Joel Osteen Denies Christ on National TV

[Marcia]

Originally posted by atestring:
Marcia,
If Joel Osteen really denied Jesus I would not watch him
The problem is that I watched Joel Osteen and have read the transcript from the larry King show.
He proclaims Jesus. So what if he smiles? I think Jesus smiled and is probably still smiling.
MArcia you could learn from Joel Osteen .
He preaches Jesus and He is happy about Jesus.
Are you happy about Jesus?
Do you make people want to look to Jesus for the answers to lifes problems?
don't answer me answer these questions to yourself just as I ask myself these questions?

Yes, I am happy about Jesus.

I have nothing to learn from Osteen. He teaches that Jesus had to go to hell to fight Satan in order to pay for sins.

He teaches that we have to say God's blessings out loud in order to get them.

He teaches that our thoughts can kill people.

He teaches God as a tool to get happy and get what we want.

Sorry, that is not my God nor my Jesus.

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by atestring:
Marcia,
If Joel Osteen really denied Jesus I would not watch him
The problem is that I watched Joel Osteen and have read the transcript from the larry King show.
He proclaims Jesus. So what if he smiles? I think Jesus smiled and is probably still smiling.
MArcia you could learn from Joel Osteen .
He preaches Jesus and He is happy about Jesus.
Are you happy about Jesus?
Do you make people want to look to Jesus for the answers to lifes problems?
don't answer me answer these questions to yourself just as I ask myself these questions?

Yes, I am happy about Jesus.

I have nothing to learn from Osteen. He teaches that Jesus had to go to hell to fight Satan in order to pay for sins.

He teaches that we have to say God's blessings out loud in order to get them.

He teaches that our thoughts can kill people.

He teaches God as a tool to get happy and get what we want.

Sorry, that is not my God nor my Jesus. </font>[/QUOTE]Marcia
You spend to much time reading ridiculous internet articles.

 

[Marcia]

Posted by atestring
Marcia
You spend to much time reading ridiculous internet articles.

You are making an untrue accusation.

In fact, atestring, I've heard Osteen many times on TV and I have been reading his book. My statements above come from what I've heard him say or read in his book.

As usual, you don't address the issues but instead make personal comments. It does nothing for your credibility. You never do acknowledge the heresies of the Word Faith teachings, for example.

 

[Humblesmith]

Joel Osteen inherited a large church from his father, who was the pastor and died rather suddenly. Apparently he has also inherited his father's word-faith teachings. He comes accross as a person with good intentions, but he would have benefitted from some good seminary training before taking a pulpit. Larry King is a very, very experienced interviewer, and if someone is not prepared, they can be caught off gaurd.

The nicest thing I can say about Osteen is the same thing that Walter Martin said about Jimmy Swaggart: "He's a better evangelist than theologian."

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Posted by atestring
Marcia
You spend to much time reading ridiculous internet articles.

You are making an untrue accusation.

In fact, atestring, I've heard Osteen many times on TV and I have been reading his book. My statements above come from what I've heard him say or read in his book.

As usual, you don't address the issues but instead make personal comments. It does nothing for your credibility. You never do acknowledge the heresies of the Word Faith teachings, for example. </font>[/QUOTE]I forgot,
(edited for personal attack)

[ July 20, 2005, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by atestring:
Marcia,
If Joel Osteen really denied Jesus I would not watch him
The problem is that I watched Joel Osteen and have read the transcript from the larry King show.
He proclaims Jesus. So what if he smiles? I think Jesus smiled and is probably still smiling.
MArcia you could learn from Joel Osteen .
He preaches Jesus and He is happy about Jesus.
Are you happy about Jesus?
Do you make people want to look to Jesus for the answers to lifes problems?
don't answer me answer these questions to yourself just as I ask myself these questions?

Yes, I am happy about Jesus.

I have nothing to learn from Osteen. He teaches that Jesus had to go to hell to fight Satan in order to pay for sins.

He teaches that we have to say God's blessings out loud in order to get them.

He teaches that our thoughts can kill people.

He teaches God as a tool to get happy and get what we want.

Sorry, that is not my God nor my Jesus. </font>[/QUOTE]Our thoughts can kill us.
I got born again by believing my heart and Speaking with my mouth.
Jesus is the source of my happiness and the source of my supply.
Jesus triumphed over death hell and the grave.
So what is your problem?

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Posted by atestring
Marcia
You spend to much time reading ridiculous internet articles.

You are making an untrue accusation.

In fact, atestring, I've heard Osteen many times on TV and I have been reading his book. My statements above come from what I've heard him say or read in his book.

As usual, you don't address the issues but instead make personal comments. It does nothing for your credibility. You never do acknowledge the heresies of the Word Faith teachings, for example. </font>[/QUOTE]Do you expect me to believe that Word of Faith teaching is heresy because you say so?
Tell me what qualifies you to accuse anyone of heresy.

 

[Orvie]

Originally posted by atestring:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Posted by atestring
Marcia
You spend to much time reading ridiculous internet articles.

You are making an untrue accusation.

In fact, atestring, I've heard Osteen many times on TV and I have been reading his book. My statements above come from what I've heard him say or read in his book.

As usual, you don't address the issues but instead make personal comments. It does nothing for your credibility. You never do acknowledge the heresies of the Word Faith teachings, for example. </font>[/QUOTE]Do you expect me to believe that Word of Faith teaching is heresy because you say so?
Tell me what qualifies you to accuse anyone of heresy. </font>[/QUOTE]The "W/F" IS heresy b/c it deifies man and reduces God to your personal genie in a bottle...just rub that "genie" w/ your words and have faith in those words. Sad indeed.
As far as Joel is concerned, he is a "W/F" preacher, although he seems milder than the likes of Dollar and Price (note the surnames )I think too, he's sincere, but wrong.

 

[Nevertheless]

Originally posted by mcdirector:
He also felt that Osteen had been waylaid (sp?) by King.

Perhaps, but that's what King does. If Osteen went into the interview expecting a nice pleasant chat, he's quite foolish.

I read Osteen's apology. It appeared sincere and he made it clear what (and in whom) he believes.

Maybe. But the apology didn't have the coverage of the original statement. A huge opportunity lost, even giving Osteen a gigantic benefit of the doubt.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by steaver:
Many times that which a person or a church "officially" states in writing as positional doctrine does not coinside with what they actually promote and teach. And many times there doctrinal statements are sound, but once they have you in, they begin to push false prophets or erronious traditions which destroy the seekers quest for truth.

Valid point. But, in the case of Osteen (admittedly, I''m not well-versed in him), I've never heard him say anything that is contrary to scripture, not have I ever seen anything on his church's website that is contrary to scripture. I say only parts of the Larry King interview, and didn't find anything contrary to scripture there either. I think he's definitely a "feel good" preacher, which many hardcore fundies won't like. However, I can discern fully between not liking something, and saying it's not scriptural.

I'm not an Osteen fan, but I don't think he's unscriptural.

 

[Marcia]

Do you expect me to believe that Word of Faith teaching is heresy because you say so?
Tell me what qualifies you to accuse anyone of heresy.

2nd question first: The Bible.

1st question: No.

You should be able to evaluate teachings yourself with God's word. You list yourself as Baptist, so I'm surprised you have no trouble with Word of Faith teachings.

WF teaches that Jesus literally became sin himself (not that he just took it on), but that he had a sin nature, had to go to hell to fight Satan in order to atone for sin (instead of atoning on the cross), and that men when saved are little gods and can create with their mouths the way God does.

Copeland teaches that God the Father has a physical body. All of these teachings are heretical and go against the Bible.

 

[Marcia]

Posted by JohnV
But, in the case of Osteen (admittedly, I''m not well-versed in him), I've never heard him say anything that is contrary to scripture, not have I ever seen anything on his church's website that is contrary to scripture. I say only parts of the Larry King interview, and didn't find anything contrary to scripture there either. I think he's definitely a "feel good" preacher, which many hardcore fundies won't like. However, I can discern fully between not liking something, and saying it's not scriptural.

I'm not an Osteen fan, but I don't think he's unscriptural.

JohnV, you have to look beyond his website. Read his book and listen to his sermons, but you may have to do that for awhile. I had listened to him for awhile before I heard the "thought kills" sermon. For example, you could kill your wife if you kept being afraid you were going to lose her -- without saying a word or doing anything. Just think that and the power of your thoughts will kill her. This is from New Thought, one of the origins of Word Faith (and New Age).

In his book, he says that we have to say God's blessings out loud in order to have them. Not believe them or not trust God, but say them aloud. This is really magical thinking. This is not heresy but it is certainly unbiblical.

Osteen is more New Thought than anything, mixed in with the feel-goodism. He believes it is a sin to say anything negative. This is also classic WF teaching. They divide everything up between positive and negative, not good and evil.

Also, Osteen has said the classic WF stuff like Jesus having to go to hell to fight Satan (I heard this in his Easter sermon).

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Marcia:
I had listened to him for awhile before I heard the "thought kills" sermon. For example, you could kill your wife if you kept being afraid you were going to lose her -- without saying a word or doing anything. Just think that and the power of your thoughts will kill her. This is from New Thought, one of the origins of Word Faith (and New Age).

I may be wrong, but I suspect you might have taken a message out of context, or perhaps taking an analogy as literal. I've heard things similar to that example. For example, the self-fulfilling prophecy. A man marries a woman, and is so insecure in his thoughts that he's consistently fearful that she's going to cheat on him with someone else. Eventually, because of her husband's attitude, she does just that. Anyway, that's a very short analogy. Actually, scripture tells us not to be worried about such things.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just surmising here, because fro what you've told me, it doesn't sound unscriptural.

I will take your advice and do a little more research. However, I remain objective as I do so, so as not to cloud my own judgement.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Marcia:
I had listened to him for awhile before I heard the "thought kills" sermon. For example, you could kill your wife if you kept being afraid you were going to lose her -- without saying a word or doing anything. Just think that and the power of your thoughts will kill her. This is from New Thought, one of the origins of Word Faith (and New Age).

I may be wrong, but I suspect you might have taken a message out of context, or perhaps taking an analogy as literal. I've heard things similar to that example. For example, the self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just surmising here, because fro what you've told me, it doesn't sound unscriptural.

I will take your advice and do a little more research. However, I remain objective as I do so, so as not to cloud my own judgement. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not wrong. It was not about self-fulflling prophecy. I speak publicly and believe me, I have to be sure I'm right before I say something about someone. Although Osteen is not an issue in my ministry directly, I have been asked about him quite a bit.

Also, the New Thought movement is part of my area because of its influence on the New Age, and so that makes Osteen and WF teachings peripheral to what I talk and write on.

Osteen is more subtle than other WF teachers like Copeland. He also puts more feel-good stuff in his messages than a lot of WF teachers. So I see him more as a blend of motivational, New Thought, feel good, and WF.

 

[Nevertheless]

For example, you could kill your wife if you kept being afraid you were going to lose her -- without saying a word or doing anything. Just think that and the power of your thoughts will kill her.
(...)
In his book, he says that we have to say God's blessings out loud in order to have them.

Our thoughts have power of their own, but God's promises must be spoken (by us) to have power?!?
That stance alone should make any Christian scrutinize this man's teachings carefully before believing a word he says.

 

[Marcia]

Posted by Nevertheless
Our thoughts have power of their own, but God's promises must be spoken (by us) to have power?!?
That stance alone should make any Christian scrutinize this man's teachings carefully before believing a word he says.

Interesting point, Never. Hadn't thought of it that way.

One of the marks of aberrant and heretical teachings is that God or Jesus are always lowered and/or man is raised. Of course, when you raise man's status up, you lower God. This might just be a slight shift, but it's enough to set things askew. That's what this does.

 

[shannonL]

One reason Joel is so appealing is you look at him and say : "Well he is such a nice boy" tee hee.

I like what one poster noticed. On Joel's show they make a big deal about raising their Bibles and make this big quote then after that you never have to open it. He might quote one verse then tell you this nice story. I Joel was a swimming pool he would definitly be one of those kittie pools when it comes to his message. He preaches a shallow message. He is also a Word of Faith teacher I've heard him preach on that stuff more than once.

 

[shannonL]

BTW, has anyone noticed how alot of guys are writing their version of the PDL? You got to laugh. I mean basically that is all Joel's book is. His own spin on a PDL kind of life. All the TV preachers have one the good preachers and the nuts.

 

[D28guy]

What the heck is "the PDL"?

Mike

 

[here now]

Hi D28guy,
Purpose Driven Life (PDL)