John 5:25-29??

[Winman]

This is your philosophy...but scripture does not indicate this anywhere.

Since the fall man's reasoning is twisted and perverted.



This is different than what you say.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

this makes no sense

Let me explain it so that you can understand.

Were you born with faith in Jesus? No.

Does that mean you could NEVER believe in Jesus? No, and the fact that you now believes proves this.

The fact that some men do not have faith in Jesus does not prove they will never have faith in Jesus. It does not prove they do not have the ability to believe.

Faith is based on knowledge and reasoning as Spurgeon wrote. It is not magic. Nobody zaps you with faith.

Spurgeon said;

Now, faith in Christ is like faith in anyone else, it comes to us by the same kind of mental processes, and is based upon simple principles and plain matters of fact,

Spurgeon said faith in Jesus is just like faith in anyone else. It is like trusting your spouse, or your mother and father. It is not some magical force that enters our mind.

We trust people that we know love us. We trust our parents because we know they love us, we trust our spouse because we know they love us.
But a perfect stranger we are reluctant to trust, because we have no knowledge or experience with them.

You folks have made faith into some mysterious thing that no one quite understands, and folks are even less sure they have.

How do you know when you get this mysterious faith? How do you know it is real saving faith? After all, Calvin taught that men can have a false faith that seems so real that a person can be deceived, believing themselves a believer when they are not.

I often get the impression that Calvinism is more about creating doubt than faith.

 

[OldRegular]

This is the strawman you erect. Nobody believes they are a "little lost" and the rest of the hogwash you suggest.

Naughty! Naughty! Naughty! just plain Bad webdog. You should not call Scripture "hogwash"! Jesus Christ died that we might have it.:tear:

 

[OldRegular]

This is the strawman you erect. Nobody believes they are a "little lost" and the rest of the hogwash you suggest.:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:

Sure they do webdog!

Luke 18:10-14
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Sadly the Pharisee sounds somewhat like some "freewillers" talking about those who believe the Doctrines of Grace!

 

[Winman]

Sure they do webdog!

Luke 18:10-14
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Sadly the Pharisee sounds somewhat like some "freewillers" talking about those who believe the Doctrines of Grace!

Boy, you do not know scripture. The Pharisee did not believe he was lost at all. You left out verse 9.

Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

The Pharisee had faith, his faith was in himself. He believed he was righteous. He did not believe he was lost whatsoever.

Everybody has faith, it is the object of our faith that matters. If you trust in a false god you will be lost. If you trust in your own righteousness you will be lost.

 

[Iconoclast]

Let me explain it so that you can understand.

Were you born with faith in Jesus? No.

Does that mean you could NEVER believe in Jesus? No, and the fact that you now believes proves this.

The fact that some men do not have faith in Jesus does not prove they will never have faith in Jesus. It does not prove they do not have the ability to believe.

Faith is based on knowledge and reasoning as Spurgeon wrote. It is not magic. Nobody zaps you with faith.

Spurgeon said;



Spurgeon said faith in Jesus is just like faith in anyone else. It is like trusting your spouse, or your mother and father. It is not some magical force that enters our mind.

We trust people that we know love us. We trust our parents because we know they love us, we trust our spouse because we know they love us.
But a perfect stranger we are reluctant to trust, because we have no knowledge or experience with them.

You folks have made faith into some mysterious thing that no one quite understands, and folks are even less sure they have.

How do you know when you get this mysterious faith? How do you know it is real saving faith? After all, Calvin taught that men can have a false faith that seems so real that a person can be deceived, believing themselves a believer when they are not.

I often get the impression that Calvinism is more about creating doubt than faith.

Spurgeon said faith in Jesus is just like faith in anyone else. It is like trusting your spouse, or your mother and father. It is not some magical force that enters our mind

Do not confuse the details of faith as an instumentality....like Spurgeon describes...with the origin of saving faith granted to the elect at regeneration.:thumbsup::type::thumbsup:

 

[webdog]

Naughty! Naughty! Naughty! just plain Bad webdog. You should not call Scripture "hogwash"! Jesus Christ died that we might have it.:tear:

Blasphemy! Your distorted words are not Scripture! How dare you!

 

[Iconoclast]

I don't have to. Jesus "Lightened me up", when He regenerated/saved me May 24, 2007, at approx. 1:30 am. I have His light now, so I am already "Lightened up".

:laugh::laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

We cannot even begin to understand the holiness of God until we grasp the lostness of man.

Isa 6....and Rev 1 show us that we here on earth cannot have a right view of it. John had seen Jesus after the cross....but in Rev 1 when he sees the glorified Lord he falls as a dead man......When God allows a man to see Jesus savingly ...that person cannot go back, but are changed eternally.

 

[Iconoclast]

Paul agrees...he just disagrees with you using his words out of context

Not everyone has faith in Christ...hence "not all men have faith". Winman is right, it is a fallacious argument to use this verse to say not all men can have saving faith. It is not the faith that saves but the OBJECT of the faith that does.[/QUOTE]

Yes indeed....Jesus seeks and saves His sheep. Each and every one of them ...he finds ...and grants them repentance and faith.....Once given saving faith...the elect exercise it in the obedience of faith.......the non elect cannot do this...because they do not have saving faith to exercise.....not all men have faith.........it does not say ....and not all men{could potentially have faith}...it says not all men have it. They cannot...unless granted or graced by God.

 

[OldRegular]

Blasphemy! Your distorted words are not Scripture! How dare you!

webdog,

If you will check my posts you will see that I always post Scripture in Dark Red!

 

[webdog]

webdog,

If you will check my posts you will see that I always post Scripture in Dark Red!

...and my initial reply to you was done on a post with no Scripture posted. Follow along.

 

[webdog]

Paul agrees...he just disagrees with you using his words out of context

Not everyone has faith in Christ...hence "not all men have faith". Winman is right, it is a fallacious argument to use this verse to say not all men can have saving faith. It is not the faith that saves but the OBJECT of the faith that does.[/QUOTE]

Yes indeed....Jesus seeks and saves His sheep. Each and every one of them ...he finds ...and grants them repentance and faith.....Once given saving faith...the elect exercise it in the obedience of faith.......the non elect cannot do this...because they do not have saving faith to exercise.....not all men have faith.........it does not say ....and not all men{could potentially have faith}...it says not all men have it. They cannot...unless granted or graced by God.

This view is shown wrong by the many instances in the NT where Jesus scolds for a lack of faith and praises others for their strong faith.

 

[convicted1]

Another problem I have with pre-faith regeneration is that y'all state emphatically that they are given life, in this life, the gift of faith, and when they exercise this gift, they are saved(this is how it comes across to me, btw). Now, faith is what justifies us. Without justification we are under condemnation, correct? So, in reality, y'all have someone who has life, and yet are still under condemnation because they haven't placed their God-given gift of faith, in Him.

 

[Luke2427]

Another problem I have with pre-faith regeneration is that y'all state emphatically that they are given life, in this life, the gift of faith, and when they exercise this gift, they are saved(this is how it comes across to me, btw). Now, faith is what justifies us. Without justification we are under condemnation, correct? So, in reality, y'all have someone who has life, and yet are still under condemnation because they haven't placed their God-given gift of faith, in Him.

So?
----------

 

[OldRegular]

For those who believe that saving faith is inherent in fallen man I submit the experience of Abraham:

Romans 4:17-22
17. (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18. Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb:
20. He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21. And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22* And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Here is Abraham about one hundred years old Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations.

Now really and truly and whatever, is that the faith one exercises when he starts his car?:smilewinkgrin::laugh: