Jesus had a human nature?

[webdog]

Joining in late here guys----hope you don't mind

Yes---I stand firm on the impeccablility of the Lord Jesus Christ---He is not able----plus---He is not willing to sin

Now that the puzzle has been solved---maybe someone can answer this hypothetecal(sp) question----probably has nothin' to do with anything, though

but

What if------what if the Lord Jesus HAD sinned and become a sinner like you and I????

Now, I know He BECAME sin---but He never BECAME a sinner----becoming a sinner was and is an impossiblity for the Lord Jesus

But

What if??? What if He had become a sinner---what if He had sinned??

(1) What would that have made Him??

(2) Where would that have left us??

Remember we are dealing with a "What if" here

Bro. David
aka blackbird

Curious...if He was not able to sin, then He would not have been able to be tempted...yet Scripture is clear He was.

 

[annsni]

Curious...if He was not able to sin, then He would not have been able to be tempted...yet Scripture is clear He was.

If you read through what I typed up from Systematic Theology, you can see that Jesus could not have sinned because God cannot sin. However, He WAS tempted in His flesh to use His divinity to make things better for Himself and yet He had to use His humanness to resist that temptation. I hope that makes sense.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

it doesn't.

 

[Revmitchell]

Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Jesus was tempted as man is, felt the desire and urge to do as man does, and wanted to satisfy the flesh as man does. This was never made more clear than in the garden just prior to His crucficxion. One of the things that makes His sinnlessness so mazing is His ability to choose to go against His Father and yet not having done so. To see this any other way is to diminish His human nature. And in the end that just is not necessary.

The whole point of this portion of scripture is that when we come to God in prayer we have an advocate that understands just how tough the battle with this flesh is. Christ understands all to well our weaknesses, our stress, our desire for excesses etc. It cannot be said that God has no understanding of what we are going through. He knows very clearly:

Luke 23:34 - Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Jesus was tempted as man is, felt the desire and urge to do as man does, and wanted to satisfy the flesh as man does. This was never made more clear than in the garden just prior to His crucifixion. One of the things that mkes His sinnlessness so mazing is His ability to choose to go against His Father and yet not having done so. To see this any other way is to diminish His human nature. And in the end tht just is not necessary.

The whole point of this prtion of scripture is that when we come to God in prayer we have an advocate that understands just how tough the battle with this flesh is. Christ understands all to well our weaknesses, our stress, our desire for excesses etc. It cannot be said that God has no understanding of what we are going through. He knows very clearly:

Luke 23:34 - Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

I agree, excellent post.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

There was no sin in Christ Jesus at all.

The desire to sin is in man because man is born with a sin nature.

I do not believe Christ had a sin nature; therefore, He had desire to sin.

When He prayed in the Garden, "Father, if it be Thy will, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine' I do not believe His stating 'not my will, but thine' was saying that His flesh wanted to sin.

Christ knew the spiritual suffering He was facing and that is what He agonized over.

In the Defender's Study Bible, concerning Hebrews 4:15, Dr. Henry Morris states:

tempted like as we are. In His humanity, Jesus was tested in all points like as we are, except for sin. This does not mean He was tempted to commit all kinds of sins, but rather that He was tested and proved in every way. He could not actually have sinned because:

(1) He is God, and “God cannot be tempted with evil” (James 1:13);
(2) He is “the same, yesterday, and to day, and for ever” (Hebrews 13:8) so that, even in His humanity, He did not cease to be God;
(3) because of His miraculous conception, He had no innate sin, so that “in Him is no sin” (I John 3:5);
(4) He did not need, as other men, to be converted, telling Nicodemus: “ye must be born again” (John 3:7)—not “we,” or “they;”
(5) God cannot fail in His creative purpose, because He is both omniscient and omnipotent; if Jesus had sinned, salvation would have been impossible, and the Creator would have been defeated by Satan, a mere creature; this could not have been possible. Nevertheless, even though He knew (as did His Father) that He could not sin, men and angels did not know this until it had been demonstrated to them.

That is why He had to be tested as proof positive.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

double post

 

[standingfirminChrist]

triple post

 

[Marcia]

Where in scripture is the "sin nature" described or identified? I don't mean the "sinful nature" that Paul refers to.

Isn't that what people are meaning when they say "sin nature" - the sinful nature, i.e., the fallen nature?

Where does it say that it was added to Adam after the fall? Genesis talks about them knowing good and evil but nothing about a "sin nature".

For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Rom. 8:6-8

I think the above, along with other passages, give us a basis for believing that man has a fallen nature that rebels against God (called the sin nature).

Has anyone ever seen a newborn baby actually be born talking, much less telling lies? Is it possible the psalmist was using exaggerated poetic language in lhis lament and not trying to teach doctrine?

I am just a teeny-weensy bit frustrated :saint: that that one verse keeps getting misquoted. Let's get it right if we are going to quote it:

The wicked are estranged from the womb;
They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies. Ps. 58:3

 

[annsni]

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

There was no sin in Christ Jesus at all.

The desire to sin is in man because man is born with a sin nature.

I do not believe Christ had a sin nature; therefore, He had desire to sin.

When He prayed in the Garden, "Father, if it be Thy will, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine' I do not believe His stating 'not my will, but thine' was saying that His flesh wanted to sin.

Christ knew the spiritual suffering He was facing and that is what He agonized over.

In the Defender's Study Bible, concerning Hebrews 4:15, Dr. Henry Morris states:

You are correct that there was no sin in Christ and He could not have sinned because of being Divine. However, He was still tempted as a human - Scripture says so. God cannot be tempted and I know that Jesus is God but God also cannot die - yet Jesus did. God also has no beginning but the earthly body of Jesus did. Would it have been a sin if Jesus had made the rock bread? No. But that would be counting on His divinity to make this life more comfortable and if He did that, then we wouldn't be able to say that He was just like us.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Christ was not born with a nature to sin. If He had had the propensity to sin as all men are born with that propensity, then He would not be sinless.

Remember when Christ said, 'But whosoever looketh after a woman, to lust after her in his heart, hath already committed adultery"?

To say Christ had the same sinful desires, but did not give in to them would be including Him as having lusted after women in His heart, but not committing the act physically.

He would have been a sinner, unworthy to go to the cross for mankind.

Christ did not have a sin nature.

 

[Revmitchell]

Christ was not born with a nature to sin. If He had had the propensity to sin as all men are born with that propensity, then He would not be sinless.

Propensity does not equal sin.

Remember when Christ said, 'But whosoever looketh after a woman, to lust after her in his heart, hath already committed adultery"?

To say Christ had the same sinful desires, but did not give in to them would be including Him as having lusted after women in His heart, but not committing the act physically.

He would have been a sinner, unworthy to go to the cross for mankind.

Christ did not have a sin nature.

I believe it is a difficult task to weigh the dichotomy between the two natures of Christ. Scripture says Christ was tempted "as we are" tempted. It also says Christ was without sin.

To attempt to work it out beyond that by trying to understand a infinite, Holy, omniscient, and omnipitent God is folly and is better left alone. It most certainly is beyond us.

God Bless

 

[webdog]

You are correct that there was no sin in Christ and He could not have sinned because of being Divine. However, He was still tempted as a human - Scripture says so. God cannot be tempted and I know that Jesus is God but God also cannot die - yet Jesus did. God also has no beginning but the earthly body of Jesus did. Would it have been a sin if Jesus had made the rock bread? No. But that would be counting on His divinity to make this life more comfortable and if He did that, then we wouldn't be able to say that He was just like us.

I'm in the camp that believes Jesus could have sinned since He was also 100% human, and humans sin...but the above bolded statement I'm confused by. Do you mean to say that if Christ gave in to the flesh (His humanity) and obeyed satan...that is not sin?

 

[annsni]

I'm in the camp that believes Jesus could have sinned since He was also 100% human, and humans sin...but the above bolded statement I'm confused by. Do you mean to say that if Christ gave in to the flesh (His humanity) and obeyed satan...that is not sin?

Matthew 8:31-32 "And the demons begged him, saying, "If you cast us out, send us away into the herd of pigs." 32And he said to them, "Go." So they came out and went into the pigs, and behold, the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the waters. "

Did Jesus sin in obeying the demons?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Matthew 8:31-32 "And the demons begged him, saying, "If you cast us out, send us away into the herd of pigs." 32And he said to them, "Go." So they came out and went into the pigs, and behold, the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the waters. "



Did Jesus sin in obeying the demons?

Apples and oranges

There is a big difference in casting out demons and bowing to them. Had Christ obeyed them by turning stone to bread, He would have been bowing to them.

God gave allowance to satan when he allowed him to trouble Job.

In the testing in the wilderness, Jesus fought the devil with the Word of God. In the case of the demoniac, He fought the devil in an entirely different manner.

Notice what happened to the swine? They all drowned! He dealt with those devils by sending them to the abyss.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Matthew 8:31-32 "And the demons begged him, saying, "If you cast us out, send us away into the herd of pigs." 32And he said to them, "Go." So they came out and went into the pigs, and behold, the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the waters. "

Did Jesus sin in obeying the demons?

He did not "obey." They made a request and He consented. That's a very different thing.

 

[HankD]

Jesus could not/would not sin.

Jesus was tempted in every point as we are but He never yielded.

The two are not mutally exclusive.

Nowhere that I know of does the Scripture say the source of Jesus temptations were internal.

They were always from an external source.

And that IMO is why the temptations were presented to Him.
To prove to the universe of His creation that He was incapable of yielding to any temptation - internal (of which there was nothing for satan to appeal to) or external.


HankD

 

[Marcia]

Matthew 8:31-32 "And the demons begged him, saying, "If you cast us out, send us away into the herd of pigs." 32And he said to them, "Go." So they came out and went into the pigs, and behold, the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the waters. "

Did Jesus sin in obeying the demons?

He granted their wish, knowing they would go down into the water with the drowning pigs, something I'm sure they did not anticipate. The joke was on them. I see humor in this account.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

He granted their wish, knowing they would go down into the water with the drowning pigs, something I'm sure they did not anticipate. The joke was on them. I see humor in this account.

There sure is a joke in this account... first mention of 'deviled ham' in the Bible.

Seriously, since Jesus knew the nature of the pig, and the nature of the devils, He knew exactly what would happen.

 

[Rippon]

There sure is a joke in this account... first mention of 'deviled ham' in the Bible.

Seriously, since Jesus knew the nature of the pig, and the nature of the devils, He knew exactly what would happen.

Did He merely "know" or determine the whole affair? Of course the latter.