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John 3.3

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Frogman, Feb 8, 2003.

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  1. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Again, John 3.3: I thought about starting another topic, but thought it best to bring this one back to the fore.

    Jesus said: "...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

    Forgive me brethren for beating this mule to death, but it is a stubborn one.

    First, we see Jesus making the proclamation that this is individual, speaking to Nicodemus, he says "I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

    Next, Jesus hinges this on what we call a 'new birth' thus we hear folks saying, 'I'm a born-again Christian.'

    What does this mean?

    "born" is the Greek gennao (Strong's 1080)--it is taken from a variation of 1085 and means--to procreate [properly of the father, but by extension of the mother]; figuratively to regenerate --being bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

    1085 is genos takem from 1096; meaning "kin" (abstractly or concretely; literally or figuratively; individually or collectively)--meaning, born, country (man), diversity, generation, kind (red), nation, offspring, stock.

    Now, 1096-- ginomai a prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be (generate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being)

    Jesus didn't just say be born, but 'born again'

    "again"-- anothen (509)--taken from 507 meaning from above ; by analogy, from the first,; by implication anew ; from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.

    507-- ano an adverb from 473; upward, or on top; above, brim, high, up.

    473-- anti a primary particle; opposite I.e. instead or because of (rarely in addition to)--for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.

    The implications are that the new birth (being born again) is from above, from the first, and is denoting the contrast in the natural condition of man, (depraved) and one regenerated; the contrast is real, from above is real, from the first is real, the anti--being the substitution, instead of, is such that Christ is our substitute, and has taken our place instead that we have to; thus, we are able to be born from above.

    I do believe, not because Calvin believed, but because I see it in scripture.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
    #21 Frogman, Feb 18, 2003
  2. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    This is a pretty strong declaration on your part. Is God aware of it?

    Why do your children disobey you?
     
    #22 Yelsew, Feb 18, 2003
  3. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    Frogman,
    Who has argued against the source of this new birth? No one here, but we do disagree that regeneration occurs before belief. Belief (faith) comes from hearing and hearing from the Word of God. Regeneration comes after belief, because the unbeliever is not regenerated, unless you want to equate regeneration with belief, in which case I have no disagreement, because changing from unbelief to belief is regenerative in its essence.
     
    #23 Yelsew, Feb 18, 2003
  4. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    How can one believe if he has not been born again?
     
    #24 Skandelon, Feb 18, 2003
  5. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    How can one be born again unless one believes?

    Look at all the other areas of life in which belief is a paramount factor. Not one of the Presidents of the United States became one unwillingly, reluctantly perhaps but not against their will. They all had to give their consent before they could be elected. They had to believe before the fact. The same with becoming Christian. No one becomes Christian against their will, though for some reluctance is a factor.

    Driving a car. Though is it eminently easier to drive a car today, one must still believe they can drive a car or operate any machine for that matter, before the fact or they simply will not try!

    Why would being born again be any different? Before you can be born again you must believe there is such a thing, you must believe in the one who changes you or you will not submit yourself to being born again. You need not understand all there is to understand in order to believe.
     
    #25 Yelsew, Feb 18, 2003
  6. TomMann

    TomMann New Member

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    I am amused by the thought that we might choose what we believe. I don't think we have that luxury. We just follow an inner intuition of what seems real, what seems right. That intuition may be influenced by enviornment or experience, in many instances by our peers.

    There is a great difference between believing something is true and just acting as if it is true. I know quite a few who are acting as if the gospel is true....perhaps it is a learned responce, or the percieved, proper thing to do. From the outside they appear quite christian. Then the wind and waves come and so does their real character.

    Acting as if the gospel is true may effect our morals and behavior.... but truly believing the gospel can change our very essence. But that type of believing does not come by the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God. Unless the Lord builds the house, he who builds labors in vain. Believe it or not God was not talking about building houses.
     
    #26 TomMann, Feb 18, 2003
  7. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    I have asked them this very question... :confused:

    I believe it is because of a vast left wing conspiracy to teach them they are property of the state.

    Scripturally, though, they act in accordance to their nature. Even a newborn is quick in learning to 'lie' to his/her mother. You know this, though because of your vast knowledge from your life experiences, which include sleepless nights holding, carrying, and walking with a crying infant, who on the appearance of sleep you attempt to lay in his/her bed only to find they are immediately wide awake, is this not an 'untruth' they project to create concern in the parent, when there is nothing wrong?

    Yeah, the Left-Wing Conspiracy thing is not to blame, it only takes advantage of the born nature of man.


    P.S. we even spent some time in a car driving to bring sleep on, only to return home and exit the car and find our child wide awake...imagine that!!
    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
    #27 Frogman, Feb 18, 2003
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