Jesus Christ: The Atonement For The Human Race

[Saved-By-Grace]

Once more. You gotta learn the difference between a text and a manuscript. If not you will not be able to keep up with the discussion.

Textual evidence comes from various sources. Greek, Latin, Syriac, etc, manuscripts. Then there are the quotes from the early Church fathers, then we have the early versions, like the old Latin, Syriac, Gothic, Coptic, etc. These are far more reliable than any "text" that someone or group put together, like the United Bible Society, which would reflect their Liberal theology, like that of Bruce Metzger, , Carlo Maria Martini, Eberhard Nestle, and the other Liberal bunch, Johann Jakob Griesbach, etc, etc

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

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I am speaking of the Calvinistic/Reformed understanding of "elect".

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I would agree that there are some positions of Calvinist/Reformed Theology that do cause harm, my least favorite being their belief that men are regenerated in order to have faith.

But...



...I would not call it doctrine of demons, simply error. Some of it is right, lol.




Not really. I think most Calvinists and Reformed believers would admit there is still a demand to witness for Christ, whether they think one is "Elect" or not. And most cannot properly answer when asked if babies go to Hell or not, except to say they do if they are non-elect.

But just curious, why so much emotion over Calvinism/Reformed Theology? This apparently has you pretty upset.


God bless.

Surely they should tell the world, that the Lord hates the greater majority of them, because this is exactly what their theology teaches!

 

[TCassidy]

I am speaking of the Calvinistic/Reformed understanding of "elect".

 

[TCassidy]

Textual evidence comes from various sources. Greek, Latin, Syriac, etc, manuscripts. Then there are the quotes from the early Church fathers, then we have the early versions, like the old Latin, Syriac, Gothic, Coptic, etc. These are far more reliable than any "text" that someone or group put together, like the United Bible Society, which would reflect their Liberal theology, like that of Bruce Metzger, , Carlo Maria Martini, Eberhard Nestle, and the other Liberal bunch, Johann Jakob Griesbach, etc, etc

No. Again, You gotta learn the difference between a text and a manuscript. If not you will not be able to keep up with the discussion.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am speaking of the Calvinistic/Reformed understanding of "elect".

And from what source getting our definition from?

 

[Yeshua1]

I am sorry to say this. But your position is very much a deceived one. Just ONE Scripture should tell ALL very clearly, if it is left to speak for itself, without corruption or twisting, the EXTENT of God's Incredible Love and Mercy for the lost HUMAN RACE. John 3:16, which has rightly been called, "The Gospel in A Nutshell". But even this the HATERS of the lost will TWIST!

God always dealt with saving out for Himself, electing some, not all to get saved, remember Noah and His family, and the Jews at time of Elijah still faithful to Him?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

No. Again, You gotta learn the difference between a text and a manuscript. If not you will not be able to keep up with the discussion.

in your opinion. I know what I hold to for over 35 years in Textual Studies.

 

[Yeshua1]

sort that out with the Lord. you guys show so much HATE towards the lost, that it sickens the Good Lord!

IF we hated the lost so much, why are we the ones the most involved in missionary outreach though?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

God always dealt with saving out for Himself, electing some, not all to get saved, remember Noah and His family, and the Jews at time of Elijah still faithful to Him?

how about the fact, that the nation Israel was God "elect", and the "apple of His eye", and yet God rejected them as His "elect nation"? Paul argues this very thing in Romans 9-11, where he warns Gentile believers that they too could be "cut off"/ So much for your "election"!

 

[Yeshua1]

sort that out with the Lord. you guys show so much HATE towards the lost, that it sickens the Good Lord!

Just a simple yes or no will suffice!

 

[Yeshua1]

Calvinistic/Reformed theology has done VERY MUCH damage to the pure Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, by pushing what I believe to be "doctrines of demons", and doing the devils work for him against God and the Holy Bible.

Than you MUST be stating here that we preach another and false Gospel, and are not even saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

Why are "Calvinists" always RIGHT? Why don't Calvinists remain true to their theology, and when preaching on John 3:16, tell the people what you honestly believe, that God does NOT love the entire human race, that He wants them ALL saved? Not just that Jesus died for the entire human race, but that He also wants ALL to come to Him for salvation. Why not tell the lost world that God actively HATES some of you because you are worse sinners that the "elect", and will damn their souls to eternal punishment? This is what Reformed theology actually teaches, so why not tell this in your messages and books?

Those who are lost can only blame themselves and not God. correct?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

IF we hated the lost so much, why are we the ones the most involved in missionary outreach though?

through duty. Why do you suppose we have the likes of Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, Rob Bell, etc, etc? Because the "Reformed" teaching that excluded the majority in their theology, drove these people away from the hard line, love lacking Churches that are thankfully on the decline.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Than you MUST be stating here that we preach another and false Gospel, and are not even saved!

The Reformed teaching of the Cross and who Jesus wants saved, does NOT agree with the Bible, except when verses have been so twisted that they say what these believe.

 

[Yeshua1]

how about the fact, that the nation Israel was God "elect", and the "apple of His eye", and yet God rejected them as His "elect nation"? Paul argues this very thing in Romans 9-11, where he warns Gentile believers that they too could be "cut off"/ So much for your "election"!

God rejected those who were jews by physical birth who were faithless in Him, see those lost in 40 years of the wilderness, but God saved and spared those who were really spiritual israel in the OT!

 

[Yeshua1]

The Reformed teaching of the Cross and who Jesus wants saved, does NOT agree with the Bible, except when verses have been so twisted that they say what these believe.

Correction, does not agree with your understanding of them!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

And from what source getting our definition from?

your THEOLOGY

 

[Yeshua1]

Surely they should tell the world, that the Lord hates the greater majority of them, because this is exactly what their theology teaches!

Not hate as you would see it, but that he loves His Covenant people the most!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Correction, does not agree with your understanding of them!

so WHO does John 3:16, for example include?