This shows your failure to understand Jesus' atonement for sin! The fact that Jesus did it ONCE, and declared from the cross, "IT IS FINISHED"
This shows your inability to understand your own view, because what you quoted is, in point of fact, a summary of own view of the atonement. You have said that God elects based on our faith. Since you equate justification and election, you believe that God elects AND justifies on the basis of an intrinsic condition of the heart, NOT on the work of Christ. I think you are correct if you speak of the atonement as the ground of justification, but it is NOT the basis of election or calling, and neither is faith. NO TEXT OF SCRIPTURE says that God elects on the basis of faith, foreseen or otherwise.
You do understand that Christ's work is once for all sin. However, since you do not believe that unbelief is a sin, contrary to Scripture, and you believe that the atonement is general in its extent, also contrary to Scripture, your view leads directly to universalism. If Jesus did pay for all our sins, including unbelief, then there is no reason for God not to save anybody, even disbelievers. If He does not save them, using your view of the atonement, this would be double jeopardy and unjust, also contrary to Scripture.
I know the difference between Justification and Sanctification!
Apparently you know the English definitions, but you have NOT shown any meaninful interaction with the doctrinal concepts as taught in Scripture. Really, Wes, I'm STILL waiting on some kind of exposition of Scripture from you.
The issue here is this: You say that I said something that I did not say, and you do it by taking my words and TWISTING THEM to mean something that I do not mean to say! That is the ISSUE!
Whatever, Wes, I'm not going to sit here parsing words with you. You ALREADY hold an unbiblical view of the nature of faith and grace. You ALREADY hold a completely unbiblical understanding regarding unbelief. You ALREADY hold a somewhat unbiblical view of the atonement. You NOWHERE show any understanding of justification as taught in the past 2 milleniums of Christian theology and exegesis, though you have some elements correct, but are not clear. You CONSISTENTLY fail to exposit text to show how it supports any of your theories or contentions. That speaks for itself.
YOU had better believe that HIS Atonment for sins does TRULY JUSTIFY US, for HE is GOD
That speaks for itself, now doesn't it, Wes. You replied, previously,
" I have never said that JESUS DEATH is what saves man! LIVING GOD SAVES MAN!
Yet right here, Wes, you write that the ATONEMENT is what justifies us. (Justification is one of the three doctrines that together and separate make up salvation).
You said God saves man, but then you say that Jesus death saves man. Which is it, Wes? Is it Jesus death or God's declaration that saves? Your language is inconsistent.
I agree, God DOES save man, and the ground of it in terms of the payment required is that Jesus paid for man's sins at the cross. I do not believe this is general. I believe the scope is limited only to Christians. In short God saves man BECAUSE OF the atonement, but the atonement is not THE MEANS OF justification, according to Scripture (Gal. 2:16)
John 6: The Father gives them to the Son and draws them to Him, they come, believe, and are raised on the last day. Why? Because Jesus pays for their sins and because Jesus said He would do the Father's will.
The definition in Christian theology that is used for "justification" is:
"an instanteous legal act of God in which He (1)thinks of our sins as forgiven and Christ's righteousness belonging to us, and (2)declares us to be righteous in His sight.
(Wayne Grudem,
Systematic Theology, Zondervan, 1994, p. 1246.)
Why? On what basis can God do this?
Answer: the atoning work of Jesus on the cross for our sins. The ATONEMENT itself does NOT justify us in space and time. It DOES pay for all of our sins.
How do we know that justification takes place in space and time and not at the cross? Answer:
Paul in Romans 8: 29, 30 places justification AFTER calling. Calling takes place in our own personal space and time, not at Calvary, not in God's mind in eternity past. Justification is an act of God that makes what Jesus did at Calvary effective in man's personal life experience the moment that person receives Christ. ELECTION occurs in God's mind from eternity past. The ground of justification is the atonement. The condition that is met by man for receiving the declaration is faith.
The temporal order of justification is not at all disputed by either Arminians or Calvinists. However, on this the two soteriologies differ: Reformed theology teaches that God gives life and man believes and is then justified. Thus faith is one of the "all spiritual blessings" from God to us imparted via regeneration. Man believes and is justified. Paul is EXTREMELY clear about this in Gal. 2:16 when he writes:
we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ
. ESV
even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ
NASB
What could be more clear than that? The New Testament does not say we are justified by Christ's death itself. It says we are justified by faith in Christ. The definition of "by" is: through or through the medium of."
Arminianism teaches that God elects on the basis of foreseen faith and man believes and is justified. In NEITHER system does the atonement itself justify. It provides the basis by which the Judge is able to declare the sinner forgiven, reconciled to God, and righteous before God.
When were John Smith's sins paid? The Calvinist says when Jesus died for him, just as you say. Our sins are paid at the cross, we say. God declares us righteous (justifies us) when we believe. The Arminian says John Smith's sins are paid when that person believed, when God justifies him.
Do you understand what the two sides believe about that now? Calvinists believe sins are paid for
at the cross. Arminians believe they are paid for
at the moment of justification of the individual. BOTH, however, say that person is justified, e.g. declared righteousm when they believe; until that moment they remain under just condemnation for their sins. What is unclear about this? EVERY theological textbook in EVERY evangelical tradition shares this view. The quabble is over election, NOT justification, and the design of the atonement. BOTH systems understand faith, with regard to justification, to be the instrument by which justification comes to us. (Grudem, 730) One says it is provided by God via regeneration. The other holds that man has it and can thusly use it. That is the only difference.
In short, we are justified BECAUSE OF the work of Christ. We are justified BY MEANS OF faith in Christ. God is the one that justifies BECAUSE OF the work of Christ for us, and BY MEANS of faith in Christ. What is unclear about this? Both Arminian soteriology and Reformed soteriology share this in common without dispute.
