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Jesus had a human nature?

Joe

New Member
standingfirminChrist said:
The first Adam was of the earth, earthy (dusty and dirty, soil-like); the second Adam was the Lord from heaven.

From this verse, it would appear Christ's flesh was not the same as ours... even though it was flesh.
That verse taken in context wasn't talking about the flesh but was referring to our spirit


1 Corinthians 15:45-55 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.”The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear[c] the image of the heavenly Man. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[d]
 
Amy.G said:
Did Adam sin because he was a sinner?

Jesus was fully God because God was/is His Father.

He was fully human because He was born of a woman.

His body was no different than ours.

He had no human father.
He did not have the sin nature that we are born with. He proved this in His walk on the earth.
In Him was no sin because it was not His nature to sin.

He came to do the will of His Father.
 

Amy.G

New Member
Did Adam sin because he was a sinner?

I understand why this is a hard question to answer when you believe in inherited sin. If we sin because we are sinners, then Adam sinned because he was a sinner, which means that God created Adam a sinner. Of course none of us would agree that God created Adam a sinner.

Adam is proof that a human being who has no sin nature or inherited sin can commit sin.
 
The Bible declares that sin is the transgression of the law.

Was God's command to Adam 'of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it' not a law unto Adam?

If Adam transgressed that law God had given to him, what caused Adam to transgress?
 

Mexdeaf

New Member
Wow, I cannot believe that ANYONE who would call themselves Baptist would deny that Jesus was 100% God and 100% man at the same time.

What tangled webs we weave when we try to bring God down to our level of understanding. I think I will just take God's clear word on the matter and leave it at that.
 

Mexdeaf

New Member
standingfirminChrist said:
He had no human father.
He did not have the sin nature that we are born with. He proved this in His walk on the earth.
In Him was no sin because it was not His nature to sin.

He came to do the will of His Father.

Adam did not have a human father either.
 

Amy.G

New Member
standingfirminChrist said:
The Bible declares that sin is the transgression of the law.

Was God's command to Adam 'of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it' not a law unto Adam?

If Adam transgressed that law God had given to him, what caused Adam to transgress?
The same thing that causes anyone to transgress. The love of self. I want what I want. God didn't make Adam sin. Adam had a choice, his will or God's. He chose his own will over God's will. That is sin.

So, did Adam sin because he was a sinner?
 
Mexdeaf said:
Wow, I cannot believe that ANYONE who would call themselves Baptist would deny that Jesus was 100% God and 100% man at the same time.

What tangled webs we weave when we try to bring God down to our level of understanding. I think I will just take God's clear word on the matter and leave it at that.
Sure, let's take God's clear Word on the matter.

God prepared Jesus a body (Hebrews 10:5)
The second Adam was the Lord from heaven (1 Corinthians 15:47)
The second Adam was a quickening Spirit (1 Corinthians 15:45)
Christ came resembling sinful flesh (Romans 8:3)

I cannot find one verse that says Christ had a sin nature... not one single verse.

The flesh body Christ had was prepared for Him by God. It resembled sinful flesh, but was not sinful flesh.
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
standingfirminChrist said:
Sure, let's take God's clear Word on the matter.

God prepared Jesus a body (Hebrews 10:5)
The second Adam was the Lord from heaven (1 Corinthians 15:47)
The second Adam was a quickening Spirit (1 Corinthians 15:45)
Christ came resembling sinful flesh (Romans 8:3)

I cannot find one verse that says Christ had a sin nature... not one single verse.

The flesh body Christ had was prepared for Him by God. It resembled sinful flesh, but was not sinful flesh.

So let me break it down here. You don't believe Jesus was fully human? You don't believe that he was in everyway tempted like us? do you beleive he had a physical body? or just spiritual? that he just resembled humans but in no other way was like us? Is this what you are saying? As far as sin Nature he is God and he would not sin nor could he (intrinsic imposibility). But that doesn't mean he wasn't human. Please don't make me say anathema sit!
 
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Mexdeaf

New Member
Reminding you of what you said...

standingfirminChrist said:
For one to be 100% human, would not one have to have two human parents?

Christ only had one human parent. Can it truly be said He was 100% human?

You were not discussing the sin nature here- you just plain denied that Christ was 100% human. If he wasn't 100 percent human, how much human was He- 50%, 75%, what?

Plain fact is the Bible states that he was as human as you or I and yet he was God at the same time. We cannot understand it- the disciples did not.
 

Joe

New Member
Amy.G said:
Did Adam sin because he was a sinner?

I understand why this is a hard question to answer when you believe in inherited sin. If we sin because we are sinners, then Adam sinned because he was a sinner, which means that God created Adam a sinner. Of course none of us would agree that God created Adam a sinner.

Adam is proof that a human being who has no sin nature or inherited sin can commit sin.

I am not convinced Adam committed sin when he ate of the apple. When the bible uses the general term "man/men" it usually refers to both men and women.

Note the timing of the events in Genesis 3.

Adam appeared to have no choice but to eat the fruit along with her. Otherwise he would be abandoning his responsibilites as being the head of his wife, knowing the consequences. They became one, so he must remain with her to take care of her, and she do the same back to Adam acting as his helpmeet.

The Lord chastenes Eve first by asking "What have you done?"
The Lord says "“Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil" yet in this sentence, he doesn't say Man sinned so he became like one of us. He only says man became like one of us.

God says "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, etc...yet God never states that Adam sinned. Imho, it appears he experienced sin due to his wife's actions, a generational curse of some kind began

Genesis 3 NKJV

1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”
2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’”
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.
8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
9 Then the LORD God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”
10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”

11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”
12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.”

13 And the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent:
“ Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
16 To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“ Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.

18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”
20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

 
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Thinkingstuff said:
So let me break it down here. You don't believe Jesus was fully human? You don't believe that he was in everyway tempted like us? do you beleive he had a physical body? or just spiritual? that he just resembled humans but in no other way was like us? Is this what you are saying? As far as sin Nature he is God and he would not sin nor could he (intrinsic imposibility). But that doesn't mean he wasn't human. Please don't make me say anathema sit!
Look up that word tempted, it does not mean he struggled with a decision whether to do evil or not. His temptations were not to prove whether or not He could sin, but to prove He could not sin.

Christ was human in that He was born in the human race with a flesh, blood and bone body. But He was not born with that nature to choose between good and evil.
 

Amy.G

New Member
Of course Jesus didn't have a sin nature. Nobody has said such.

But SFIC, it sounds like you're saying that Jesus could not have come in human flesh as ours because it would be evil. That is what the Gnostics believed.
 
Joe said:
I am not convinced Adam committed sin when he ate of the apple. When the bible uses the general term "man/men" it usually refers to both men and women.

Note the timing of the events in Genesis 3.

Adam appeared to have no choice but to eat the fruit along with her. Otherwise he would be abandoning his responsibilites as being the head of his wife, knowing the consequences. They became one, so he must remain with her to take care of her, and she do the same back to Adam acting as his helpmeet.

The Lord chastenes Eve first by asking "What have you done?"
The Lord says "“Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil" yet in this sentence, he doesn't say Man sinned so he became like one of us. He only says man became like one of us.

God says "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, etc...yet God never states that Adam sinned. Imho, it appears he experienced sin due to his wife's actions, a generational curse of some kind began

Genesis 3 NKJV

1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”
2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’”
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.
8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
9 Then the LORD God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”
10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”

11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”
12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.”

13 And the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent:
“ Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
16 To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“ Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.

18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”
20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

Sin is the transgression of the law. Adam transgressed the law God had given him. Adam sinned.
 
Amy.G said:
Of course Jesus didn't have a sin nature. Nobody has said such.

But SFIC, it sounds like you're saying that Jesus could not have come in human flesh as ours because it would be evil. That is what the Gnostics believed.

Scripture states He came in the likeness of sinful flesh... not that it was sinful flesh.

Sure He came in a human flesh... it was the body God had prepared Him.
 

Amy.G

New Member
Joe said:
I am not convinced Adam committed sin when he ate of the apple. When the bible uses the general term "man/men" it usually refers to both men and women.
Hi Joe,
Adam sinned because he transgressed the direct command of God to "not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil". He disobeyed God with full knowledge of the command, and full knowledge the consequences of disobedience.
 

Allan

Active Member
Amy.G said:
Hi Joe,
Adam sinned because he transgressed the direct command of God to "not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil". He disobeyed God with full knowledge of the command, and full knowledge the consequences of disobedience.
Exactly :) - well put.
 

Amy.G

New Member
standingfirminChrist said:
Scripture states He came in the likeness of sinful flesh... not that it was sinful flesh.

Sure He came in a human flesh... it was the body God had prepared Him.
I agree that it was not "sinful" flesh, but it was human flesh none the less. It was the same body that we are born with. It's only sinful flesh if you believe in inherited sin guilt, which I do not. My flesh wasn't born sinful, it became sinful when I sinned. However our flesh suffers many, many consequences of Adam's sin, one being death.
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
standingfirminChrist said:
Scripture states He came in the likeness of sinful flesh... not that it was sinful flesh.

Sure He came in a human flesh... it was the body God had prepared Him.

So you believe he had a human nature (not a sinful nature but like adams before sin). So you believe that Jesus was Homoousius with the father and the spirit and also had a human nature (that was not sinful?) Or are you saying like the Copts of Old (or olde for the KJV only people) that Jesus human nature was swallowed up in the divine nature like a drop of water in the ocean? (I'm less likely to say anathema sit now.)
 
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