Japan mulls pre-emptive strike against N Korea

How do we plead? Guilty! There isn't a country on the face of the earth that hasn't done something wrong, something that negatively impacted one or more nations (nations=people). There are hundreds of examples. While the primer on NS Korea is interesting (to say the least), the issue today is what do we do NOW. How do we answer the cry of the people for peace and stability? There are no easy secular solutions to all the moves being made on the political chessboard, the "game" being played 24/7/365. Yes, we learn from history. At the same time, we cannot remain in the quicksand of "ain't it awful," "woe is us." As long as we in the USA remain secular, we must anticipate and respond to every move on the board, hoping we get it right, remembering that there are nations around the world (the vast majority in the U.N.) that have no clear understanding of "right". The Nazis and the Soviets were master liars, with the Soviets announcing early-on that anything that promoted the advance of Communism was "truth," even lying. The Saudis and other Islamic nations and groups promote the same ideology. It ain't easy, bein' free. :flower:

 

To : From the Right,

Now I want to continue the explanation on this issue:

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'Sorry, but here you sound like an apologist for North Korea. Please explain if I misunderstood you. It was North Korea who violated the agreement, and they admitted it, when inspectors caught them. That is when North Korea declared they were abandoning the Agreed Framework. The Agreed Framework included providing the nuke plants as you stated. The U.S. made moves to do so but North Korea was even obstructionist in cooperating on the building and location. The U.S. refused to abide by that agreement once North Korea puled out of the Agreement. Further, the U.S. did in fact ship oil to NK as part of that Framework until NK backed out.
And, wait a minute, "USA kept the promise" or USA violated the Geneva Treaty of 1994"? Which?
Nope ! This is a big misunderstanding by Americans. As none of News media of US report the truth, ( though sometimes NYT reports quite in depth), many are misled and misunderstanding the facts.

In 1994, US, NK, and Japan and SK made the agreements as follows:
1) NK stop and seal the Nuke facility in Young Byon, Heavy Water Reactor
2) Those countries form an Organization called "KEDO" which build up the Light Water Reactor Nuke Plant in Shinpo.
3) The Light Water Reactor connstruction may take 5-7 years, in the meantime NK need the electricity, and therefore it should be supplied by KEDO
4) The cost should be shared by the countries which benfit from this treaty, namely SK, Jap, US, and even EU a little.

But the treaty was not ratified by the US congress and senate quickly as GOP was majority or objected to it.
US wanted to sell Westinghouse/GE facility to KEDO, and Russia tried to sell their reactors to KEDO. SK said they would not object to any other country if they are willing to share the cost of KEDO for 70%, but SK would pay only 30% of the KEDO cost if SK don't supply SK model of Reactor. Then all the other competitors gave up and Korea was supposed to pay 70% of the KEDO expense and supply Korean model of Reactor to Nk.

It took a long time for US to finally approve the treaty, in the meantime NK threatned they would reactivate the work of Plutonum concentration process. But at the end they agreed to accept the treaty and sealed the Young Byon plants as US approved the treaty finally. That's why they accepted the inspectors from IAEA. SK started to send materials to NK to build the plant in Shin-Po, Japan paid 20% of the cost, SK paid 70% of it, 10% was paid by EU and US was supposed to supply Diesel oil until the pant is complete.
However, in the meantime US didn't supply the diesel faithfully. They supplied once and then stopped, then re-started to supply it, then stopped it, then re-started it.
However, as soon as G Bush became the president, he declared NK as one of Axis of Evil and questioned why we should supply the diesel to this dictator's country? Then he ordered to stop the supply of fuel, then NK declared the breach of the Geneva agreement, and demanded the departure of IAEA inspectors. Around this time I watched the TV's every day but CNN and all the media didn't report why NK declared the breach of the treaty, and the fact that US violated the Geneva Treaty. So, hundreds of millions of American misunderstood that NK violated the Geneva Treaty first.
One more big misunderstanding by G Bush was apparently that US could attack NK by Pre-emptive attacks onto Young-Byon, but he didn't know that thousands of US army would be killed in a minute, once NK is attacked, as there are 20,000 US troops in Tong-Du Chon close to the border. Later on it seemed that G Bush realized the Cowboy style diplomacy had a problem. US started to discuss about the relocation of the US army from TDC to Pyong-Taek. The cost of relocation was estimated as 10 Billion USD but is increasing as the price levels are increasing.
Apparently it was US that provoked and violated Geneva Treaty. If you disagree, you better make more study on this. Many people misunderstand about this. this is why I felt the need to post my article here.

After that NK removed all the seals and have been defiant to US or any other countries. I am sure they will continue this even though millions of people starve there.

 

Eliyahu,

Thanks much for your reply. You clarified much.

Still, a few replies:

Are you counting camels and gnats? Kidnapping is kidnapping. Though I don't excuse Japanese kidnapping, it was done by a different government. The NK kidnapping of Japanese was done by the current Communist government.

Sure, just like in North Korea.

As to the Agreed Framework, I believe you have misstated the chronology. Do you have a good source for the chronology you stated?

Thanks again.

 

There can be some duplication of the acceptance of Tech. But often people understand Scud missiles are originally from Russia and NK received some part of Tech from Russia, developped their own, get some assistance from China. But as for Japanese spare-parts, it has been told that NK use Japanese parts as they are more accurate than any other country's. There are 2 million Koreans living in Japan most of whom are from SK originally but support NK often. They often run the business of private banking and slot machine gambling house, then supply the money to NK. So, the biggest contributor for NK is Japan now.

History and the reality are the factors to consider. I don't neglect the starvation matter of NK. SK, US must help them in every possible way.

Yes, it applies to SK, and as long as there is the freedom of economy.


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Specifics?

That is the half of the truth. But remember that the fundamental cause of the Korean War started from US' mistreatment of Korea.

US gave the disease first, then gave the pharmacy later.:laugh:

I watch, read and hear the TV and NEws papers, but they don't report the truth. At the end of the world, we will realize how much were misguided by News media.
You can find the difference when I mentioned " It was US that violated Geneva Treaty. Nobody dare to tell the truth in US:wavey:
Please check closely around the time of December 2001. US repealed the treaty first, thinking that US can make Pre=emptive attack to NK easily.



And from your last post:

Maybe my statement was not reflecting the whole situation very well. Indeed I have a strong sympathy with starving people of NK, but why God allows them to starve so?
I have the strong sympathy for the Jews of 6 million killed in Holocaust, but on the ashes of theirs, Israel was built and Messianic Jews are growing.
I have the strong sympathy with 4 million Koreans killed during the Korean War, but they died of their own sins, and on top of their death and ashes, SK has been built and 12 million Protestant Christians are thriving in SK.
Yes, we have to help the people starving in NK, but they have to rise and fight the dictator too. If they don't, there will continue to be famine. They are choosing to starve rather than to fight the dictator.
If you look at the whole situation, there is no better solution than the rise of domestic resistance inside NK.

Indeed, I have much more thoughts than you may have about them. If they rely on the news media of US, it is up to you.
Though I notice a plenty of Info and discussions about NK are provided here in North America, but I still find they are misleading the people, because they started from the lack of historical background.

 

The atrocities by Japanese were not less than NK, but the scale of Japanese was throughout Pacific Rim.
I said already that I don't condone the behavior of NK. You can compare the capture of 200,000 - 300,000 girls from Korea kidnapped by Japanese government to the capture of 13 girls by NK.
Have you ever heard about Japanese sex slaves before ? Did US media reported it in balanced way when United Nation discussed about the testimony by those Comfort Women? How was your understanding then ?
If you never heard about such, it proves that US media is not reporting the balanced facts. Even today fairly a dozen of girls are raped or killed in Korea by US army. To US army, killing the civilians are not crimes, but a sports.

I don't understand what you mean by Chronology. If you meant the Chronology of China, it starts from

Eun-Chow-Chin ( First Emperor)- Han- Oh-Ho 16 countries-Sou Dynasty-Tang Dynasty- Ssoong Dynasty-Rayo & Keum/South Ssoong- Wuen ( Mongolian) - Ming Dynasty-Ching Dynasty- Kuomin Tang by Ssoon Wuen and Chang-kai-Seo/Mao Cheo toong.

As for Korean Dynasty
Ko-Kuryo-Shila-Koreyo-Chosun-Japanese Colony- Korea (SK and NK)

 

Many people think that the whole peninsula of Korea would have become like NK even now if US didn't help SK during Korean War. But such assumption may lack the understanding of the cause of problems there.

If US had not helped SK in Korean War, yes, the whole country would have become the communist country for a while. Then they would have followed the countries like Poland Romania, and China. After the collapse of Communists, they would have started to rebuild the country. By now they could have become far better off like China.

In the meantime, the communist world would have become much more powerful and the whole Japan might have been in danger or more vulnerable to the attacks by Russians etc. Japanese would have had to spend much more for the defense as they were on the frontline.
Then the whole free world might have been weaker than the communists and had to yield to them in some areas. In the worst case, Japan might have been invaded by Russia, China, and Korea. Taiwan as well. then there would have been no ground for the free world in Asia.
Korea has been contributing as a defense wall for the free world for decades, at their own expense.

We cannot imagine very much about such, as there is no assumption in the history.

 

I can fairly well understand the nuance of Korean words by North Koreans when they commented on the remarks by Japs threatening with Pre-emptive Attack.

They said " Do they want to make Preemptive attack really? They better not do so for themselves"

This means that " we thought Japanese knew about themselves far better than attacking NK by Pre-emptive action. They'd better not do so because they have many weaknesses and holes"

Then we started to hear from Niikata Ken which is close to NK and have 7 Nuke Power plants, that Japan should consider the reaction by NK. Shimane Ken which has 9 Nuke Power plants and exposed to the East Sea suggested the same as well.

The best chance to resolve NK problem was available at the time of Admiral McArthur, when he suggested bombing Manchuria during the Korean war. At that time US led UN forces recovered 95 % of Korea and NK could not survive if they pass one winter but China started to assist NK. China didn't have any nuke at all, and USSR had only Atomic Bomb but still in the stage of beginner.
Truman refused the attack onto China and fired McArthur who said the Old soldier never die but fade away.

Thereafter Bill Clinton Govt had the second best chance in 1993, but took the soft policy toward NK. After collapse of communists, NK could expect the least support from Russia and China, and they didn't have nuke yet, nor long range missiles. SK would have to suffer from the losses quite a lot, but could win NK easily and dissolved Nuke facilities at that time, but US chose the Geneva Treaty in 1994.

Now, after giving up all the best chances in the past, after NK has developped Nukes and missiles, in the worst situation US try to shift to the hardline gear.

Shall they take Pre-emptive action? We just laugh :laugh: but will see if there is so much eagerness among the people to see Japan turning into ashes, starting from 54 Nuke power plants in Japan exploding.

 

Finally, one more point in relationship with other countries like Iran, I would say that the taylor made actions should be taken for each case, if any pinpoint attack is possible, let them do it.
In case of NK, we missed too good chances in the past. We may wait for some domestic resistance inside NK helping the refugees and the dissidents there, and if the regime is collapsed, the missile and nuke problems will be resolved.
In case of Iran, US may have to consider the pin-point actions asap. There is no need to take the same action for each case.

 

Eliyahu,

Yes, North Koreans in Japan, and the NK government's counterfeiting and drug running.

Why? The World Food Programme pulled out when North Korea would not allow access to distribute food; nor would NK allow random interviews by WFP to better assess the hunger situation there. Human Rights Watch and others have thoroughly and repeatedly documented that during the depths of the famine the regime was diverting food to its elites, keeping it away from "enemies of the regime", in violation of its commitments under international agreements.

If the details are as you stated, it is shameful to the U.S. but it is disingenuous to blame Communism on the U.S. The Soviet Union set up the NK state, assisted by China, and implemented by the Kims.

Please provide some details. The North Koreans backed out of the treaty the day after they were caught red-handed in violation of the agreement.

We do agree that they need to fight Kim, but it is Pollyannish to suggest that in the midst of this Stalinist system that an opposition has ANY chance of success there. It would be sheer suicide for them to do so.

I wasn't alive then, I don't know.

<edited - LE - That, Eliyahu, (in my opinion) is not true. >

I asked for a chronology ("arrangment of events in time", Webster's Dictionary) of events surrounding the Agreed Framework, not a history of China.

That is naive and ridiculous. You are assuming that the Kim's are reformists at heart which they have repeatedly proven is not the case. In the few limited cases when they have allowed "experiments", they quickly reverted back to tyranny.

I don't know much about nuclear power but I do know that nuke plants don't detonate in a nuclear explosion when attacked.

 

FTR, you may be wrong on this:

http://pro-resources.net/nuclear-power-plant.html

BTW, this is a very interesting thread and the debate is being conducted in a very mature and articulate manner. Kudos.

 

Thanks, LE. I didn't mean that they were indestructible, only that when they are struck with a bomb, the impact does not produce a mushroom cloud due to nuclear fuel in the plant. That's what I've always heard. I'll check out the link.

Actually, my patience got a little short a couple of times. I'll take your note as a very gracious reminder. Thanks. :thumbs:

 

I know what you are saying. We are supposed to continue the humanitarian aid. WFP reduced the Aid since NK expelled IAEA inspectors. They reacted to NK accordingly to the declaration by NK. IF NK refuse the acceptance of the support and aid, then it is the responsibility of NK.
Then we did everything possible, and then I would say the starvation is a pity but there is no way except that NK people rise up rather than they starve.

I told you already that it was US that divided Korea into 2 pieces in order to induce Russia to provoke Non-Invasion Treaty with Japan.
This fact is so famous among SK people since it was released from the archive of US diplomacy. Even before the release of it, the fact was already known thru some channels.
The person who suggested the division of Korea was a US colonel, and he thought parallel 38 is nice for US because SK could include Seoul, while Russia was not unhappy with Pyong Yang, the old capital of Ancient Korea, either. This caused the spread of 20 million people among relatives and families.

This is quite famous among the people who know the truth. Check it for yourself. It was US that declared the nullification of the Treaty first, then NK declared the cancellation of the treaty and expelled the inspectors from IAEA. Check the sequence. My info is rather in Korean in many cases.
Check the day when G Bush declared that his govt would not continue to supply the diesel to NK. Thereafter NK expelled the inspectors from IAEA out of NK. At that time I lived in St Catharines Ont, and expained the sequences to Canadian, then they were surprised to hear about the difference between News report and the truth.

that is quite difficult to say as such resistance accompanies a lot of sacrifice, but the democracy wasn't built up without the blood, which happened even in SK.

Even though you may not know some truth, the Truth stands still.


<edited - LE>

Then do you claim that Iraqi raping and killing was the case occurred only once? Do you know the Iceberg?
In Korea it is much easier for the GI's to access girls than in Iraq. It happens like that. That's why so many Koreans demonstrate against US army. Unfortunately it is true even though you may not want to believe.
Then the agreement with Korea allows the indemnification of US army from criminal charges, just due to the official work. The judicial right of SK to be exercised unto US army is much more restricted than those agreement between US army and Germany, and Japan. What Koreans protest for is that they should have the equal protection as Japanese and German judicial courts have unto US forces there.



I asked for a chronology ("arrangment of events in time", Webster's Dictionary) of events surrounding the Agreed Framework, not a history of China.

No one cannot imagine exactly what would have happened, if US didn't participate in Korean War. Currently the reason why NK runs so much dictatorship is because they need a certain protection against SK, or they should be conscious about SK all the time. If there were no SK, they could have become like Vietnam today, and they could open their country. At the moment they cannot do so, if they do so, all the NK people will rise up and the regime will be collapsed, which is the biggest concern of Kim Jeong Il.

If US had not participated in Korean War, Korea would have been like Vietnam. Vietnam remained as a communist country for awhile after the retreat of US, but are they starving now ?

My understanding is that the main difference between Chernobyl type and Westinghouse or Combustion Engineering Types is that US types have the thick concrete wall to protect them, while Russian types are exposed very much for cheap cost.
Once the protective concrete blocks ( 1 m thick) are destroyed, the situation is the same as the Russian types.

 

There is no persecution of Christians in those countries today, even during the Japanese colony there was no persecution of Christians in Korea in general. But suddenly Japanese started to force the people worship Shinto's and bow down toward East, calling their gods. Many Christians refused and thereby were tortured and killed while many Catholics and Buddhists obeyed them, in Korea. In general Protestants were the only group persecuted by Japs.
Catholic bishops even encouraged their people to worship Shinto's. We can see the future persecution of Christians at the end times.

Many Jews are told to have lived in Kaipeng area in China ( as little north of Nanjing or Shanhai) during Tang dynasty ( 660-900 AD). King Tae-jong was a Christian. After 900 AD, Ssoong dynasty offered Jews the family name "Ssoong" which means that they had the same family name as the Kings' Some of them crossed the sea and settled in Koreyo and were involved in international trading and Ginseng trading. Kaisong in NK was famous for such trading.
I don't know much about their journey to Japan, but guess not so much, not so little. The most of them became homgenized with the local people.

 

Some of the glympse on the Yalta Conference may be found here :


http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/pd-c-01.htm

Some excerpts are :


Unlike the Soviet Union, the United States attached little importance to Korea as a strategic area. Korea supported a relatively small population, and had neither important industrial facilities nor many natural resources. If at some future date Korea fell into hands unfriendly to the United States, the United States recognized that the occupation of Japan might be hampered and American freedom of movement might be restricted in the general area. But with China in 1945 under control of a friendly government, such a situation appeared unlikely. Russia, on the other hand, maintained its traditional regard for Korea as a strategic area. As later events demonstrated, the Soviet Union would not countenance control of Korea by another power and sought to control Korea itself.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt and Premier Josef V. Stalin at the Yalta Conference in 1945 touched upon Korea's future. Roosevelt advocated a trusteeship for Korea administered by the United States, the Soviet Union, and China. Looking at American experience in the Philippines, he surmised that such a trusteeship might last for twenty or thirty years. Stalin said he believed that Great Britain should also be a trustee. No actual mention of Korea was made in the document recording the agreements at Yalta. The secret protocol developed by Roosevelt and Stalin and agreed to by Prime Minister Winston S. Churchill only provided territorial and other concessions to the USSR in the Far East as conditions for Russian entrance into the war against Japan after the defeat of Germany. Later, soon after Roosevelt's death, Stalin told Harry Hopkins, President Harry S. Truman's representative in Moscow, that Russia was committed to the policy of a 4-power trusteeship for Korea. [11]
Though American military planners ostensibly paid little attention to Korea, they had Korea in mind. On 25 July 1945, the Army Chief of Staff, General of the Army George C. Marshall, sent a note to President Truman at Potsdam, advising him that some guidance on handling Korea would assist the Joint Chiefs of Staff. General of the Army Douglas MacArthur, Commander in Chief of the United States Army Forces, Pacific, had already received instructions to prepare for occupying Japan, and shortly before Potsdam these orders were broadened to include Korea. In response to the additional directive, General MacArthur suggested that Tokyo and Seoul have first priority for occupation, Pusan second priority, and the Kunsan area on Korea's west coast, third priority. General Marshall then informed the President that MacArthur should be able to land a division at Pusan within a short time of the end of the war. The other strategic areas in Korea, Mar


Here is another view on the conference:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/y/yaltac1on.asp

The excerpts are:
The USSR secretly agreed to enter the war against Japan within three months of Germany's surrender and was promised S Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands, and an occupation zone in Korea.


The difference between 2 is that One reports the zoning was already discussed at Yalta secretly even though there was no written agreement declared then.
Another reports that only the general agreement for dividing Korea was discussed at Yalta, then around August 11-12 after Japan was nuked, US suggested 38 parallel, even though they could have suggested 39 parallel earlier.

 

OK, I'm resigned to disagreeing.

You are the one who has made the assertion to begin with, I'm simply asking you to back it up. There are several chronologies available on the Internet, including that of the Arms Control Association and PBS which do not support your assertion. Who "declared" nullification of the Treaty for the US? When? NK didn't simply "declare cancellation of the treaty", they were caught red handed enriching uranium and withdrew the next day. If you can't back up your assertion, just say so.

Even when the South Korean government was at its most authoritarian, it was not nearly as despotic as the NK government.

This was in response to my statement that it was a vicious lie to say as you did that for the US Army killing civilians is a sport, not a crime. I didn't deny that American soldiers have raped civilians. I certainly don't justify it but no Army on another nation's soil has been perfect. But it is both vicious and a lie to say that the Army considers it sport. You should retract such a slander.

Again, that is a ridiculous statement. The NK government might try to justify its repression by the presence of South Korea but it is standard of totalitarian governments to justify their tyranny by reference to an outside nonexistent threat. The South did not invade the North in 1950 and they are not a threat to do so now.

No, but the Kims weren't ruling Vietnam either.

But even at Chernobyl there was no nuclear/mushroom cloud type explosion.

 

As for who violated the TReaty of Geneva, you can confirm it from the followings ( I may be wrong about the exact time of such declaration, but the sequence was correct, as the cancellation of the supplying Diesel was the cause of NK's declaration of the restarting the Nuke activities)

http://newsfromrussia.com/main/2003/01/08/41714.html

This is the Pravda report. I hope you may not ignore as a lie just because it is Russian.

I hope you would not say French media are liars too.

Here are the site saying Bush is misleading the world:

http://resistance.chiffonrouge.org/article.php3?id_article=122


This context is also important for explaining why the Bush Administration would deliberately mislead the world public, using the nuclear issue as a pretext for imposing economic and political measures in an attempt to bring about the collapse of North Korea.



The whole free world is cheated by news media as well !!!

 

This may be too lengthy Chronology about Nuke of NK.

http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/SKorea/Nuclear/3045_4364.html

 

Re: Sex slaves in So. Korea and US Military:

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-370588.php

Here's a link I found re: N&S Korea:

http://www.geocities.com/mokkim/koreahistory.html

 

Some of the evidences were already posted above. Maybe only US citizens believe that NK violated the Treaty first.

The main problem on this issue is that SOFA agreement (Status of Forces Agreement) didn't allow Korean prosecutors any indictment of US army and even the US civilians for any of their criminals during the past 50 years since 1950. There have been much protests from the Korean citizens for the amendment of the SOFA agreement, then US made a little concession, which means the seperation between the criminals caused during the official activities and the criminals caused by the private activities of GI's and US civilians. For the private criminals Korea has the priority to exercise the judicial right since around 2000. However, even thereafter none of US criminals have been jailed so far, excusing for the insufficient evidence or they didn't show up at the court ignoring the local authoritydespite the subpoena. Such agreement is much worse than that of Germany and Japan. As long as US do not change the agreement, I will maintain the same statement " To US army, raping and killing is not a crime, but a sport " There have been hundreds of murder cases, thousands of raping cases, but none of the US soldiers have been jailed even though there have been only a few arests.
You may disbelieve this fact, I will maintain the same stance.

I have been patient with your statement " Ridiculous, Lie, Vicous, etc" so far. I cannot explain so many thoughts on this board enough, even though I posted many lengthy posts so far. You may understand better what I am saying, if I talk with you in person. I am a Christian believer forgiven by His Grace, and have been trying to tell the truth. I am not a liar and have no intention to cheat you, or I can gain nothing by tellling lies to you.
If you repeat to say to me so, I would judge you as non-Christian like person and quit the debate with you.

Did I say that South invaded NK ? NK must admit their invasion to the South and they must apologize to SK. Kim Ilsung died without apology to the South, for his enormous sin.
You don't understand when I talk about the difference caused by the competition with South. Any government would try to survive and maintain the sovereignty. If there was no competition between South and North, if the situation became like Vietnam after the unification, there would have been no reason for NK to close its country and would have come to the international society. The war game of NK is partly a survival game to them. If US had continued the war till Korea was unified by accepting the request from Adm MacArthur, by bombing Manchuria, then the whole Korea would have succeeded and enjoyed the prosperity of free economy, but didn't do it. US has been ambiguous and changed the policies from time to time, which caused a lot more problem.

you don't understand my point here. Koreans are not less smart than Vietnamese. Are the Vietnamese starving? NK has a lot of resources. What is the reason for the poverty? Is it only because of Kim ?
You have not made the study on this issue so much as I have done.

No. Did I say that there arise mushroom by Missile attack on Nuke Power plants? Read carefully what I posted. Mushroom can arise when NK attack Tokyo with Nuke Warhead, or Nuke bombing. when they attack Atomic power plants, just disaster like Chernobyl.

 

You can imagine Korean Businessmen hiring Filippinos, Russian, Korean girls and the US officers are connected each other. Otherwise, they cannot run the business. If any incident like raping, violence, murder took place, Korean businessmen don't report the truth to the media or to local police etc. Otherwise, they lose the business.

I know many of the criminal cases, in person, thru media, and thru my boss of US company in Korea who was the CID commander of US army there. CID means Criminal Investigation Dept.