The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Benefactor,
You wrote:
Had you gone further into verses 10 through 13 you would have seen things, in Greek, that absolutely refute your premises above.
1. Verses 10 and 11, even without Greek work, refute your idea. Why? Because Jesus came into the world and the world was made through Him and the world did not know Him. Therefore, it cannot be the case that He enlightens every man. Otherwise, as verse 11 states, His own people would not have rejected Him.
The verses following your argument clearly show that the people who rejected Christ were not enlightened.
2. Verse 12 tells us that anyone who receives Him (explained as those who believe in His name), He gave the right to become children of God. Now, that's obvious. Where your argument comes to a screeching halt is verse 13 and the verb egennethesan. This verb is a 3rd person plural, Aorist, Indicative, Passive.
In Greek, any verb which is passive absolutely precludes and prevents the subject from acting upon him/her/it self. In this case egennethesan, being passive, cannot mean that people who believed (in verse 12) did this of themselves.
So, to summarize, if verse 9 stood by itself, you would have a good argument. However, because the passage does progress further and because the explanation by John has this passive verb "Were Born," you cannot make your argument.
Such is the challenge when it comes to the Bible. Context is king, even when reading Greek.
While it is no secret that I am a 5-pointer, I encourage you to make your case for your non-Calvinist position. . .you just can't do it from this particular passage.
Many Blessings to you,
The Archangel
You wrote:
Unfortunately, there is a contextual issue here. While I see your explanation of the Greek (and I think it is fine), you do not go far enough. Unfortunately, you focus on only one verse--John 1:9.This verse without a doubt tells us that the Light of Jesus enlightens every man coming into the world. We are not talking about natural revelation but a supernatural enlightenment.
Let me make this clear to all who read. This verse does not teach universalism or universal salvation. What it does say is that every man coming into the world is enlightened by Christ himself, the true light.
This verse is not just a declaration of universal atonement which is a fact in Scripture. There too, universal atonement is a conditional offer for all mankind to believe and be saved not a statement promoting universalism where all are saved. Atonement is conditional whereby the person must believe for it to be effective, but it is universally available.
Had you gone further into verses 10 through 13 you would have seen things, in Greek, that absolutely refute your premises above.
1. Verses 10 and 11, even without Greek work, refute your idea. Why? Because Jesus came into the world and the world was made through Him and the world did not know Him. Therefore, it cannot be the case that He enlightens every man. Otherwise, as verse 11 states, His own people would not have rejected Him.
The verses following your argument clearly show that the people who rejected Christ were not enlightened.
2. Verse 12 tells us that anyone who receives Him (explained as those who believe in His name), He gave the right to become children of God. Now, that's obvious. Where your argument comes to a screeching halt is verse 13 and the verb egennethesan. This verb is a 3rd person plural, Aorist, Indicative, Passive.
In Greek, any verb which is passive absolutely precludes and prevents the subject from acting upon him/her/it self. In this case egennethesan, being passive, cannot mean that people who believed (in verse 12) did this of themselves.
So, to summarize, if verse 9 stood by itself, you would have a good argument. However, because the passage does progress further and because the explanation by John has this passive verb "Were Born," you cannot make your argument.
Such is the challenge when it comes to the Bible. Context is king, even when reading Greek.
While it is no secret that I am a 5-pointer, I encourage you to make your case for your non-Calvinist position. . .you just can't do it from this particular passage.
Many Blessings to you,
The Archangel