Jerry Walls wicked and profane question about God..part2

[SovereignGrace]

False dichotomy nonsense! 2 Cor 5:19 is about the ministry of reconciliation meaning God the Father was in Christ reconciling the world, which (in whole) was before at enmity with God, to himself. It was about taking away that enmity which could not otherwise be removed from the world (in whole) except in the blood of Christ. To try to twist and limit the meaning to be the “world of the elect” and add the false dilemma that it would otherwise have to mean that everyone got saved is otter systematic force-to- fit nonsense and distorts the very meaning of this MINISTRY of Christ which is spoken of.

namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.[2 Corinthians 5:19]

To be reconciled is to become friends again. Now, if that is true, and it is, it can not mean that the world, as in all whoever lived, are being reconciled, but those who believe. Those who die lost can never be considered reconciled to God. Neither can they be considered a friend of God. In James 2:23, James wrote and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. So, God is in Christ reconciling the world, but only those who believe will be reconciled.

 

[Benjamin]

namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.[2 Corinthians 5:19]

To be reconciled is to become friends again. Now, if that is true, and it is, it can not mean that the world, as in all whoever lived, are being reconciled, but those who believe. Those who die lost can never be considered reconciled to God. Neither can they be considered a friend of God. In James 2:23, James wrote and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. So, God is in Christ reconciling the world, but only those who believe will be reconciled.

You merely use more words to repeat the same false dilemma that this MINISTRY, of reconciliation involving God the Father being in Christ reconciling the world in the blood of Christ, must mean all must be saved while you attempt to build a strawman. The key element being reconciled is the work of the MINISTRY which before this was that ALL men were at that enmity, which could not otherwise be removed than by the blood of the Son of God. There is no claim of individual salvific reconciliation present as election is clearly not the subject but rather the MINISTRY of Christ is the subject and that it is adequate to do the great work of reconciling the whole human race to God, by making atonement for their sins.

 

[Iconoclast]

"steaver,
(So you diligently teach your children everyone should love God for God commands He should be loved. You feel children can understand this, right? )


No...your thinking is off track,non biblical, that is why you struggle as you do...we teach what God declares.
No one can properly understand God's Word unless enabled by the Spirit of God.


(But you do not feel children can understand that God does not in turn love everyone, so you withhold this information from them. )



Where did I say this?....why do you feel the need to invent such evil and God dishonouring thoughts as you do.here
There is no truth of God that needs to be witheld.
Ephesians 1-3...is loaded with election and predestination, and yet Paul is found addressing the children in chap6.

 

[Iconoclast]

There is none....tis why I brought it up. It is a Calvinism tenet not found in the Scripture. But now you seem to suggest a person can believe without being given a new heart by God? Now which comes first in your theology? The New Heart or Belief? If it is the New Heart then yes God makes the person believe, it's that simple. Of course this is un-biblical, but you already said as much.

I cannot help your lack of reading comprehension. ..that causes you to keep offering your slimy comments...saying it seems like you are saying, it seems like this or that.
If you cannot directly quote me. ..stop offering these seedy ideas you have as if I am offering. it.

 

[SovereignGrace]

"steaver,
(So you diligently teach your children everyone should love God for God commands He should be loved. You feel children can understand this, right? )


No...your thinking is off track,non biblical, that is why you struggle as you do...we teach what God declares.
No one can properly understand God's Word unless enabled by the Spirit of God.


(But you do not feel children can understand that God does not in turn love everyone, so you withhold this information from them. )



Where did I say this?....why do you feel the need to invent such evil and God dishonouring thoughts as you do.here
There is no truth of God that needs to be witheld.
Ephesians 1-3...is loaded with election and predestination, and yet Paul is found addressing the children in chap6.

“Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.[Deuteronomy 6:4-7]

We are to teach our kids at all times, whenever possible. I am sure you did this to your children, Brother.

 

[Rockson]

There is a problem with your analogy, imo. Those who are being reconciled are also not having their sins credited to their account. To reconcile means to make two adversaries friends. Now, if He is reconciling(making the world...all whoever lived as you are using the word ‘world’ to mean) everybody, then everybody will be saved.

Yes that is good news isn't it...that those being reconciled or better put have been reconciled don't have their sins credited to their account. The WORLD has been stamped with redemption! Well does this therefore mean ALL WILL make heaven their home? NO. One must move this into the realm of reality or the place of realization by coming into agreement with the reconciliation.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.For with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10

That is to say you acknowledge Jesus is Lord and what Jesus did on the Cross and Resurrection was for your salvation...righteousness that if the righteousness of God HAS been provided for you. You hear that message and then you have a choice....to believe unto this righteousness or not. There's no other way to demonstrate one comes into agreement with this other than what they declare about it, or as the scripture has said, "confession is made UNTO...UNTO, salvation." Rom 10:10 The message we're to give to the sinner is that salvation HAS already been provided for them....be therefore reconciled to God. The problem I have with dear Calvinistic brethren is that they'd find it difficult to boldly tell those outside of Christ that salvation has been provided for them. I'm actually mystified as to what some of you folk tell the sinner. Maybe somebody can tell me.

 

[steaver]

"steaver,
(So you diligently teach your children everyone should love God for God commands He should be loved. You feel children can understand this, right? )

No...your thinking is off track,non biblical, that is why you struggle as you do...we teach what God declares. No one can properly understand God's Word unless enabled by the Spirit of God.

So your saying you do not teach your children God's Word because they cannot understand God's Word until God enables them??? Are you to wait until your child says "hey daddy, God has enabled me now so you can start teaching me God's Word".

Earlier when I asked you, you implied you did teach them according to Duet 6....when I asked....

"Question for you. Do you obey the following or is it not for us today....

"And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up." (Deut 6)"

Which you replied....

"why would you suggest I do not do this?"

It appears my tough questions are getting you a bit off balanced.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I am actually mystified as to what some of you folk tell the sinner. Maybe somebody can tell me.

Repent and believe the gospel.[Mark 1:15]

 

[InTheLight]

Repent and believe the gospel.[Mark 1:15]

So the sinner needs to do something. I thought Calvinism teaches sinners are spiritually dead men incapable of doing anything God requires.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Iconoclast]

steaver,

So your saying you do not

No....this is exactly the problem...I did not post that , and you bear false witness by saying so..
here is what I just posted to you;
Where did I say this?....why do you feel the need to invent such evil and God dishonouring thoughts as you do.here
There is no truth of God that needs to be withheld.
Ephesians 1-3...is loaded with election and predestination, and yet Paul is found addressing the children in chap6.

teach your children God's Word because they cannot understand God's Word until God enables them???

In post 89 i answered this quite clearly....if you decide to ignore it and remain ignorant of truth, then bear false witness that is all on you...if you lack reading comprehension ...phone a friend;
part of what i said;
I do not speculate about what God may have decided or not...

I do speak of God electing a multitude before the world was...and they all will come to Jesus when He draws them.
long before you were born to leave you condemned to hell, it's not up to you??
I do not have your distorted view of the doctrines of grace, so I do not have to unwind this yarn you are spinning....

I tell them....we are all sinners....God is going to save a multitude of sinners...but not all. Those who do not trust in Jesus will perish. If they do not trust Jesus they will perish, Mom and Dad cannot save you....If you are going to be saved Jesus will have to do it.
There is no need for your dreadful speculation or whatever way you think to lie to your children as if that was going to change things.

Are you to wait until your child says "hey daddy, God has enabled me now so you can start teaching me God's Word".

What an idiotic statement on your part...we faithfully declare truth ...at all times....Who is allowed to welcome it is up to God. Why is this a mystery to you?

Earlier when I asked you, you implied you did teach them according to Duet 6....when I asked....

Again...no one cares what you think it seemed like, or was implied, I have had this problem with you before....I do not need a spokesmen, or an interpreter......deal with what i post.....not what you try and distort it to...thanks so much in advance for correcting your M.O>

 

[Iconoclast]

So the sinner needs to do something. I thought Calvinism teaches sinners are spiritually dead men incapable of doing anything God requires.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Did jesus command the man with the withered man to"stretch forth his hand"? or the crippled man to "rise up and walk"? these were things they could not do...unless God enabled them to....Lazarus...come forth....get it....

 

[InTheLight]

Did jesus command the man with the withered man to"stretch forth his hand"? or the crippled man to "rise up and walk"? these were things they could not do...unless God enabled them to....Lazarus...come forth....get it....

Yes, I get that Jesus performing these miracles were actual events used to prove that he was the son of God. They were not intended to be some sort of retroactive metaphor of Calvinist theology.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes, I get that Jesus performing these miracles were actual events used to prove that he was the son of God. They were not intended to be some sort of retroactive metaphor of Calvinist theology.

Salvation takes the same exact Supernatural power to affect salvation and bring a dead sinner to life regenerating him and giving him a new heart in Salvation that's the very point so we preach the gospel to all men and the Holy Spirit does what he does in the Unseen Realm

 

[InTheLight]

Salvation takes the same exact Supernatural power to affect salvation and bring a dead sinner to life regenerating him and giving him a new heart in Salvation

Yes, this is known as a metaphor. Jesus was not raising people from the dead, giving sight to the blind, healing the sick, etc. so that Calvinist's could use actual historical events as a theological metaphor.

 

[Rockson]

Repent and believe the gospel.[Mark 1:15]

And is there anything in your presentation if you're preaching to a crowd which says Christ died for YOUR sins according to the scriptures? Is there anything in which you say to the crowd God loves them and sent Jesus to die for their sins? If one in the crowd stood up and asked how can any of us have faith to believe if it's just the lucky ones or the especially blessed ones which you inwardly believe are the only ones who are going to get it?

 

[steaver]

"Question for you. Do you obey the following or is it not for us today....

"And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up." (Deut 6)"

Which you replied....

"why would you suggest I do not do this?"

Again...no one cares what you think it seemed like, or was implied, I have had this problem with you before....I do not need a spokesmen, or an interpreter......deal with what i post.....not what you try and distort it to...thanks so much in advance for correcting your M.O>

I have dealt with your post. It is difficult to follow along when you keep changing your answers. This is why I have to keep asking you questions. So why don't you take another stab at it and clearly answer whether or not you teach your children to love God as Duet 6 teaches us, or if you do not because they cannot understand God's Word unless God enables them through the rebirth?

 

[SovereignGrace]

So the sinner needs to do something. I thought Calvinism teaches sinners are spiritually dead men incapable of doing anything God requires.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Seeing that repentance of God, yes lost ppl need to repent. Acts 5:31, Acts 11:18, Romans 2:4, 2 Timothy 2:25 all show true repentance comes from God and is then exercised by those He draws.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And is there anything in your presentation if you're preaching to a crowd which says Christ died for YOUR sins according to the scriptures? Is there anything in which you say to the crowd God loves them and sent Jesus to die for their sins? If one in the crowd stood up and asked how can any of us have faith to believe if it's just the lucky ones or the especially blessed ones which you inwardly believe are the only ones who are going to get it?

I tell them God sent His Son into the world to save sinners. If they truly seek Him, they will find Him. That He welcomes all who comes to Him.

As Iconoclast previously posted, I guess Hitler’s mom told him Jesus loves him. I guess Osama Bin Laden’s momma told him God loves him and has a wonderful plan for his life.

I guess Vlad Dracula’s mother told him how wonderful God is, too.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes, this is known as a metaphor. Jesus was not raising people from the dead, giving sight to the blind, healing the sick, etc. so that Calvinist's could use actual historical events as a theological metaphor.

The miracles are instructive....you deny it to whatever extent...I believe it.

That is between you and God.....I can only offer what I see....God alone gives eyesight.

 

[Iconoclast]

"steaver,

I have dealt with your post.

yes...by avoiding the answers given.

It is difficult to follow along

hmmm.....no one else seems to be struggling to understand, just you.

when you keep changing your answers.

no...just clarifying what you did not understand.

This is why I have to keep asking you questions.

No..what you do is obvious....everyone knows...

So why don't you take another stab at it

No need to....you cannot answer to what was offered....