Joel Osteen: Why?

[TCGreek]

Martin, I share your frustration.

Ahab had 400 prophets on his payroll who's job was to tell him what he wanted to hear. He hated the prophet of God, Micaiah. Check it out in 1 Kings 22. People want to hear smooth prophecies to satisfy their tickling ears. That's just the way it is. Always has been and always will be till the Lord comes back.

But Osteen's popularity has to be unprecedented in history. In our visitation program, I can't tell you how many times people have said to us "we don't go to church - we like that guy Osteen on TV, so we just watch him".

Remember though, how that Elijah felt alone, but God said "I have reserved to myself 7000 men that have not bowed the knee to Baal".

J.D., the likes of Osteen should not surprise us, for they are in prophecy.

 

[J.D.]

Maybe some people need to hear a message of "hope." Some people have had more than their fair share of heartaches, sorrow, and loss in their lives, even though they are born-again Christians. Joel Osteen is the very first to say that his primary ministry isn't evangelism, it is ministering to the Body of Christ, yet, he always gives an invitation at the end of each service.

As far as his theology goes, the Bible Study material offered by Lifeway which is probably taught in most SBC churches on Sunday mornings is what some people (like me) would consider pablum, not meat. I have run into quite a few Southern Baptists who don't know much of what the Bible says about anything, just for the record (being from IFB background myself), but now a member of a SBC.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but to point out that different people have different needs at different points in their lives. Sometimes people have had so much heartache and loss, they need to have hope that Romans 8:28 is still true, that God does have a plan for our lives, that we can't give up when we feel like all is futile.

I have never heard Joel Osteen preach anything that is out of align with the Word of God, and I believe I'm pretty well grounded in God's Word. And he never asks for money like a lot of televangelits do.

Most of us already know what sins we are guilty of and our failures, so hope is nice to hear once in awhile. It's not itching ears. Joel Osteen is just reminding people of the "goodness of God" like it says in Romans 2:4 - the "goodness of God leads to repentence."

Edited to direct you to this thread - 60 minutes Interview with Joel Osteen (in the News Forum):

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=50620

Ladyeagle, is Jesus Christ the only hope of man, or is their hope to be found in any other gods? Apparently, Osteen can't seem to muster an answer to that question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPeYUXuuRUM

 

[J.D.]

Compare this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfwYU2pmWYQ

With this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BZ-N4pruFo

Who is the prophet of God - Joel Osteen, or John MacArthur?

 

[Martin]

Maybe some people need to hear a message of "hope." Some people have had more than their fair share of heartaches, sorrow, and loss in their lives, even though they are born-again Christians. Joel Osteen is the very first to say that his primary ministry isn't evangelism, it is ministering to the Body of Christ, yet, he always gives an invitation at the end of each service.

==I have no problem with Osteen, or anyone else, preaching a message of hope. However I have heard Osteen preach and he goes far beyond just hope. He is very much part of the health and prosperity movement. I have also seen him duck and cover when asked very direct questions about homosexuality and the exclusive nature of the Gospel. He ducks because he does not wish to offend. Why does he want to avoid offended? Because he does not preach the Gospel of Christ which is an offense to a lost and sinful world. Giving people an invitation at the end of a church service is fine as long as it is Biblical. Since Osteen's messages lack any Biblical substance I can't see how his invitations are anything more than more of his feel good fluff. A person cannot be saved unless they first understand why they need to be saved.

As far as his theology goes, the Bible Study material offered by Lifeway which is probably taught in most SBC churches on Sunday mornings is what some people (like me) would consider pablum, not meat. I have run into quite a few Southern Baptists who don't know much of what the Bible says about anything, just for the record (being from IFB background myself), but now a member of a SBC.

==The Sunday School material put out by Lifeway is generally very, very weak and watery. I know because that is what is used in our church. Most of our teachers, however, only use the books as a launching pad for their own lessons. So I would fully agree with you about Lifeway books. The problem I am pointing out with Osteen is not, in anyway, limited to Osteen. The evangelical church as a whole is on the downgrade, to use Spurgeon's term. Osteen's popularity, Paula White's popularity, TD Jakes' popularity, and Joyce Myers' popularity serves to prove the point.

I have never heard Joel Osteen preach anything that is out of align with the Word of God, and I believe I'm pretty well grounded in God's Word. And he never asks for money like a lot of televangelits do.

==I have heard him say things that are certainly on the line, but not out of line. He generally stays within the lines of orthodoxy. I will not deny that. However, as I pointed out above, I have seen him do some fancy dancing to avoid offending people. He even apologized for it one time, but he continues to do it when he is asked.

 

[Martin]

Compare this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfwYU2pmWYQ

With this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BZ-N4pruFo

Who is the prophet of God - Joel Osteen, or John MacArthur?

Osteen says that he believes that only God can judge a person's heart. I agree with that. Therefore let me quote what GOD says about who goes to heaven:

"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life and I Myself will raise him up on the last day" -Jn 6:40

"Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" -Jn 14:6

"Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your Name, and in Your Name cast out demons, and in Your Name perform many miracles? And I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness." -Matt 7:21-23

What does God say about who goes to heaven?

Only those who believe in Jesus will enter heaven. There is no other way. Only those who are His sheep, those who know Jesus Christ, only they will enter heaven. All Muslims, all Hindus, all Jews, all new age folks, all atheists, all nice people, and all church goers who do not know the Lord Jesus Christ will not enter heaven. That is the Word of God, that is the truth, and we should never be ashamed of it. Shame on Osteen for being ashamed of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ!

Thank the Lord for men like MacArthur who are not ashamed.

 

[J.D.]

Osteen says that he believes that only God can judge a person's heart. I agree with that. Therefore let me quote what GOD says about who goes to heaven:



What does God say about who goes to heaven?

Only those who believe in Jesus will enter heaven. There is no other way. Only those who are His sheep, those who know Jesus Christ, only they will enter heaven. All Muslims, all Hindus, all Jews, all new age folks, all atheists, all nice people, and all church goers who do not know the Lord Jesus Christ will not enter heaven. That is the Word of God, that is the truth, and we should never be ashamed of it. Shame on Osteen for being ashamed of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ!

Thank the Lord for men like MacArthur who are not ashamed.

I agree with you. Salvation is only through Christ - but if death-bed conversions are possible, and I believe they are, then there's going to be some people in heaven that quite frankly I didn't expect to see. But there's only one way to get there, and unfortunately, it seems to be too hard for some people in high places to say that. I can understand a politician who has to represent all the people being a little shy about it, but someone that professes to be a man of God - well, I just don't understand it. Preachers don't have to go around getting in people's faces about it, but when asked directly, they have to man-up or be shamed.

 

[Allan]

Preachers don't have to go around getting in people's faces about it, but when asked directly, they have to man-up or be shamed.

Can't help it.. I like that! ....... Preach it!!!:thumbs:

 

[J.D.]

Can't help it.. I like that! ....... Preach it!!!:thumbs:

You know, the thing is - if you watched those videos and listened to what Larry King is saying - you can tell he respects someone like John MacArthur, even though he is not a believer. Even the infamous arch-atheist Madalyn Murray Ohare expressed respect for his consistency when she debated the late Carl McIntyr, in comparison with some of the liberal christians she had debated over the years. That debate is available somewhere on the net.

But sadly, it seems the vast majority of nominal christians are not phased by Osteen's infidelity.

However, I can understand if someone gets nothing but negativity, condemnation, and hellfire from their preacher, they may turn to an Osteen from time to time to hear the other side of the story. That's why we have to be careful to declare the whole counsel of God, which includes both condemnation and hope - one for the sinners, the other for the saint.

 

[LadyEagle]

That's why we have to be careful to declare the whole counsel of God, which includes both condemnation and hope - one for the sinners, the other for the saint.

My point. Different people have different needs and different ministries have different purposes. Osteen's primary purpose is to minister to the Body of Christ.

WE BELIEVE…the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.

WE BELIEVE…in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world.

WE BELIEVE…Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe that salvation is found by placing our faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again.

WE BELIEVE…water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and a testimony to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

WE BELIEVE…in the regular taking of Communion as an act of remembering what the Lord Jesus did for us on the cross.

WE BELIEVE…every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God’s Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit and by being conformed to the image of Christ.

WE BELIEVE…as children of God, we are overcomers and more than conquerors and God intends for each of us to experience the abundant life He has in store for us.

http://joelosteen.lakewood.cc/site/PageServer?pagename=JOM_whatwebelieve

 

[LadyEagle]

Romans 2:4 (New International Version)

Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

Romans 2:4 (New King James Version)
Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

 

[J.D.]

My point. Different people have different needs and different ministries have different purposes. Osteen's primary purpose is to minister to the Body of Christ.



http://joelosteen.lakewood.cc/site/PageServer?pagename=JOM_whatwebelieve

Yes, his purpose is to minister to the Body of Christ only inasmuch as it glorifies God. And how does it minister to the Body, or glorify God, to tell half-truths and some outright lies, or deny that Christ is the only way to the Father?

 

[LadyEagle]

And how does it minister to the Body, or glorify God, to tell half-truths and some outright lies,

It doesn't, but is Joel Osteen guilty of this and if so, please post your "quotes" from Joel. I have watched his program quite a few times and never found him to speak half-truths and outright lies.

 

[webdog]

It doesn't, but is Joel Osteen guilty of this and if so, please post your "quotes" from Joel. I have watched his program quite a few times and never found him to speak half-truths and outright lies.

His claim that all christians should be healthy, wealthy and happy is a half truth, if not an all out lie.

 

[Amy.G]

Picture it, 2000 years ago. Paul is wasting away in a filthy Roman prison. In pops Joel Osteen, who says "don't give up Paul, your best life is NOW!


Puleeese.

 

[SBCPreacher]

But Osteen's popularity has to be unprecedented in history. In our visitation program, I can't tell you how many times people have said to us "we don't go to church - we like that guy Osteen on TV, so we just watch him".

They need to know that Osteen won't be there with them through any tough time they face, but the local church will. Osteen won't be standing with them at the graveside of a loved one, but the local church will. No TV preacher can take the place of the local church in people's lives.

But, if all the local church does is point out what everyone is doing wrong, and never teaches the Word of God, the lost don't need that either. They might as well be watching Osteen.

It wouldn't do any good to knock Osteen to them, but they do need to know the importance of the local church.

 

[superwoman8977]

First of all why do you say Osteen doesnt preach the word? I get his daily devotion emailed to me each morning and it starts out with a verse of the day and then a summary of that verse. I have read his 1st book and I am getting ready to read his 2nd and I got alot out of the first book some of what he says is so right what God wants you to hear. Last summer when I was dealing with my husband walking out on me for another woman and everything going on in my life i stumbled across Joel Osteen and his preaching is so much more than prosperity, etc he preaches on common sense things that when you listen to him are like duh! Ok God I am getting it I just needed someone to point out that fact to me. That has happened several times while watching his program or being in his book. When your world is crashing down and you are looking to seek the Lord Joel helped me with that. So dont judge, the man is reaching people all over the world. You need to get into one of his daily devotionals before you get into judging him, you are not perfect either.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

There you go again....Obama this, Obama that.

Sopranette

Pretty soon, we'll all be hearing Obama this, Obama that. I'm already tired of it, and we're nowhere close to done!

 

[queenbee]

Picture it, 2000 years ago. Paul is wasting away in a filthy Roman prison. In pops Joel Osteen, who says "don't give up Paul, your best life is NOW!


Puleeese.

LOL :laugh: I know, I know - I shouldn't, but thanks Amy - I needed my morning laugh with my coffee!!

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

First of all why do you say Osteen doesnt preach the word? I get his daily devotion emailed to me each morning and it starts out with a verse of the day and then a summary of that verse. I have read his 1st book and I am getting ready to read his 2nd and I got alot out of the first book some of what he says is so right what God wants you to hear. Last summer when I was dealing with my husband walking out on me for another woman and everything going on in my life i stumbled across Joel Osteen and his preaching is so much more than prosperity, etc he preaches on common sense things that when you listen to him are like duh! Ok God I am getting it I just needed someone to point out that fact to me. That has happened several times while watching his program or being in his book. When your world is crashing down and you are looking to seek the Lord Joel helped me with that. So dont judge, the man is reaching people all over the world. You need to get into one of his daily devotionals before you get into judging him, you are not perfect either.

Super -

I'm sorry for the things that have happened to you... but please be careful listening to everything Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer say. There is enough truth mixed in to make it sound dead on, but the health/wealth/happiness track is not the way to God. I won't say anything else, but only encourage you to be like the Bereans from Scripture, who listened to the message preached, and then went and searched the Scriptures to prove what they heard was true. If you do that, it doesn't matter what you hear preached... it will be God that expounds upon His Word to you personally. There's nothing better!

 

[Martin]

First of all why do you say Osteen doesnt preach the word? I get his daily devotion emailed to me each morning and it starts out with a verse of the day and then a summary of that verse.

==Of course, that is not equal to preaching the Word of God. Anyone can quote a verse in a devotional style book or article. That does not mean that he is faithfully explaining and teaching the entire counsel of God.

I have read his 1st book and I am getting ready to read his 2nd and I got alot out of the first book some of what he says is so right what God wants you to hear.

==Where is your proof that God wants you to hear what is written on Joel Osteen's book?

Last summer when I was dealing with my husband walking out on me for another woman and everything going on in my life i stumbled across Joel Osteen and his preaching is so much more than prosperity, etc he preaches on common sense things that when you listen to him are like duh! Ok God I am getting it I just needed someone to point out that fact to me. That has happened several times while watching his program or being in his book.

==Again, that may all be very true but it does not mean that he is preaching the Word of God. I could say many of the same things about all sorts of teachers and speakers but that does not mean they are preaching the Word of God. We judge a person's message by the Word of God and not by what we get out of it.

So dont judge, the man is reaching people all over the world.

==Reaching people with what? The Biblical Gospel? No. He is reaching people with a feel good message that lacks Biblical substance.

As for not judging Mr. Osteen's message, we are to judge a teacher's message. Maybe Osteen has not preached on these verses but they tell us to carefully examine, with Scripture, the teaching of teachers (1Jn 4:1, 1Thess 5:21, Acts 17:11-12, Matt 7:15-20, etc). A message maybe nice to hear, and even pragmatic, but that does not mean that it is Biblical. Nor does it mean that the preacher/teacher is doing what they are suppose to be doing. In fact, telling people what they want to hear to make them feel better is a dangerous practice (2Tim 4:1-4). So judge a preacher/teacher's message I will.