Jesus Christ Shed His Blood for Judas

[AustinC]

so are yours!

I don't doubt this. It is clear you tire of God's word.

 

[37818]

You do agree that anyone who truely believes in God's Christ had changed one's mind to do so?

@SavedByGrace. You seem not to understand a gender neutral -wording.
Maybe you can understand:
Do you not agree that anyone who truely believes in God's Christ had changed his or her mind to do so?

 

[SavedByGrace]

@SavedByGrace. You seem not to understand a gender neutral -wording.
Maybe you can understand:
Do you not agree that anyone who truely believes in God's Christ had changed his or her mind to do so?

that is obvious, but what is your point?

 

[AustinC]

that is obvious, but what is your point?

If it's obvious, then you know the point.

 

[SavedByGrace]

If it's obvious, then you know the point.

are you here trying to say that a person can be saved by simply "changing their mind", as to certain Truths in the Bible, but this "change" does not require repentance?

 

[Van]

Sigh...you get scripture and less "verbiage" than you use. Your false claims are tiresome, Van.

Yet another deflection, attacking the poster but running from the topic. Tiresome indeed.

 

[AustinC]

are you here trying to say that a person can be saved by simply "changing their mind", as to certain Truths in the Bible, but this "change" does not require repentance?

Nope. That is not what God says.
What does God tell us regarding the means of salvation?
How are we saved?
Answer: We are saved by grace, through God's gift of faith.
And here's the key statement: And that, not of yourselves, it is the gift of God so no one can boast.
Salvation is entirely by God, not by the will of man. Therefore, repentance is always an effect of God's saving grace, not a cause of God's saving grace.
Repentance, by definition, is a turning toward one thing, away from another. 1 Thessalonians 1 beautifully expresses the effect of God's salvation on the Thessalonians in that they began repenting once they were saved. This effect of repentance is noticeable to the rebel who will not, by their own will, repent. God must save them first, then they will repent. A person who claims to be saved, but shows no repentance (i.e. our current President) is lying about their salvation. The effect of salvation is repentance.

Where we disagree is that you are claiming unregenerate rebels repent first, which causes God's grace to be extended.

I am saying that God's grace is extended, which causes a rebel to be redeemed and the effect is repentance.

 

[Yeshua1]

so WHAT makes YOU so special that God should "elect" YOU to salvation? Tell us, WHAT exactly is God's basis for electing YOU, and not the greater majority of people, who the Bible says will end up in hell? This doctrine is so UNBIBLICAL because it makes some sinners who are hell-deserving, into so sort of "elite" class of people, who then go around all sumg, tell others that Jesus ONLY died for the likes of them! What complete RUBBISH!

I am no better then anyone else, as I am a sinner who God chose to save and redeem period, as I had nothing that he needed, but He is all and all to me!

I know of no Calvinist who thinks that they deserve the grace and mercy of God, that we merit it due to being superior!

 

[Yeshua1]

this is what the Bible says about Judas:

"For whoever will give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because you are Christ's, most certainly I tell you, he will in no way lose his reward" (Mark 9:41)

Jesus here is speaking to the Twelve, including Judas, as says to all of them, "you are Christ's", that is, "belong to Him". Can this be said of those who are not saved?

Jesus also told His Disciples, "Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” (John 6:70)

Judas was one of the "chosen" by Jesus Christ, exactly as the other 11 were. Again, in Luke 9:1, we read, "And he called the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases". Where Judas is also given "power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases". Can this be true of someone who is not a saved person? Acts 1:25 says of Judas, "to take up this ministry and apostleship, which Judas abandoned to go to his rightful place.”. That he did belong with the 12, and did have the same gifts and power and authority as the others, having being "called" to the ministry by Jesus Himself. Judas was an "Apostle" of the Lord Jesus Christ, but "abandoned" all of this, when he gave into the devil.

Judas was a devil from the beginning, is that a saved person?

 

[SavedByGrace]

God chose to save and redeem period

WHY? WHY? WHY? At least we know from the Bible why God chose Israel as His People, but NO Reformed person can ever say WHY them???

 

[SavedByGrace]

Judas was a devil from the beginning, is that a saved person?

well, I have given Bible texts, you can make what you want with them!

 

[Yeshua1]

how about checking the Greek? the words, "of him that betrayeth", is from the Greek, παραδιδόντος, the verb is in the present tense, showing that Judas was WITH Jesus when He was speaking! Literal translation is, "the hand of he who is betraying me, is still with me at the table". That is why the KJV added "is", because it is what the Greek text says!

ESV, But behold, the hand of him who betrays me is with me on the table.
NASB, "But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Mine on the table.
HCSB, But look, the hand of the one betraying Me is at the table with Me!
CEV, The one who will betray me is here at the table with me!
NIV, But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table.
NLT, “But here at this table, sitting among us as a friend, is the man who will betray me.
NET, "But look, the hand of the one who betrays me is with me on the table.
NAS, “But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Me on the table.
ASV, But behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
ERV, But behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
Weymouth, Yet the hand of him who is betraying me is at the table with me.
Webster, But behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table
Young, But, lo, the hand of him delivering me up is with me on the table
WEb, But behold, the hand of him who betrays me is with me on the table.

Jesus called Judas Son of perdition, satan himself entered into Him, was that a saved person?

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus has paid the price, but unless the sinner "repents and believes", they cannot be saved!

Jesus died for/in the place of sinners in hell?

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 730 pm est / 430 pdt

 

[AustinC]

WHY? WHY? WHY? At least we know from the Bible why God chose Israel as His People, but NO Reformed person can ever say WHY them???

We see that Israel was no better than any other person. In fact, Israel was a schemer and scoundrel. There was nothing about Israel that God should choose him.

So, show us in scripture why God chose Israel and not Esau.

Job imagines he has a legitimate argument with God, stating that he was righteous and therefore God needed to answer his "why" questions. God comes in a whirlwind and immediately begins questioning and grilling Job. Job is left speechless and humbled, knowing that he has nothing to say before God.

You are demanding that God tell you "why, why, why" yet you are clueless about God and do not know who you are addressing. Do you wish God would come to you in a whirlwind and grill you with questions? Do you really understand how wretched you are and how utterly undeserving you are of God's mercy and grace? If you saw yourself as God sees you, you would fall on your face, shut your mouth and pray for mercy.

Rebels never see themselves as the problem. They blame God and come at God with questions as to God's integrity. They will not repent until God makes them aware of their wretchedness. Stop with your ungodly claim that rebels are required to repent first before God can act. That teaching is utter foolishness. Show rebels their lawbreaking and their wretchedness before the King and then pray that the King is merciful in granting pardon which causes a man to repent. Never teach that God "cannot" save until...
The Sovereign God has zero obligation to tell you why He chooses pardon for some and guilt for others. He does what He chooses and you must live with Him never telling you why. You have to deal with that reality. Or...expect God to come in a whirlwind and grill you until you repent.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus called Judas Son of perdition, satan himself entered into Him, was that a saved person?

have you checked what the Bible says?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus died for/in the place of sinners in hell?

indeed, He did!

 

[SavedByGrace]

We see that Israel was no better than any other person. In fact, Israel was a schemer and scoundrel. There was nothing about Israel that God should choose him.

So, show us in scripture why God chose Israel and not Esau.

Job imagines he has a legitimate argument with God, stating that he was righteous and therefore God needed to answer his "why" questions. God comes in a whirlwind and immediately begins questioning and grilling Job. Job is left speechless and humbled, knowing that he has nothing to say before God.

You are demanding that God tell you "why, why, why" yet you are clueless about God and do not know who you are addressing. Do you wish God would come to you in a whirlwind and grill you with questions? Do you really understand how wretched you are and how utterly undeserving you are of God's mercy and grace? If you saw yourself as God sees you, you would fall on your face, shut your mouth and pray for mercy.

Rebels never see themselves as the problem. They blame God and come at God with questions as to God's integrity. They will not repent until God makes them aware of their wretchedness. Stop with your ungodly claim that rebels are required to repent first before God can act. That teaching is utter foolishness. Show rebels their lawbreaking and their wretchedness before the King and then pray that the King is merciful in granting pardon which causes a man to repent. Never teach that God "cannot" save until...
The Sovereign God has zero obligation to tell you why He chooses pardon for some and guilt for others. He does what He chooses and you must live with Him never telling you why. You have to deal with that reality. Or...expect God to come in a whirlwind and grill you until you repent.

“Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession” (Exodus 19:5)

“For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession. The LORD did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath he swore to your ancestors that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt.” (Deuteronomy 7:6-8)

“You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your sins.” (Amos 3:1-2)

 

[Iconoclast]

WHY? WHY? WHY? At least we know from the Bible why God chose Israel as His People, but NO Reformed person can ever say WHY them???

As a reformed person Moses tell us exactly why;Deut7
6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not b

 

[SavedByGrace]

As a reformed person Moses tell us exactly why;Deut7
6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not b

I have just posted this! But, it is conditional

"Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession” (Exodus 19:5)

Note the conditional "אִם", IF, at the start of this sentence. The "conditions" being, obey me fully and keep my covenant. And in many other places.