, and there is no half-way measure with God. There is an unfolding to be sure, from beginning to ending, but all of the unfolded ending is still in the beginning seed. In other words, the full gospel has always been there, from seed form in Genesis to fullness of the tree (Calvary) form.

The OP needs to re-read the following, and take it to heart, and start all over again in their understanding:

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Mar_12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Luk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
Luk 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
Luk 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Luk 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Luk_2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
Act_1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
Act_3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Act_13:4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
Act_28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom_5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Rom_15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
2Co_6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
2Co_13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
Eph_3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
2Ti_1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
Tit_3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
1Pe_1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

What does James say he is?
Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

Paul specifically said after meeting with the early Apostles:
Gal_2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
 

Alan Dale Gross

Well-Known Member
All of what you have said is very, very, very good. I like it.

I just wanted to have you look at what I believe about a few of these verses you have quoted.

And it's best to do that in a New Thread.

 

Alan Dale Gross

Well-Known Member
the Holy Ghost is beyond those areas and times and persons, and not merely relegated to just those areas and times and persons. The Holy Ghost sees the end from the beginning (Isa. 46:9-10), being the eternal Witness of all things (even of the eternal events of the Father & Son in all eternity)
What a cool, God-Honoring statement that is.
All of what you have said is very, very, very good. I like it.
"the Holy Ghost is beyond those areas and times and persons..."
 

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
Whatever, if you're satisfied with that.

FTR, faith is just one element of our justification (and Eph 2:8 clearly states that this faith is not of ourselves). God gets 100% of the glory.

Peruse all these 'justifications' from Romans alone:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Ro 3
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5
33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God`s elect? It is God that justifieth; Ro 8

Justified by our faith alone? Not!
I certainly did not mean to ignore grace, Christ's blood, or God Himself as having vital roles in justification. Sorry if I gave such an impression.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
The OP is based on a misunderstanding of the contextual meaning of “justify” in James and in Romans.

When James says a person is “justified” by works, he is saying his faith is validated by works. Therefore, faith without works is a dead faith.

Paul says the same in Ephesians when he says we are saved by grace, apart from works… to walk in the works God has prepared for us.

The expectation of salvation is a transformed life that produces Godly living.

In Romans, Paul uses “justify” in a forensic (legal) sense of being declared not guilty in a courtroom.. God’s courtroom, where we justified (not guilty) based on the work of Jesus in the cross.

The notion that James was unsaved when He wrote his letter is nonsense.

Peace to you
 

percho

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
IMHO James 2 is stating the following in in progress.

or of Him we are workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God did before prepare, that in them we may walk. Eph 2:10
 
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