Jesus called "believe", and, therefore, "faith"", a "work".

[Van]

No, we are not chosen through faith.
We were chosen by grace, before the world began. We didn't physically exist then, yet God chose us. Therefore, faith has nothing to do with us being chosen.

I can read and for you to make false claims about 2 Thessalonians 2:13 is unhelpful.
The beginning refers to the beginning of the New Covenant in Christ's blood. See Romans 4:23-25
We once were not a people chosen for God's own possession (1 Peter 2:10), Ephesians 1:4 refers to our corporate election before we were even created.

 

[AustinC]

I can read and for you to make false claims about 2 Thessalonians 2:13 is unhelpful.
The beginning refers to the beginning of the New Covenant in Christ's blood. See Romans 4:23-25
We once were not a people chosen for God's own possession (1 Peter 2:10), Ephesians 1:4 refers to our corporate election before we were even created.

We have gone over this. Please acknowledge that your theological opinion on this is in the vast minority.

 

[robycop3]

Ephesians 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Why waste time & thought trying to define works? If one has true faith in Jesus, one will do works, simple as THAT ![/COLOR]

 

[AustinC]

Ephesians 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Why waste time & thought trying to define works? If one has true faith in Jesus, one will do works, simple as THAT !

It is faith, given as a gift to the one made alive by grace, that accomplishes the work God has ordained us to do.

*Ephesians 2:4-13*
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

 

[Silverhair]

No, we are not chosen through faith.
We were chosen by grace, before the world began. We didn't physically exist then, yet God chose us. Therefore, faith has nothing to do with us being chosen.

This is just another example of you not trusting scripture.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

Rom 3:29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

Gal 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"),
Gal 3:14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Eph 3:16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man,
Eph 3:17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

Col 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Col 2:12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

2Ti 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1Pe 1:5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Silverhair]

It is faith, given as a gift to the one made alive by grace, that accomplishes the work God has ordained us to do.

*Ephesians 2:4-13*
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Austin this has been pointed out to a number of times now but you just refuse to accept the truth, salvation is the gift of God not faith. Faith in the required condition before God will, via His grace, save you.

Grace means salvation completely apart from any merit or works on our part. Grace means that God does it all for Jesus’ sake! Our salvation is the gift of God. (The word that in Eph_2:8, in the Greek, is neuter; while faith is feminine. Therefore that cannot refer to faith. It refers to the whole experience of salvation, including faith.) Salvation is a gift, not a reward. Wiersbe Bible Commentary

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Your continued abuse of scripture is well noted on this board, it is time that you just trust what the Holy Spirit says

 

[AustinC]

Austin this has been pointed out to a number of times now but you just refuse to accept the truth, salvation is the gift of God not faith. Faith in the required condition before God will, via His grace, save you.

Please quote the verse that says "I require you to have your own faith before I will save you.

Grace means salvation completely apart from any merit or works on our part. Grace means that God does it all for Jesus’ sake! Our salvation is the gift of God. (The word that in Eph_2:8, in the Greek, is neuter; while faith is feminine. Therefore that cannot refer to faith. It refers to the whole experience of salvation, including faith.) Salvation is a gift, not a reward. Wiersbe Bible Commentary

Salvation is a gracious gift and as you rightly state, faith comes along with that gift. Faith is not there, in a spiritually dead man's will, before God graciously makes the dead person alive with Christ. Sliverhair, you convince me that if you had your way, you would cut Ephesians 2:4-5 from your Bible so that you could glory in yourself as the cause of your faith, rather than give praise and glory to God alone.

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God

is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Looky there. God's gift, to all those He elects, is eternal life.

Your continued abuse of scripture is well noted on this board, it is time that you just trust what the Holy Spirit says

Your continued neglect of the whole of scripture is noted on this board as you piecemeal scripture to fit your humanism and openly reject the Holy Spirit doing the work without needing or requiring your assistance.

 

[Silverhair]

Please quote the verse that says "I require you to have your own faith before I will save you.



Salvation is a gracious gift and as you rightly state, faith comes along with that gift. Faith is not there, in a spiritually dead man's will, before God graciously makes the dead person alive with Christ. Sliverhair, you convince me that if you had your way, you would cut Ephesians 2:4-5 from your Bible so that you could glory in yourself as the cause of your faith, rather than give praise and glory to God alone.


Looky there. God's gift, to all those He elects, is eternal life.


Your continued neglect of the whole of scripture is noted on this board as you piecemeal scripture to fit your humanism and openly reject the Holy Spirit doing the work without needing or requiring your assistance.

For someone that claims that they trust the whole of scripture you do jump through a lot of hoops to deny it.

Why do you not believe scripture Austin are you afraid that your neatly constructed theology will collapse all around you. You can deny the truth but it is still the truth.
Gal 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. And that is something that you can not change no matter what your pagan philosophy tells you.

A theology that comes from a bad root will produce bad fruit. That is the reality you will have to live with. You can not change history. Even as much as you would like to do so.

 

[AustinC]

For someone that claims that they trust the whole of scripture you do jump through a lot of hoops to deny it.

Why do you not believe scripture Austin are you afraid that your neatly constructed theology will collapse all around you. You can deny the truth but it is still the truth.
Gal 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. And that is something that you can not change no matter what your pagan philosophy tells you.

A theology that comes from a bad root will produce bad fruit. That is the reality you will have to live with. You can not change history. Even as much as you would like to do so.

Sliverhair, your ears and eyes seem to be shut and your incapacity to read and comprehend my responses is obvious since I have answered this slur of yours on multiple occasions, showing you, each time, how your are wrong in your interpretation. Therefore, I will simply post emojis when you act foolish, like you have done here.

 

[Silverhair]

Sliverhair, your ears and eyes seem to be shut and your incapacity to read and comprehend my responses is obvious since I have answered this slur of yours on multiple occasions, showing you, each time, how your are wrong in your interpretation. Therefore, I will simply post emojis when you act foolish, like you have done here.

I post scripture and you post emojis. Yep sure got to be concerned about your insightful responses.

 

[AustinC]

I post scripture and you post emojis. Yep sure got to be concerned about your insightful responses.

 

[Alan Gross]

I found the coolest info at this site.

It was a resource listed by one of KenH's sister churches.

I find their stance and approach to this subject very appropriate.

False Religion

 

[AustinC]

I found the coolest info at this site.

It was a resource listed by one of KenH's sister churches.

I find their stance and approach to this subject very appropriate.

False Religion

Thank you for the link. I just read through "The Humanism of Arminianism" by Oscar R Mink. That article is quite scathing and yet it points its finger directly upon the person here at the BB whom I understand to be humanist in his teaching.

 

[Alan Gross]

Thank you for the link. I just read through "The Humanism of Arminianism" by Oscar R Mink. That article is quite scathing and yet it points its finger directly upon the person here at the BB whom I understand to be humanist in his teaching.

Anytime you see the name Oscar Mink devour it! I don't care if it's his grocery list!! Lol! Can't be too scathing IMHO. Especially if it would work!

 

[Silverhair]

Thank you for the link. I just read through "The Humanism of Arminianism" by Oscar R Mink. That article is quite scathing and yet it points its finger directly upon the person here at the BB whom I understand to be humanist in his teaching.

The article is more fit for the funny papers than in serious reading. Well at least I know where your off the wall ideas come from. Now what emoji are you going to use this time.

 

[AustinC]

The article is more fit for the funny papers than in serious reading. Well at least I know where your off the wall ideas come from. Now what emoji are you going to use this time.

 

[George Antonios]

John 6:29; "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

i.e. "this is what God wants you to do".

Just as Paul and Silas who answered the question "what must I do?"

How about divesting terms from their theological pre-suppositions for a nano-second, yes?

 

[Silverhair]

i.e. "this is what God wants you to do".

Just as Paul and Silas who answered the question "what must I do?"

How about divesting terms from their theological pre-suppositions for a nano-second, yes?

Now you know that Austin and a few others on BB can not or rather will not do that. I have tried to use scripture to point them in the right direction but that does not seem to have had any impact on them.

 

[Silverhair]

Now you know that Austin and a few others on BB can not or rather will not do that. I have tried to use scripture to point them in the right direction but that does not seem to have had any impact on them.

Actually it is not funny Austin. Since you seem to think that scripture is funny that says a great deal about your lack of spirituality or biblical understanding.

 

[Alan Gross]

i.e. "this is what God wants you to do".

I can't arrive at changing the word 'work' to 'want', in any manner.

The context of the preceding verse involves Jews asking Jesus what other or more 'work' they needed to do, under the Law, that they hadn't already done, to win God's favor, and be able to multiply food, etc.

John 6:28; "Then said they unto him,
What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?"

They aren't asking to be saved or asking how to be saved.

To suggest an interpretation, any plausible interpretation advanced must make sense.

These Jews wanted to be able to 'work' the ability to multiply food, because they "did eat of the loaves, and were filled", the way Jesus had just done with the bread.

Jesus answers them and explains what God does and finds important.

32 "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

33 "For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

After this information, these Jews wanted still wanted bread.

34 "Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread".

Jesus answered them about salvation, again;

35 "And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst."

And Jesus still told them that they don't/ won't/ haven't believed.

John 6:36 "But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

The 'work' that Jesus spoke about, in context, is the will of the Father;

29 "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

Rather than 'want', the substitute may need to be, the will of the Father, for 'the work of God'.

the work of God';

= "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me;

= the will of him that sent me.

= this is the Father's will

= the will of him that sent me,

Salvation is the work of God.

Salvation is the will of God.

Salvation is the Activity of God.

37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

In the Eternal Activity the GODHEAD has agreed within their three Divine Persons to accomplish the Covenant and Plan of Salvation for God's Elect children,

so God the Father and God the Son do the will of God, which Jesus calls, "work".

John 5:17a; "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."

Just as Paul and Silas who answered the question "what must I do?"

Again, this jailer wanted to know what other work(s) under the Jewish Law he must do (work).

After all the jailer had witnessed ( Lydia’s Conversion in Philippi(?), the slave girl with a spirit of divination saved, and Paul and Silas being punished for it; 16:23; "after striking them with many blows, they threw them into prison and ordered the jailer to guard them securely) and heard ( preaching about the Gospel from Paul and Silas, etc.) and been through (a strong earthquake, etc.) God had his soul awakened to his need of being rescued.

The answer given is not something to do (works) under the Law), but the evidence of him having a saving knowledge of his sins being responsible for nailing Jesus to the cross and Him dying.

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:31

Once Paul and Silas made that proclamation, what happened?

They preached the Word to him and his house, for the Holy Spirit to use it to save their souls;

32 "Then Paul and Silas spoke the word of the Lord to him and to everyone in his house."

How about divesting terms from their theological pre-suppositions for a nano-second, yes?

Then said they unto him,
What shall we want, that we might want what God wants"

""this is what God wants that He wants to do for you"
that ye want to believe on him whom he hath sent;

"They said therefore unto him
what sign showest thou then, that we may see and believe thee?
what dost thou want to show us that is what we want?(?)

26 "Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled."

i.e., Work not for perishable bread, but if you are going to work, search the scriptures for in them you think you have Eternal Life,

and if you do find the bread of Life, it is because Jesus Gave it to you.

27 "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed."