John 3:16 ...whosoever...

[franklinmonroe]

… The issue is who decides that we have met God's requirement? Do we or does God? God does! …

God does not "decide" whether a person has met the requirement. He might rule upon their action in order to recognize it. He may register His approval (or disapproval, as the case may be) but there is no decision to be made. The action either mets His standard or it does not. The objective scale tips one way or the other. God has no just option but to accept the person that mets the criteria of His offer. God is obligated by His own righteousness to honor His promise: genuine belief = eternal life. There is no fine print; there are no loopholes.

… The idea is not that they were not actual believers to a degree, the idea is their "faith" was never credited as righteousness. …

There are no degrees of salvation. Just as a woman can't be partially pregnant, a person cannot be partially saved. That their so-called faith was never "credited" is proof that their belief was not true earnest faith.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:19 KJV​

… but to say He promised if a person sincerely professes, they will be saved is mistaken. …

I never said "professes". I did mention confess (Romans 10:9-10, 13 KJV) --

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. … For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
​

If God didn't fulfill His promises, then all would be lost. I am going to hold on to (believe, claim) God's word, my only hope.

… Recall the four soils of Matthew 13. The second and third soils believed to a degree, yet God did not credit their profession as righteousness. ..

Intellectual assent is not belief. The mental recognition and non-denial of real facts is not faith. Those of the rocky soil and the thorny soil are not truly regenerated hearts.

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. John 6:37 KJV​

 

[franklinmonroe]

… A universalist would claim Jesus took "all the sin" of the world away. At the other end of the spectrum, I say Jesus is taking "the sin" of the world away, one sinner at a time. Whoever God places in Christ (through or based on God crediting the individual's faith in the truth as righteousness) has their sin, part of the world's sin, taken away. ...

It does not seem to me that John the Baptist was trying convey that Jesus would take sin away in little pieces. John 1:29 KJV --

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.​

… The sin of the world was not taken away when Christ died, it is being taken away when God places a person in Christ. Thus we have the ministry of reconciliation.

Jesus said: It is finished (John 19:30). Even before time according to Revelation 13:8 KJV --

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.​

…Notice 2 Corinthians 5:19, God is reconciling the world to Himself through Christ. Thus only those God places in Christ are reconciled.

Not "is"; you misquoted the verse. Paul says God was (past tense) reconciling --

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.​

 

[Van]

Thanks, sorry about not presenting 2 Corinthians 5:19 accurately. But I was not quoting, I was paraphrasing. And I believe the paraphrase is accurate as far as the idea is concerned.

Your view would seem to require, that God had in Christ reconciled the world to Himself. Not how it reads. Note that we have today the ministry of reconciliation.

Yes I know the view that God is reconciling the world, one sinner at a time, is different, but I submit it is the only view that fits with all scripture. And note that the Lamb of God as a once for all sacrifice is taking the aggregate sin of the world. So not so tiny an action in the aggregate. This view is totally consistent with "it is finished," i.e. a once for all sacrifice.

Not to get sidetracked by your translation of Rev. 13:8; in the NASB, NET, HCSB and WEB the slaying is not from the foundation of the world.

When God "decides" whether His standard has been met, that IS His decision.

I did not say nor suggest degrees of salvation. I said degrees of faith, and the second and third soil did not meet God's standard.

So we agree, profession or confession does not automatically save someone, God must credit it as righteousness.

And for the second time, God keeps His promises. But His promise is contingent upon Him crediting our faith as meeting His standard.

Bottom line: For God sacrificially loved fallen mankind in this way, He gave His one of a kind Son so that every one believing into Him will not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Yeshua1]

Thanks, sorry about not presenting 2 Corinthians 5:19 accurately. But I was not quoting, I was paraphrasing. And I believe the paraphrase is accurate as far as the idea is concerned.

Your view would seem to require, that God had in Christ reconciled the world to Himself. Not how it reads. Note that we have today the ministry of reconciliation.

Yes I know the view that God is reconciling the world, one sinner at a time, is different, but I submit it is the only view that fits with all scripture. And note that the Lamb of God as a once for all sacrifice is taking the aggregate sin of the world. So not so tiny an action in the aggregate. This view is totally consistent with "it is finished," i.e. a once for all sacrifice.

Not to get sidetracked by your translation of Rev. 13:8; in the NASB, NET, HCSB and WEB the slaying is not from the foundation of the world.

When God "decides" whether His standard has been met, that IS His decision.

I did not say nor suggest degrees of salvation. I said degrees of faith, and the second and third soil did not meet God's standard.

So we agree, profession or confession does not automatically save someone, God must credit it as righteousness.

And for the second time, God keeps His promises. But His promise is contingent upon Him crediting our faith as meeting His standard.

Bottom line: For God sacrificially loved fallen mankind in this way, He gave His one of a kind Son so that every one believing into Him will not perish but have eternal life.

God decides just to whom salvation os to come, so why would he not meet His own standard then?

And ALl who call upon the Lord shall be saved, as there is no adding to His finished work, as Baptists still hold to saved by Gravr alone thru faith alone, correct?

 

[Van]

LOL!!

If "God decides" who He saves, then for those He saves...He decided met His standards.

What does it mean to call upon the name of the Lord, and who decides if our action meets those standards? God does! Thus all, as determined by God, who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Yes, everyone God puts in Christ is saved by His grace alone, His unmerited favor alone, we do not contribute to it. But we are saved through faith alone, and not though good works. But who decides if our faith is the faith through which salvation comes? God does!!! He alone either credits our faith as righteousness, or not!

Bottom line: For God sacrificially loved fallen mankind in this way, He gave His one of a kind Son so that every one believing into Him will not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Rippon]

LOL!!

If "God decides" who He saves, then for those He saves...He decided met His standards.

Vanology is not biblical.

 

[wpe3bql]

The problem with the "expanded translation" is that adds to scripture on purpose. Why not translate what is said, and then provide study notes as to what you think it means? Burying the commentary in the text is as unwise as it is unsound.

How about, "God sacrificially loved fallen mankind in this way, He gave His one of a kind Son, so that every one believing into Him would not perish but have eternal life?"

Van, et. al.:

All I did was to merely quote what Wuest wrote in his "Expanded Translation." I did not state that I agreed with him on this.

To me there's a larger issue than how so-and-so may have rendered this verse (or any other verse).

As one of my favorite pastors (I've had 8 pastors since I received Christ as Savior in April, 1966.) would often remark, "What about the 'whosoever WON'TS???" :thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Van]

If "God decides" who He saves, then for those He saves...He decided met His standards.

What does it mean to call upon the name of the Lord, and who decides if our action meets those standards? God does! Thus all, as determined by God, who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Yes, everyone God puts in Christ is saved by His grace alone, His unmerited favor alone, we do not contribute to it. But we are saved through faith alone, and not though good works. But who decides if our faith is the faith through which salvation comes? God does!!! He alone either credits our faith as righteousness, or not!

What is unbiblical is to deny Christ died as a ransom for all, that Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, that God sacrificially loved fallen mankind in this way, He gave His one of a kind Son so that every one believing into Him would not perish but be having eternal life.