Joel Osteen

[music4Him]

MEE did I say something wrong and are getting on me?

I was just stateing that (to me) Joel preaches the ABC's in the bible...not the Einstein stuff. I know thats why some listen to him, because they may not be ready for the "meat" of the word yet. Acually I know someone who recently who was never much on talking about the bible and they started watching Joel and brought up scripture. So yes, sometimes I feel that people need some basics. Nothing wrong with that.

BTW, This might be where we differ, but I won't give em' a break if they ain't preachin the bible, but if no one will provide proof like a email from him...I will give them the benifit of doubt until it proven. I read his website and if you would like the link PM me.

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by music4Him:
MEE did I say something wrong and are getting on me?

No M4H, you didn't say anything wrong.

I was just making a few comments about the possibilities of Joel Osteen.

MEE

 

[MEE]

Music4Him, I found Joel Osteen's website. It tells exactly what his church teaches/believes. I'm not sure if it's the same one you found. It's good, but lacking!

MEE

 

[music4Him]

That would be the one... if it says lakewood.cc in it? I found it lacking a complaint department.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by atestring:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Marcia:
BTW, atestring, your post is known as a straw man.

Excuse me, but I m not sure what you mean by that statement??
YOu have accused me in the past of personal /attack and have accused others of personal attacks. Explain your statement!!!
Is this intended to be a persoanal attack , or did you say this without thinking? </font>[/QUOTE]This is not a personal attack. It is merely an observation of fact. Your statement that I commented on is known as a logical fallacy called a straw man.

 

[Marcia]

Posted by Music4Him
BTW, Since no one else has admitted to sending a email or confronting Ole Joel....

That is not required in this case. Going to the person (Matt. 18) has to do with someone sinning against you.

When a person speaks out publicly, especially when they are being carried on TV or the radio, one has a right to critique any unsound teachings. There is no requirement for confronting someone who is teaching false doctrine, but there are biblical examples of speaking out against them.

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Posted by Music4Him
BTW, Since no one else has admitted to sending a email or confronting Ole Joel....

That is not required in this case. Going to the person (Matt. 18) has to do with someone sinning against you.

When a person speaks out publicly, especially when they are being carried on TV or the radio, one has a right to critique any unsound teachings. There is no requirement for confronting someone who is teaching false doctrine, but there are biblical examples of speaking out against them. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh really? Well it seems to me that if a Christian found something wrong with what someone says, they would atleast let them know?
Kinda like...Uhhhhh excuse me Mr. Joel but that thing you said there don't line up with what the bible teaches... so can you exsplain your self?
No its eaiser for people to tear at them behind their backs instead of confronting them.
BTW, Matthew 18 also is just effective with this situation about Joel Osteen. If you love your neighbor or better yet your brother, would'nt you try to show him his error if he was wrong?

 

[Marcia]

Oh really? Well it seems to me that if a Christian found something wrong with what someone says, they would atleast let them know?
Kinda like...Uhhhhh excuse me Mr. Joel but that thing you said there don't line up with what the bible teaches... so can you exsplain your self?
No its eaiser for people to tear at them behind their backs instead of confronting them.
BTW, Matthew 18 also is just effective with this situation about Joel Osteen. If you love your neighbor or better yet your brother, would'nt you try to show him his error if he was wrong?

I am not tearing him down; I and others critique and evaluate his teachings according to the way the Bible tells us to do.

People tried with Benny Hinn and Gwen Shamblin to discuss their teachings and it went nowhere (also others). In fact, Hinn said he was going to get out his Holy Ghost machine gun and shoot his critics.

 

[El_Guero]

I must have Holy Ghost body armor ...

 

[music4Him]

Marcia~ yet just because people have tried with Benny and Gwen (and others) it makes it ok to give up on others? If anyone has listen to Joel they will know that hes not critical and hes not waaaaaaaay out there like others (i.e Rod Parsley, Jensen Franklin, even Jessie Duplantis to name a few). Just perhaps one might listen and see his error and make and apology and make things right with the errors brought to him? If that happens not only do we gain a brother but the congragation is left intact without the weaker Christians possibly giving up on Christianity altogether. If he don't listen..oh well... atleast we can say we tried, but praise God if he will listen and set things straight.

 

[DHK]

Marcia is right. There are many places in the Bible where such verses as
"Earnestly contend for the faith,"

Acts 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

Acts 20:30-31 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

It is our obligation to warn publicly of false teachers. I gave a quote of his sermon where he teaches that you must have faith in your words rather than faith in Christ. The man is a heretic. Faith in words is not sound doctrine, and needs to be exposed, and exposed publicly. Because he preaches publicly he needs to be exposed publicly.
He is a false teacher; not an erring brother. Therefore Mat.18 does not apply.
DHK

 

[music4Him]

quote by DHK:
__________________________________________________
It is our obligation to warn publicly of false teachers. I gave a quote of his sermon where he teaches that you must have faith in your words rather than faith in Christ. The man is a heretic. Faith in words is not sound doctrine, and needs to be exposed, and exposed publicly. Because he preaches publicly he needs to be exposed publicly.
He is a false teacher; not an erring brother. Therefore Mat.18 does not apply.
DHK
__________________________________________________

Yes DHK your right but before we do that some better have thier facts straight too. Someone had remarked about him and repentance. Well then what about this quote out of Joel mouth to Dallas Morning News?

Quote by Joel:
__________________________________________________
"I just really believe that people respond to a message of hope. You don't go to church to find out what you're doing wrong or how bad you are. I just have a different approach. I believe it's the goodness of God that leads people to repentance."
__________________________________________________

I'm not defending him but I still believe that as Christians we should at least try to confront the issue with the person in question. It would be the Christian thing to do. If he (Joel) is then offended or won't exsplain his actions or words then by all means warn the people of the errors.

Music4Him

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by atestring:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Marcia:
BTW, atestring, your post is known as a straw man.

Excuse me, but I m not sure what you mean by that statement??
YOu have accused me in the past of personal /attack and have accused others of personal attacks. Explain your statement!!!
Is this intended to be a persoanal attack , or did you say this without thinking? </font>[/QUOTE]This is not a personal attack. It is merely an observation of fact. Your statement that I commented on is known as a logical fallacy called a straw man. </font>[/QUOTE]I M TAKING THIS AS A PERSONAL ATTACK.
QUIT ACCUSING EVERYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH YOU OF GIVING YOU A PERSONAL ATTACK UNLESS YOU CAN PRACTICE A LITTLE DISCIPLNE YOURSELF RATHTER THAN PERSONALLY ATTACKING ME AND OTHERS!!!

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by atestring:
I was born again not just by beleving ( the demons believe and tremble) I not only elieved with in my heart but i also confessed with my mouth according to Romans 10:10.
Life and death are in the power of the tongue and blessed are they that eat the fruit thereof.

Then perhaps you would be better off if you:
"Examine yourself to see whether or not you be in the faith."

Salvation is not found in words. There is not power with the tongue when it comes to you and God. God doesn't care about your tongue in salvation.

1 Samuel 1:13 Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken.

There is a definition of prayer. According to your definition, God would never have heard Hannah's prayer because she spoke no words. She didn't move her tongue. The Bible teaches no such heresy. There is no "power" in the tongue when it comes down to the individual and God. Prayer is from the heart, and God does not need vocal words.

Life and death are not in the power of the tongue. That is a New Age heresy.
Life and death are in the hand of Jesus Christ.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]I did not know that Proverbs 18:21 was a new age thing!

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by atestring:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by atestring:
I was born again not just by beleving ( the demons believe and tremble) I not only elieved with in my heart but i also confessed with my mouth according to Romans 10:10.
Life and death are in the power of the tongue and blessed are they that eat the fruit thereof.

Then perhaps you would be better off if you:
"Examine yourself to see whether or not you be in the faith."

Salvation is not found in words. There is not power with the tongue when it comes to you and God. God doesn't care about your tongue in salvation.

1 Samuel 1:13 Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken.

There is a definition of prayer. According to your definition, God would never have heard Hannah's prayer because she spoke no words. She didn't move her tongue. The Bible teaches no such heresy. There is no "power" in the tongue when it comes down to the individual and God. Prayer is from the heart, and God does not need vocal words.

Life and death are not in the power of the tongue. That is a New Age heresy.
Life and death are in the hand of Jesus Christ.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]I did not know that Proverbs 18:21 was a new age thing! </font>[/QUOTE]zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing!

 

[Bro. James Reed]

I have yet to see anyone respond to either of my posts regarding Osteen's comments.

I heard him, with my own ears, say that God's hands are tied until we loose them.

Do you still think that he preaches the truth?

I don't need to email him to know that this is what he said.

BTW, music, do you really think, number 1, that Osteen would respond to a small-fry (all of us normal folks) when he probably receives thousands of emails everyday, and number 2, even if he would normally respond to those emails, why on earth would he respond to someone who is criticizing his teachings?

As I said, he is a great motivator, and I believe he does more good than harm, but that still does not excuse him for preaching untruths just so people will feel good about themselves.

I would much rather feel good about God than myself.

Man can accomplish nothing, but with God, all things are possible. I wish he would preach that for a change instead of saying that man can accomplish anything.

And, no, I don't have internet sources to back up my claims. You can either believe that I heard these first-hand or not. It makes little difference to me because I know what I heard, I know what he preaches, and I know what kind of a person he is when not in church.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by atestring:
I did not know that Proverbs 18:21 was a new age thing!

The Bible also says "There is no God" (Psalms 14:1). Do you believe that too?
Context is everything.

 

[music4Him]

DHK
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

I'm no fool.....no sir-ree I'm gonna live to a hundred and three.... (little Disney song there)

Well I knew there had to be a catch to your post about there being no God. But thats out of context. But lets look at Proverbs 18:20 and 21.

20 A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; and with the increase of his lips shall he be filled.

21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

There ya go..... its not a new age thing ....its bible fact.

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by atestring:
I did not know that Proverbs 18:21 was a new age thing!

The Bible also says "There is no God" (Psalms 14:1). Do you believe that too?
Context is everything. </font>[/QUOTE]I quoted the full verse of Proverbs 18:21.
You did not quote the full verse of Psalms 14:1.
I do believe Psalms 14:1 that says, " the fool hath said in his heart that there is no God."
Do you believe that Proverbs 18:21 is the word of God? If there is a context that I misseed in Proverbs 18:21 please tell me and please tell me what you think God's word is saying in proverbs 18:21.

[ March 15, 2005, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: atestring ]

 

[music4Him]

Bro. James Reed,
Well I'll send a email to him though the joke line email, either he'll have a good laugh, or straighten up and fly right, or let my letter about what some have heard him say roll off his back like water on a ducks back.
I guess it depends on the person, but I would like to know if I said something wrong if millions or just a few are listening to me.

BTW, I do not doubt you on what you said you heard. But as DHK has also proven we can take things out of context too.

I'll write... I'm not a small fry.