John:6:38-39

[robustheologian]

Again, you lack understanding!

Says the one who can't understand English...or the bible for that matter. :laugh:

 

[savedbymercy]

I believe you have "another gospel" and not the gospel that Paul preached if this is what you believe. (Gal.1:8).
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness but unto us it is the power of God."
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Your philosophy nullifies the Great Commission:
"Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
The command is to preach the gospel to every creature to all the unsaved, not to the regenerated.
--You have a false message, a false doctrine.

One is saved only through the gospel:
1Pe 1:23-25
(23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
(24) For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
(25) But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
--The new birth is through the Word of God, through the Gospel.
One cannot be born again without the Gospel; it is an impossibility.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
--It is the gospel by which you are saved. There is no other way.
It is the gospel that both regenerates and saves. There is no other way.

It just occurred to me that you may be a Catholic. Baptismal regeneration is one of the oldest heresies known to mankind. Water can't save anyone. It is just a combination of two hydrogen atoms to one oxygen atoms. It gets you wet and that is all. There is nothing salvic in water. It cannot wash away sins.

Many people do good works and go straight to hell. Good works don't save.
Sincerity doesn't save.
Only Jesus saves. Only Jesus can regenerate a person. Without Christ there is no hope, no forgiveness, no eternal life, no hope of heaven; there is nothing but eternal damnation.
This man did not have Christ.

One can't believe the Gospel who has not been born again! The Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3 and those in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8, and one must be of God to hear Gods words John 8 :47 !

 

[savedbymercy]

Says the one who can't understand English...or the bible for that matter. [emoji23]

Insulting me is not going to give you understanding!

 

[robustheologian]

Insulting me is not going to give you understanding!

You insult me by saying I lack understanding while the whole basis of your insulting me is a lack of understanding English and basic grammar...oh the irony. :laugh:

 

[convicted1]

SBM, you're conflating regeneration with salvation. Regeneration------->salvation, not=salvation...

 

[savedbymercy]

SBM, you're conflating regeneration with salvation. Regeneration------->salvation, not=salvation...

Regeneration is an aspect of Salvation Titus 3:5 ! Man is saved from the power of sin by regeneration !You too lack understanding!

 

[convicted1]

Regeneration is an aspect of Salvation Titus 3:5 ! Man is saved from the power of sin by regeneration !You too lack understanding!

Whatever dude....

 

[savedbymercy]

Whatever dude....

Titus 3:5 !

 

[Robert William]

I believe you have "another gospel" and not the gospel that Paul preached if this is what you believe. (Gal.1:8).
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness but unto us it is the power of God."
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Your philosophy nullifies the Great Commission:
"Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
The command is to preach the gospel to every creature to all the unsaved, not to the regenerated.
--You have a false message, a false doctrine.

One is saved only through the gospel:
1Pe 1:23-25
(23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
(24) For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
(25) But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
--The new birth is through the Word of God, through the Gospel.
One cannot be born again without the Gospel; it is an impossibility.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
--It is the gospel by which you are saved. There is no other way.
It is the gospel that both regenerates and saves. There is no other way.

It just occurred to me that you may be a Catholic. Baptismal regeneration is one of the oldest heresies known to mankind. Water can't save anyone. It is just a combination of two hydrogen atoms to one oxygen atoms. It gets you wet and that is all. There is nothing salvic in water. It cannot wash away sins.

Many people do good works and go straight to hell. Good works don't save.
Sincerity doesn't save.
Only Jesus saves. Only Jesus can regenerate a person. Without Christ there is no hope, no forgiveness, no eternal life, no hope of heaven; there is nothing but eternal damnation.
This man did not have Christ.

There we have it, the pelagian salvation by works gospel.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

At 209 posts, I'm giving a six hour warning. Sometime after 1400 (2pm) Pacific time, I'll close this thread.

 

[DHK]

There we have it, the pelagian salvation by works gospel.

Name-calling doesn't refute a post. I simply shows your lack of comprehension in the Word of God and you total inability in refuting my post. No, I am not Pelagian.

 

[DHK]

One can't believe the Gospel who has not been born again! The Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3 and those in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8, and one must be of God to hear Gods words John 8 :47 !

That is why those that are lost both need to be regenerated and saved which happen at the same time. You negate the Great Commission. When Jesus told the disciples to carry the gospel to then ends of the world was he just joking? Was it an April fool's joke? or was he serious?

 

[BrotherJoseph]

I believe you have "another gospel" and not the gospel that Paul preached if this is what you believe. (Gal.1:8).
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness but unto us it is the power of God."
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. .

Notice in the passage above that you gave the preaching is to them that perish (i.e. the undegenerated) "foolishness", however to the saints that Paul is writing to in Romans it is "the power of God". They could receive the gospel because they were already born again.

Again, in verse 16, the gospel, "is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth", thus they are already believers as this is in the present tense.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
--It is the gospel by which you are saved. There is no other way.
It is the gospel that both regenerates and saves. There is no other way. .

Paul has varying meanings for the word "saved" in the Bible. To prove this, he said he was saved before the world began (II Tim 1:9), when Jesus came into the world (I Tim 1:15), when the Spirit regenerated him (Titus 3:5), when he took heed to himself and the doctrine (I Tim 4:16), and would be saved sometime in the future (Rom 13:11).

Paul clearly mentions five different stages or phases of salvation above.

It just occurred to me that you may be a Catholic. Baptismal regeneration is one of the oldest heresies known to mankind. Water can't save anyone. It is just a combination of two hydrogen atoms to one oxygen atoms. It gets you wet and that is all. There is nothing salvic in water. It cannot wash away sins.

No I am not Roman Catholic, I am Primitive Baptist (as it states on my profile)., and do not believe in baptismal regeneration. As I said in a prior post that is a heresy of the Catholic church.

Regarding the gospel, the purpose of the gospel is to bring those quickened by the Spirit to the intelligible discovery of the Lord Jesus. Though the Spirit produces life without the means of the preached word, it is the gospel which brings this life and immortality to light (Rom 1:16-17, 2Tim 1:9-10).

The gospel establishes believers in truth, convicts them of their sins, and leads them to repentance (Ps 119:9-11, Acts 17:30-31, Col 1:3-6, 2Tim 3:16-17) that God may be glorified, both by their profession and works (Mt 5:16, Acts 13:48, Rom 15:8-9, 1Cor 6:20, Philip 2:9-11, 2Thes 1:12, 2Thes 3:1).

Many people do good works and go straight to hell. Good works don't save.
Sincerity doesn't save.
Only Jesus saves. Only Jesus can regenerate a person. Without Christ there is no hope, no forgiveness, no eternal life, no hope of heaven; there is nothing but eternal damnation.
This man did not have Christ.

If Cornelius was not born again, why was his offering (his alms) coming ups as a "memorial before God" (Acts 10:4)? God accepted his offering, this is a sign he was born again. God does not accept the offerings of unbelievers such as when Cain made a sacrifice.

Also please explain this, as the men Cornelius sent approached Joppa, the Lord was giving the apostle Peter a vision telling him "What God hath (past tense) cleansed (and not, "What God will cleanse when the preacher comes") that call not common Acts 10:15

 

[savedbymercy]

That is why those that are lost both need to be regenerated and saved which happen at the same time. You negate the Great Commission. When Jesus told the disciples to carry the gospel to then ends of the world was he just joking? Was it an April fool's joke? or was he serious?

What you are saying is invalid and not found in scripture !

However, a Lost person cannot believe the Gospel simply because while in a lost state the Gospel is being hid from them that they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Also, if one has never been born again or born of God, they #1 Cannot Hear God's Words Jn 8:47

#2 They cannot please God Rom 8:8 !

Faith pleases God Heb 11:6, but those in the flesh cannot please God, so they cannot exercise Faith, lest you calling scripture a lie !

 

[BrotherJoseph]

That is why those that are lost both need to be regenerated and saved which happen at the same time. You negate the Great Commission. When Jesus told the disciples to carry the gospel to then ends of the world was he just joking? Was it an April fool's joke? or was he serious?

This command was to the apostles and the Scriptures make it abundantly clear that the apostles did indeed fulfill this command. Several years after the command was given, the apostle Paul reported that the gospel had come into "all the world" (Col. 1:6) and had been "preached to every creature which is under heaven" (Col. 1:23)."

Also, when Christ placed this "great commission" upon His apostles, He promised them that great signs and wonders would accompany the fulfilling of this commission. These signs would be in the form of special apostolic powers, such as the ability to cast out demons and the ability to drink any sort of deadly poison and remain unharmed (Mark 16:17-18). The fact that these special powers are no longer with us is a further proof that the "great commission" has been fulfilled.

 

[Robert William]

Name-calling doesn't refute a post. I simply shows your lack of comprehension in the Word of God and you total inability in refuting my post. No, I am not Pelagian.

Pelagianism
The teaching of a monk named Pelagius in the fifth Century. He taught that man's will was and still is free to choose good or evil and there is no inherited sin (through Adam). Every infant born into the world is in the same condition as Adam before the fall and becomes a sinner because he sins. This is opposed to the Biblical teaching that we are by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:3) and that we sin because we are sinners. Pelagius said we are able to keep the commandments of God because God has given us the ability. Therefore, there is no need of redemption and the crucifixion of Jesus is merely a supreme example of love, humility, obedience, and sacrifice. This heresy has its relatives in the form of the cults that deny the total dependence upon God and maintain that salvation is obtainable through our own efforts. (Compare with Arminianism and Calvinism.)

Synergism
Synergism is the teaching that we cooperate with God in our efforts of salvation. This is opposed to monergism which is the teaching that God is the sole agent involved in salvation. Cults are synergistic in that they teach that God's grace combined with our efforts are what makes forgiveness of sins possible.

Arminianism
Arminianism is a theological system that was begun by James Arminius, a Dutch pastor and theologian. There are five main tenets of Arminianism: 1) God elects or reproves on the basis of foreseen faith or unbelief, 2) Christ died for all men and for every man, although only believers are saved, 3) Man is so depraved that divine grace is necessary unto faith or any good deed, 4) This grace may be resisted, 5) Whether all who are truly regenerate will certainly persevere in the faith is a point which needs further investigation. (Compare with Calvinism)

 

[DHK]

Notice in the passage above that you gave the preaching is to them that perish (i.e. the undegenerated) "foolishness", however to the saints that Paul is writing to in Romans it is "the power of God". They could receive the gospel because they were already born again.

Again, in verse 16, the gospel, "is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth", thus they are already believers as this is in the present tense.

Of course it is the power of God to believers. The entire Word of God is:
(MKJV) For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
--It is a sharp and powerful two-edged sword in the hand of the believer. It is "the power of God UNTO salvation." It is the lost, unregenerated person that needs this powerful message in order to be saved.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
--They are the ones that are perishing; they are unregenerated. Unless they have the gospel they will perish for all eternity without Christ in the Lake of Fire tormented forever without hope of salvation--because some don't believe the gospel is for them. What a shame!

Paul has varying meanings for the word "saved" in the Bible. To prove this, he said he was saved before the world began (II Tim 1:9), when Jesus came into the world (I Tim 1:15), when the Spirit regenerated him (Titus 3:5), when he took heed to himself and the doctrine (I Tim 4:16), and would be saved sometime in the future (Rom 13:11).

Paul clearly mentions five different stages or phases of salvation above.

You can twist the meaning of Scripture but it doesn't change the meaning of these verses in the context in which they are given.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
--It is the gospel by which you are saved. There is no other way.
It is the gospel that both regenerates and saves. There is no other way. .
--Your lame response doesn't change the truth of these verses, does it?

I have to "save" my self from poor health by taking care of my body. But that is not what those verses say. The word "save" has many meanings according to its context. Context is key. You are obviously avoiding it.

Regarding the gospel, the purpose of the gospel is to bring those quickened by the Spirit to the intelligible discovery of the Lord Jesus.

Paul wrote:
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
--It is obvious that the gospel, the cross of Christ, was for those that had no light. It was for those that had never been illuminated.
--Where did Paul go with this great message? To those that had been illuminated? Hardly!
Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
--He went where no man had ever been before, where Christ's name had never been preached before, where it was impossible for souls to have been regenerated. You philosophies are vain.

Though the Spirit produces life without the means of the preached word, it is the gospel which brings this life and immortality to light (Rom 1:16-17, 2Tim 1:9-10).

Yes, the gospel brings light, life, and immortality. The Spirit works through the Word.

The gospel establishes believers in truth,

The gospel gives unbelievers the truth they never had before. See above--
Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

[It] convicts them of their sins, and leads them to repentance (Ps 119:9-11, Acts 17:30-31, Col 1:3-6, 2Tim 3:16-17) that God may be glorified, both by their profession and works (Mt 5:16, Acts 13:48, Rom 15:8-9, 1Cor 6:20, Philip 2:9-11, 2Thes 1:12, 2Thes 3:1).
The Holy Spirit working through the Word of God convicts of sin.

If Cornelius was not born again, why was his offering (his alms) coming ups as a "memorial before God" (Acts 10:4)? God accepted his offering, this is a sign he was born again. God does not accept the offerings of unbelievers such as when Cain made a sacrifice.

Because God is a merciful God and is not bounded by the dictates of Calvin. Who do you think Calvin is that he can command God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also please explain this, as the men Cornelius sent approached Joppa, the Lord was giving the apostle Peter a vision telling him "What God hath (past tense) cleansed (and not, "What God will cleanse when the preacher comes") that call not common Acts 10:15

God was teaching Peter that he had to rid himself of his Jewish prejudices if he was going to be effective in this dispensation of grace.
First, if he was to enter a Gentile house, he would have to eat Gentile food.
All food is clean. He was told not to call food that God called clean, "unclean!" That was the first lesson.

Second, he was to accept Gentiles as clean, which previously Jews would not accept at all. They were unclean to them so much so that they would not eat with them, nor even enter their houses. Often they wouldn't even greet them.

Peter had to overcome both of these cultural barriers, and thus God spoke to him in this manner.
Cornelius was not regenerated; was not saved, and desperately needed the gospel if he were to have his sins forgiven and eternal life granted unto him. Peter was commanded to go to him with the gospel--the only way that he could both be regenerated and saved. Note that the Holy Spirit did not come until after Peter came.

 

[DHK]

Pelagianism
The teaching of a monk named Pelagius in the fifth Century. He taught that man's will was and still is free to choose good or evil and there is no inherited sin (through Adam). Every infant born into the world is in the same condition as Adam before the fall and becomes a sinner because he sins. This is opposed to the Biblical teaching that we are by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:3) and that we sin because we are sinners. Pelagius said we are able to keep the commandments of God because God has given us the ability. Therefore, there is no need of redemption and the crucifixion of Jesus is merely a supreme example of love, humility, obedience, and sacrifice. This heresy has its relatives in the form of the cults that deny the total dependence upon God and maintain that salvation is obtainable through our own efforts. (Compare with Arminianism and Calvinism.)

Synergism
Synergism is the teaching that we cooperate with God in our efforts of salvation. This is opposed to monergism which is the teaching that God is the sole agent involved in salvation. Cults are synergistic in that they teach that God's grace combined with our efforts are what makes forgiveness of sins possible.

Arminianism
Arminianism is a theological system that was begun by James Arminius, a Dutch pastor and theologian. There are five main tenets of Arminianism: 1) God elects or reproves on the basis of foreseen faith or unbelief, 2) Christ died for all men and for every man, although only believers are saved, 3) Man is so depraved that divine grace is necessary unto faith or any good deed, 4) This grace may be resisted, 5) Whether all who are truly regenerate will certainly persevere in the faith is a point which needs further investigation. (Compare with Calvinism)

All proof you don't know what you are talking about.
Meaning you quoted correctly but ascribed falsely to those you directed these labels to. Learn about the positions of others before you go lambasting them with other labels.

 

[DHK]

This command was to the apostles and the Scriptures make it abundantly clear that the apostles did indeed fulfill this command. Several years after the command was given, the apostle Paul reported that the gospel had come into "all the world" (Col. 1:6) and had been "preached to every creature which is under heaven" (Col. 1:23)."

More scripture taken out of context.
Col 1:6 which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and increasing—as it also does among you, since the day you heard it and understood the grace of God in truth,
--IOW the gospel is for the whole world.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
--God uses men to reach all men with the gospel. Every man who wishes to be reached shall be reached, and you have that obligation to reach them. Suppose some die without the gospel. Their blood will be upon your hands in the judgment as you stand before God, for you neglected your duty in the Great Commission.
The evidence in the verses you quoted is that the early church did not neglect their duty "in the world that they lived in." What about in the world you live in?

Also, when Christ placed this "great commission" upon His apostles, He promised them that great signs and wonders would accompany the fulfilling of this commission. These signs would be in the form of special apostolic powers, such as the ability to cast out demons and the ability to drink any sort of deadly poison and remain unharmed (Mark 16:17-18). The fact that these special powers are no longer with us is a further proof that the "great commission" has been fulfilled.

The spiritual gifts were given to the apostles of the first century as you say.
That doesn't negate the Great Commission which is repeated in every Gospel and in the Book of Acts without mention of the spiritual gifts. You still have an obligation.
Acts 1:8 is very clear about being witnesses into all the world. What are you doing about it?

 

[savedbymercy]

More scripture taken out of context.
Col 1:6 which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and increasing—as it also does among you, since the day you heard it and understood the grace of God in truth,
--IOW the gospel is for the whole world.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
--God uses men to reach all men with the gospel. Every man who wishes to be reached shall be reached, and you have that obligation to reach them. Suppose some die without the gospel. Their blood will be upon your hands in the judgment as you stand before God, for you neglected your duty in the Great Commission.
The evidence in the verses you quoted is that the early church did not neglect their duty "in the world that they lived in." What about in the world you live in?

The spiritual gifts were given to the apostles of the first century as you say.
That doesn't negate the Great Commission which is repeated in every Gospel and in the Book of Acts without mention of the spiritual gifts. You still have an obligation.
Acts 1:8 is very clear about being witnesses into all the world. What are you doing about it?

The Gospel can be preached everywhere, yet only the saved can and do believe it ! You see, to the Lost, the Gospel is hid so that they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

See, while man is in a lost state, the god of this world, satan, has their minds blind !