, they did not suffer physical death on the day that they ate of the tree, did they? No. "Death" here is something more. With this difference of opinion, the rest of the argument falls apart.
In fact, death did enter the scene from the first day.
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.
Then the first death of an animal is recorded -
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Here is another telling verse. Clearly, in the day that Adam sinned, death entered the world -
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Clearly, death entered world on this day, as is confirmed by scripture.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
But for you to refute the science is at the heart of the matter. This, to me, seems to be an admission that the facts are not on your side so you had just as soon talk about something else.
Have you ever seen a scientific textbook? What revision was it on?? That is the point - scientific textbooks change almost yearly as science ebs and flows. The word of God (Bible) never changes. God doesn't change. He got it right the first time. My point is, that the Bible is ultimate truth. It is correct in it's entirety. No part of it is untrue - but especially Genesis. I have shown you how evolution is impossible and confirmed it with several scriptures. The ONLY recourse you have is to deny the Bible's truth.
I could spend all day on this message board giving you scientific facts and evidence that supports the Bible, or I can spend an hour or two giving you the Bible - the truth that doesn't change. That is the difference between debating with Christians and debating with non-christians.
I am not admitting defeat in the scientific arena, I am arguing in the realm which is far above the scientific arena. I am arguing higher facts that outrank science. The Bible is clearly more authoritative than any scientific textbook.
And the evidence, from God's own Creation, is overwhelming that the universe is ancient. If you disagree, then there is a whole lot of refuting you have to do. Starting with the topics above.
In fact, this is ONLY true if your interpretive framework is to assume that the earth is millions of years old. Once you start believing the Bible's account, you will see - as we do - that in fact all the evidence that you 'thought' was overwhelming actually supports young creation. Often, the same exact evidence that is used to 'prove' evolution or millions of years, given time for re-interpretation goes to prove young creation.
For example - the Grand Canyon. Geologists have always thought that the Grand Canyon took millions of years to be carved away by the Colorado River. However, that idea has been now challenged by such events such as the Burlingame Canyon near Walla Walla, Washington which was OBSERVED to be formed in 6 days! A 120 foot deep canyon in 6 days!
AiG Article
However, BY FAR, the most convincing evidence for young creation is the Bible. I have showed you how the Bible supports this irrefutably. Your only response to the scripture is that 'there are other interpretations of scripture, but lets look again at evolutionary science'.
No... lets look at the Bible. Clearly from what I have shown you about death, evolution and natural selection could not have lead up to Adam. Everything was declared good, and death, which is the result of sin, had not entered the scene - therefore no death = no fossils = no survival of the fittest, no mutation, no evolution. Adam was discreetly created ... he didn't evolve from any other animal. The Bible declares that, and then confirms that. There is no other interpretation. If you take the whole scripture - it supports ONLY a young earth interpretation.
Evolution is built upon 'millions of years of death and violence'. There was no death or violence before Man's fall. At man's fall, dominion of the earth passed from Man to Satan.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
We were created to be 'in charge of this world'. However, we lost that to Satan at the Fall -
2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Jhn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.
We can see that, after the fall and pre-flood Satan was busy at work in his new role as 'prince of the earth':
Gen 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
So then, we can see that before the fall of Adam, God declares everything Good. There is no corruption of the creation... there is no violence in the creation... there is no death in the creation. Animals, for example didn't consume each other - only plants. Neither did man eat animals only plants.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.
It wasn't until after the flood that man was told they could eat meat.
Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
It can be seen that after the flood, we saw 'corruption' and 'violence' in animals. God said this was 'not good'. Clearly, leading up to and including the creation of man, God called everything Good. This,
again, confirms that there was no death, mutation, suffereing, violence, pain, etc. before the fall of man.
Without these things there is nothing to cause, control, or perform evolution. In fact, we can see that with no death (probably includes entropy and the 2nd law of thermodynamics) and no 'corruption' there were probably not even genetic copying mistakes before the fall. And why would there be - with the presence of God there, there is no room for death, sin, corruption, mistakes. Everything is being supernaturaly maintained and upheld. Death is truely separation from God - God is eternal.
Clearly the Bible describes a young earth perspective. Once you see this, your eyes will be opened to the overwhelming multitude of evidences in the physical realm that supports the Bible.
No, it was Gup20, and now you, who was practicing misdirection on this part. By the verse I quoted, it is obvious that the "death" meant was spiritual death, otherwise they would have suffered physical death the day they ate.
As I have shown you, they did just that. Because the process of death doesn't happen instantaneously doesn't mean the process didn't begin. Clearly, by the evidence of pain, suffering, thorns, etc, we see that death and corruption entered the earth in that very day.
I think that in the world of informal fallacies this fall under the category of Equivocation. You are using shifting defintions in an attempt to equate two things that are not equal.
There is no need for us to make this leap. God clearly connects the death that entered the world as described in Romans 5 with the physical earth in Genesis by describing actual physical, real world results of Adam's sin.
I believe enough evidence has been presented to demonstrate that Archaeopteryx is a fine example of a transitional creature. It possesed a wonderful mix of avian and reptilian features. So we have proven that this one has "stood the test of time."
Every expert has confirmed this was a full bird. Like I have said before... there was a continuum of creatures within each animal group to live in a continuum of created environments.
Clearly by the Bible verses I have shown you, millions of years is not possible or plausible, and neither is evolution leading and culminating in man. The Bible doesn't change... and it has always said that millions of years didn't happen.
So while your evolutionist textbooks will change, and eventually may find some truth... the bible is completely true and accurate. It holds and supports young creation above all other interpretations re-confirming this over and over.
God is the Creator. He caused all that we see to come into being. I believe the evidence shows that once He got the universe going that he did much of it through natural means. This, IMHO, makes it no less miraculous
While it may not be less miraculous, it isn't how the Creator says he did it. I prefer to take the creator at his word.
You have to also understand... God's word doesn't change. He knew when he inspired it's writers how far man would come technologically in our entire existance. His word doesn't change. This means that no matter how advanced we think we are, God's word still applies to us and is still relevant. A lot of people act like God's word was written for people in B.C. times to understand. In fact, it was writtin so that all mankind would find it true. Why? Because truth doesn't change. There is only one way it actually happened, and that will never change. How do I know this is true? Because there are still prophecies in the Bible tha have not happened yet. All the End Time information in the Bible tells me that the Bible was written with humans in mind that are in our future. If God knew what would happen in our future, he knew the people who would be reading his word in that future. Therefore, we can assume that everything in His word is still 100% relevant for us, and written not only for today and yesterday, but with people in our future who have come even farther technologically and knowlege wise as well as scientifically than we are today.
Therefore, since it was written to and for and about our past present and future, it applies to our past present and future the same. God wrote things plainly and clearly. He used precise language to convey his message. Therefore, following the most logical and clearest interpretation of what is written - regardless of what age of time it is read - will give you the correct interpretation.
THER living birds but which were clearly shared with the theropod dinosaurs?
