Jesus Repudiates the Mariolatry Volume III

[GodlyWoman]

Mary was not the Mother of God, as He existed before Mary existed. God was not given birth by a human.

If Christ is God made flesh through Mary then she is the Mother of God. This is common sense!

Yes, no Bible writer called her Mother of God, but why did anyone have to call her that? They knew that. It was a given!

To call Mary the "Mother of Jesus" and yet refuse to call her "Mother of God" is to diminish Jesus as well as Mary, for it is a denial that Jesus is truly or fully God.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Did you NOT read post #76? Are you just going to ignore that and not respond to it all together? I want to discuss that, but if you'rejust going to ignore all that without giving your view so that I can respond in an effort to debate on that then... I'm disappointed.

If you pray to Mary, the most disappointment is yet to come.

 

[GodlyWoman]

If you pray to Mary, the most disappointment is yet to come.

Well, I pray to my dead grandmother and cousin in Heaven. Does that make me a bad Christian?

And yes, I DO pray to Mary. Why shouldn't I? I pray to her just as much as I do to God and Jesus.

My praying to Mary is a way to honor her for giving birth to my Lord and my Savior. This is what I believe. Who are you or anyone else, for that matter, to tell me that I'm wrong? I'm strong in my beliefs just as you are in yours. IMHO, that's all that matters.

Praying to Mary is one of the greatest gifts the Church has to offer us.

I have a very deep love and a very high regard for this blessed woman [Mary]. I had no idea that loving and respecting the person who gave birth to my Lord and my Savior was a crime in your eyes and in other people's eyes. Maybe I should be stoned to death for it?

I have a feeling I'll be "jumped on" for this without respect for my belief and that's okay... I'm used to it now.

 

[GodlyWoman]

Is there any Biblical support for the belief of Catholics [and others] to call upon Mary to intercede to God on their behalf?

First of all, because Mary was the birth mother of the humanity of Jesus in who "the fullness of the deity (God) was pleased to dwell bodily," [Col. 1:19, 2:9] Catholics [and others] nize the Virgin Mary as the Mother of God.

Secondly, because Mary was "favoured by God" [Lk. 1:30] when she was personally chosen by the Lord to become the mother of Jesus, God incarnated, Catholics [and others] believe that they have a greater chance of obtaining God's grace for their daily physical and spiritual needs by asking Mary to intercede on their behalf.

Thirdly, the above mentioned belief is partially based on the fact that Jesus is the King of kings and Mary, as the mother of the King, is the "queen mother." Then, when studying Jewish history, it is discovered that the institution of the "queen mother" was established during the reign of King Solomon.

In the Old Testament, we learn of the favoured position of the queen mother through the following words, "... then the king sat on his throne, and had a throne brought for the king's mother, and she sat on his right. Then she said, 'I have one small request to make of you, do not refuse me.' And the king said to her, 'Make your request, my mother, for I will not refuse you.'" [1 Kgs. 2:19-20]

Following the reign of King Solomon, many of the kings kept this practice. The mother of the king, through who the king received his throne, was trusted as a confident and advisor. So important was the function of the queen mothers in the days of the Old Testament that their names were listed in the succession records of the kings of Judah. [See 1 Kgs 14:21, 15:13; 2 Kgs. 12:1, 14:2, 15:2, etc...]

Similar to the intercession of the Queen Mother, when a child desires a favour and cannot obtain it from his/her parents, frequently the child will make the request to the grandparent to intercede on his/her behalf, therefore obtaining the favour that was being sought. This does not mean that the child is seeking the parental favour from the grandparent. Rather, the child is seeking the intercession of the grandparents before the parents.

Furthermore, Catholics [and others] don't differentiate between the living (in this world) and the dead (those who departed) members of the Body of Christ (the fullness of the Church.) The fullness of the mystical Body of Christ is found in the union of all the saints, past and present, here below and those above in Heaven.

In view of the aforementioned, it cannot be denied that those who were called to Heaven, including Mary, are still alive in spirit in the Kingdom of God that coexists with our world. As some non-Catholics and other non-liturgically based regious people pray through their deceased parents, grandparents or other biological relatives, asking these beloved departed persons to intercede before God on their behalf, Catholics [and others] pray through Mary to Jesus, taking advantage of her blessed position as the Mother of God.

This action affirms the prophetic and Divinely inspired passage that is found in the Holy Bible where it states, "Surely, from now on all generations will call me blessed." [Lk. 1:47] All generations couldn't call Mary blessed if she was not actively involved in the progressive Divine Plan that continues to develop before our eyes.

Indeed, all generations have called the Blessed Virgin Mary blessed, including this one, because she has never stopped interceding on behalf of the world, her intercession obtaining endless miraculous cures and other favors. The role of Mary in the area of obtaining physical miraculous cures is well known and documented in Lourdes, France, this being only one of the many holy places where the grace of God has been manifested through the Virgin Mary at apparition sites.

 

[GodlyWoman]

Many non-Catholics and other non-liturgicall based religious people have been trained from childhood to believe that one of the clear proofs of the falsity of Catholicism and other liturgically based religions is to be found in the honor that is paid to the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Church, and in the innumerable trusting prayers that are offered to her by Catholics [and others]. For the truth is very simple and clear, and is all contained in the following two truths.

1. Mary is the Mother of God. Catholics [and others] don't believe that God was bound by any compulsion to have a Mother; they believe that He chose to have a Mother and all that this implies. He chose to permit His human body to be formed in her womb.

He chose to permit her to bring Him forth as a tiny baby into the world. He chose to let her feed Him at her breast, carry Him in her arms, guard Him from danger, and teach Him as any child would be taught, to walk and speak and pray. He thereby chose to grant Mary a power over Him that only love can bestow. Catholics [and others] believe that in choosing a mother, the Son of God chose to grant her the power over His will that the love of a good mother always wields over a good son.

2. Mary is a mother to all men. Catholics [and others] believe that the Son of God chose to come into the world through a mother in order that that mother might accept as His brothers all the children of the sinful race of man. He set an example as to how she should be honored and loved. He prepared her for this motherhood of all by asking her to suffer every conceivable form of pain, thus teaching her sympathy for the sorrows of her children. Had she been His Mother alone, He would have spared her from pain, because He had the power to do so and because He loved her with an infinite love. He wrought His first public miracle at her request, and when He was dying He reminded her that she had been destined from the beginning to be a Mother to all. Catholics [and others] therefore believe that Mary will be as eager to help them, in troubles of soul and body, as every natural mother is eager to promote the welfare of her child.

The Marian prayers that Catholics [and others] recite are but the expression of their belief in these two truths. They know that if Mary speaks to her Divine Son in their behalf, there can be no doubt about their receiving an answer to their prayers.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Mary is never called the `mother of God' in Scripture... never!. She was the mother of the man; Jesus but the Son of God had no beginning

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

For this reason, Bible writers never called Mary the mother of God... and rightly so

Mary gave birth to other children after Jesus was born which proves she is not a perpetual virgin

Matthew 13:55-56 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

Mary was in need of a Savior and was not sinless
Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

The Apostles never exalted Mary. From the book of Romans and on to the end of the Bible, Mary is not mentioned one single time.

True, Mary was said to be blessed above other women. What an honor that had to have been to have brought the Savior into the world. And yet, Mary did not exalt herself.

Mary is not the mother of God, nor is she the Queen of Heaven as the Catholic prayers so entitle her. The Queen of heaven was pagan.

Jeremiah 44:18-19 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine. And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?

Just as our prayers are a sweet smelling incense to the Lord God, prayers to Mary are an incense. But the prayers to Mary are a stench in the nostrils of God and not sweet at all.

As I said, if one prays to Mary, or lifts her up as the Mother of God, the Queen of Heaven, Mediatrix, or any other exalted name, the greatest disappointment for them is yet to come.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Well, I pray to my dead grandmother and cousin in Heaven. Does that make me a bad Christian?

No, that means you are deceived into believing a lie.

Prayers that are not to God are a stench in His nostrils.

Who am I to declare you to be wrong?? God's humble servant.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

YOur copying and posting all that heresy from catholicdoors.com and rosaryarmy.com without giving credit to them is against BB rules. It is also plagiarism.

Mary is not the mother of the King. Nor was she ever the mother of the King. She was not the Mother of God.

The Catholic Church is teaching doctrine contrary to the Word of God.

 

[D28guy]

Godly Woman,

"To call Mary the "Mother of Jesus" and yet refuse to call her "Mother of God" is to diminish Jesus as well as Mary,..."

That is nonsense, GW. Thats a ridiculous claim that Catholic apologists and others try to dupe people with, in order to continue to justify the Goddess worship directed towards Mary in these groups.

It does not diminish Jesus Christ in any conceivable way. Not in the tiniest bit. Jesus is God, always has been God, and always will be God. NOTHING that anyone believes or doesnt believe about Mary has even an "iota" to do with Christs divinity.

Christs Divinity is proclaimed from the scriptures and is completly independant of anything people believe or dont believe about Mary or Mary's title. We do not in any way *need* Mary to proclaim that Jesus is God.

THE SCRIPTURES PROCLAIM HIM TO BE GOD

"for it is a denial that Jesus is truly or fully God."

Nonsense. It has nothing to do with Christ being fully God. Christs Godhood has absolutly NOTHING to do with Mary, since He was God from eternity past.

Mike

 

[Linda64]

Mary is not the mother of God. It is true that Jesus Christ is God the Son, and Mary was the mother of Jesus, but the New Testament does not even hint that Mary should be thought of as the mother of God. Jesus Christ, as God the Son, had no beginning. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1). Christ as God had no mother, or beginning. It was only His human, earthly existence which began in the womb of Mary. She is the mother of His humanity, not His divinity. The Godhead has no motherhood!

The wording of Isaiah 9:6, speaking of the birth of Christ, is very precise. First we read, "A child is born." This refers to Jesus' humanity. Then we read, "A son is given." This refers to Jesus' eternal deity. As a child he was indeed born, but as a Son he has existed forever. Micah 5:2 also makes it clear that Christ as the Son of God had no beginning, no mother. Here we read that the Holy One born in Bethlehem's stable was One "whose goings forth have been from old, from everlasting"! Mary, then, had no part whatsoever in mothering the Godhead.

Way of Life Encyclopedia

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Mary is NOT the mother of God!

 

[GodlyWoman]

Staying with this is useless. We just keep going round and round in circles.

The Scripture I give is just refuted with other Scripture that is automatically deemed more correct than my Scripture. In some cases, I apparently didn't translate Scripture correctly or to your liking and in other cases my Scripture is ignored if it doesn't jive with your beliefs.

I dislike close-minded people.

Ultimately, I am wrong and the rest of you are right.

I certainly hope you'll all see the truth someday to Mary. I'll be praying for you folks.

Until then, I hope you enjoy wearing your self-centered, "I'm ALWAYS right!" hat.

 

[Linda64]

Mary is a mother to all men.

Really? Well, guess what? Mary isn't my mother, and she's not my husband's mother either. Mary is a dead saint who is awaiting the resurrection as all the "dead in Christ" are also awaiting the resurrection. Praying to Mary is praying to the dead and praying to the dead, which is called necromancy, is an abomination to God:

Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deuteronomy 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deuteronomy 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Cross posting is also against the BB rules. Did you not read them when you agreed to them?

 

[D28guy]

Godly Woman,

DHK said...

"The Bible is our source for doctrine and authority. We have no other book to base our doctrine on.

And you said...

"Why? Because you say it is?

Again, NO WHERE in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the sole source for docrine and authority. Please give me a Bible verse that reads as follows:

The Bible is the sole source for doctrine and authority"

There are actually multitudes upon multitudes of them, but 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is one of the clearest...

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, for instruction in rightiousness, that the man of God might be complete, and thoroughly equipped for every good work"

It is the scriptures that we are to turn to for doctrine, not tradition. Jesus Christ condemned the idea of tradition being heeded over scripture...

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?”

6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘ This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.


7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”

9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.

10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’

11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God),

12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother,

13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Mike

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Well, I pray to my dead grandmother and cousin in Heaven.

Oh really? Do they answer you? What do they say?

 

[Joe]

Hi Godlywoman

John 14:6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.

Since no one can come to the Father except thru his son Jesus Christ, this should clear up any confusion you have regarding Mary interceeding on your behalf. Whether you wish to believe the truth or fables, that is up to you. I'll pray for you.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

thoroughly furnished in 2 Timothy 3 clearly shows we need nothing else than the Word of God. If it is thorough, then we cannot add to it to make it complete.

WTG, Mike

 

[Joe]

Staying with this is useless. We just keep going round and round in circles.

The Scripture I give is just refuted with other Scripture that is automatically deemed more correct than my Scripture. In some cases, I apparently didn't translate Scripture correctly or to your liking and in other cases my Scripture is ignored if it doesn't jive with your beliefs.

I dislike close-minded people.

Ultimately, I am wrong and the rest of you are right.

I certainly hope you'll all see the truth someday to Mary. I'll be praying for you folks.

Until then, I hope you enjoy wearing your self-centered, "I'm ALWAYS right!" hat.

It takes time to get to know people. Stick around ok :1_grouphug:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

BTW, I don't have an "I'm always right hat"... where can I find one?

 

[D28guy]

Godly Woman,

Would you be kind enough to post your salvation testimony for me?

I am not tying to trick you. I appreciate your zeal and desire to dialogue regarding these things, and I believe you hold Mary and Jesus in high regard from a sincere heart.

Could you post your testimony please regarding how you came to know Christ personally and were born again of the Spirit?

Peace,

Mike