My mother did not believe in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit was for today! But we are getting off the OP!
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Job an example of great suffering:
- Thread starter Matt22:37-39
- Start date
My mother did not believe in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit was for today! But we are getting off the OP!
And there it is! The gospel that says if you don't have enough faith, you won't be healed.
Tell that to the lame man.
Acts 3
3 Now Peter and John were going up to the temple at the ninth hour, the hour of prayer. 2 And a man who had been lame from his mother’s womb was being carried along, whom they used to set down every day at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, in order to beg alms of those who were entering the temple. 3 When he saw Peter and John about to go into the temple, he began asking to receive alms. 4 But Peter, along with John, fixed his gaze on him and said, “Look at us!” 5 And he began to give them his attention, expecting to receive something from them. 6 But Peter said, “I do not possess silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene—walk!” 7 And seizing him by the right hand, he raised him up; and immediately his feet and his ankles were strengthened. 8 With a leap he stood upright and began to walk; and he entered the temple with them, walking and leaping and praising God.
Where was his faith to be healed? Peter saw his need and met it. If faith healers of today were real, that is exactly what they would do.
Matt22:37-39
New Member
Again, I have never said anything about not suffering! I just pointed out that Job was healed and given back double what he lost, correct?
What other examples are there of those who were given more than they lost in the bible?...not many. look at Paul, John The Baptist, John beloved disciple of Jesus and others....suffered the whole time while in ministry
Matt22:37-39
New Member
And there it is! The gospel that says if you don't have enough faith, you won't be healed.
Tell that to the lame man.
Acts 3
3 Now Peter and John were going up to the temple at the ninth hour, the hour of prayer. 2 And a man who had been lame from his mother’s womb was being carried along, whom they used to set down every day at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, in order to beg alms of those who were entering the temple. 3 When he saw Peter and John about to go into the temple, he began asking to receive alms. 4 But Peter, along with John, fixed his gaze on him and said, “Look at us!” 5 And he began to give them his attention, expecting to receive something from them. 6 But Peter said, “I do not possess silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene—walk!” 7 And seizing him by the right hand, he raised him up; and immediately his feet and his ankles were strengthened. 8 With a leap he stood upright and began to walk; and he entered the temple with them, walking and leaping and praising God.
Where was his faith to be healed? Peter saw his need and met it. If faith healers of today were real, that is exactly what they would do.
:thumbsup:
Matt22:37-39
New Member
I'LL TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER....It was the lame man's FRIENDS FAITH that healed the lame man...so why didn't AWAKEN'S and his friends faith heal his mother?
Mark 2
2 And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house.
2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.
3 And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.
4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.
5 When Jesus saw THEIR FAITH, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.
12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
Mark 2
2 And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house.
2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.
3 And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.
4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.
5 When Jesus saw THEIR FAITH, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.
12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
He had faith or he would have never stood up!And there it is! The gospel that says if you don't have enough faith, you won't be healed.
Tell that to the lame man.
Acts 3
3 Now Peter and John were going up to the temple at the ninth hour, the hour of prayer. 2 And a man who had been lame from his mother’s womb was being carried along, whom they used to set down every day at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, in order to beg alms of those who were entering the temple. 3 When he saw Peter and John about to go into the temple, he began asking to receive alms. 4 But Peter, along with John, fixed his gaze on him and said, “Look at us!” 5 And he began to give them his attention, expecting to receive something from them. 6 But Peter said, “I do not possess silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene—walk!” 7 And seizing him by the right hand, he raised him up; and immediately his feet and his ankles were strengthened. 8 With a leap he stood upright and began to walk; and he entered the temple with them, walking and leaping and praising God.
Where was his faith to be healed? Peter saw his need and met it. If faith healers of today were real, that is exactly what they would do.
THe man stood up! IF he did not have faith...he would not have stood up!I'LL TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER....It was the lame man's FRIENDS FAITH that healed the lame man...so why didn't AWAKEN'S and his friends faith heal his mother?
Mark 2
2 And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house.
2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.
3 And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.
4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.
5 When Jesus saw THEIR FAITH, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.
12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
Again! I have never said we will not suffer persecution!What other examples are there of those who were given more than they lost in the bible?...not many. look at Paul, John The Baptist, John beloved disciple of Jesus and others....suffered the whole time while in ministry
Again! I have never said we will not suffer persecution!
The point is that a real gift to heal always would heal....
And the man heale din Acts stood up, that was the result of his healing, and his faith had no part in the healing, as he was expected money!
Really? Peter said "Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none" The man knew he had NO MONEY!The point is that a real gift to heal always would heal....
And the man heale din Acts stood up, that was the result of his healing, and his faith had no part in the healing, as he was expected money!
He had faith or he would have never stood up!
Do you read the Bible?????
Acts 3:7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ancle bones received strength.
Peter LIFTED HIM UP!!!!
The man wanted money. He did NOT expect to be healed!
Peter told him that he had no money before he was lifted up! He allowed Peter to lift him!Do you read the Bible?????
Acts 3:7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ancle bones received strength.
Peter LIFTED HIM UP!!!!
The man wanted money. He did NOT expect to be healed!
Do you?Do you read the Bible?????
Acts 3:16: "By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see."
Peter told him that he had no money before he was lifted up! He allowed Peter to lift him!
the man had NO faith in jesus, so that was the power of jesus physically healing Him!
the man had NO faith in jesus, so that was the power of jesus physically healing Him!
Acts 3:16: "By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see."
So are you saying Jesus had faith in himself? Or did the man that was healed have faith to be made strong!
Matt22:37-39
New Member
THe man stood up! IF he did not have faith...he would not have stood up!
Two different lame men...this one says he was HEALED due his FRIENDS faith...just like Jesus healed the little girl who was dying due to her DADS faith
Matt22:37-39
New Member
Luke 8: 40-42, 49-56
[40] Now when Jesus returned, a crowd welcomed him, for they were all expecting him. [41] Then a man named Jairus, a ruler of the synagogue, came and fell at Jesus' feet, pleading with him to come to his house [42] because his only daughter, a girl of about twelve, was dying. As Jesus was on his way, the crowds almost crushed him....
[49] While Jesus was still speaking, someone came from the house of Jairus, the synagogue ruler. "Your daughter is dead," he said. "Don't bother the teacher any more."
[50] Hearing this, Jesus said to Jairus, "Don't be afraid; just believe, and she will be healed."
[51] When he arrived at the house of Jairus, he did not let anyone go in with him except Peter, John and James, and the child's father and mother. [52] Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. "Stop wailing," Jesus said. "She is not dead but asleep."
[53] They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. [54] But he took her by the hand and said, "My child, get up!" [55] Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat. [56] Her parents were astonished, but he ordered them not to tell anyone what had happened.
so why didn't YOUR faith AWAKEN heal your mother?
FOLKS -- in the name of decency, let's leave relatives out of this, what do you say?
Yes, our God is a covenant God; but this thought that Job was "outside of the covenant" doesn't make any sense. For example, the covenant was always through blood; and Abel's sacrifice, well before Job, was perfectly acceptable in God's eyes.
If we think Job pre-dates Noah, then Job falls under the same conditions that Abel and the other descendents of Adam fell under -- which included blood sacrifices. If we think that Job came after Noah, then we have to consider that Noah continued the blood sacrifices, and therefore Job was simply following what had been proscribed since well before his birth--falling under the same conditions that Abel and the other descendents of Adam fell under.
Look, I'll readily admit I'm no theologian; and I'll happily allow someone with more schooling educate me. But I don't understand how you're saying Job was outside of the covenant that had existed since Adam.
Further, you didn't answer my question about a "warped conception of who God is". Would you please provide further clarification of what you're saying there?
Do you believe our God is a covenant God?
2 Chronicles 6:14;Nehemiah 9:32; Is. 55:1-3; Ez. 34:25-26; Jeremiah 31:31-33; Heb. 8:6-7; 10:26-29; 13:20-21; Luke 22:20 are just a few scriptures that describe the covenant relationship we have with God!
Yes, our God is a covenant God; but this thought that Job was "outside of the covenant" doesn't make any sense. For example, the covenant was always through blood; and Abel's sacrifice, well before Job, was perfectly acceptable in God's eyes.
If we think Job pre-dates Noah, then Job falls under the same conditions that Abel and the other descendents of Adam fell under -- which included blood sacrifices. If we think that Job came after Noah, then we have to consider that Noah continued the blood sacrifices, and therefore Job was simply following what had been proscribed since well before his birth--falling under the same conditions that Abel and the other descendents of Adam fell under.
Look, I'll readily admit I'm no theologian; and I'll happily allow someone with more schooling educate me. But I don't understand how you're saying Job was outside of the covenant that had existed since Adam.
Further, you didn't answer my question about a "warped conception of who God is". Would you please provide further clarification of what you're saying there?
THe man himself had faith too! He stood up!Two different lame men...this one says he was HEALED due his FRIENDS faith...just like Jesus healed the little girl who was dying due to her DADS faith
So you are saying that Jesus only heals when SOMEONE has faith?
Matt22:37-39
New Member
I think using an example of a relative is just fine... AWAKEN open the door for the discussion and this is MY THREAD then all is fair....I mean if one is going to preach that the "gift" of healing is for today, yet within that own persons circle God does not heal....then isn't that what God will use to reveal His truth to someone?...you can't have it both ways.
Not saying God doesn't heal today, just not in the way He did in before the bible was completed and the Apostles died out.
Just saying!
Not saying God doesn't heal today, just not in the way He did in before the bible was completed and the Apostles died out.
Just saying!