John:6:38-39

[Protestant]

Agreed. Carnality; Worldliness--God hates it; He always has:

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

A carnal Christian is as good as the enemy of God. God hates it.

A carnal Christian is an unregenerate professing Christian.

His faith is self-induced from a carnal heart.

Therefore, it is carnal faith which cannot save.

The Parable of the 4 Soils teaches this truth.

Only the heart that has been Holy Ghost prepared/circumcised can receive the Word, be rooted in Christ, ultimately bearing good fruit which remains.

 

[DHK]

What most of you do is isolate 1Cor.2:14 out of its context and then give it its own unique meaning. It cannot be isolated from the context!
I have given the context more than once. Since you refuse to listen to me, I will quote another author, with context, that you will be able to discern the truth of this verse:

2:14. Since only spiritual people are able to receive spiritual truths, it follows that the man without the Spirit, an unregenerate person, would not and could not receive the message of wisdom regardless of his intellectual abilities or accomplishments (1:20). Like a deaf critic of Bach or a blind critic of Raphael is the unregenerate critic of God's Word.
2:15-16. On the other hand a person possessing the Spirit and guided by Him is able to evaluate and apply all things the Spirit reveals (v. 10).
The spiritual man can be judged only by God (4:3-5), not by unregenerated people (2:15) or by worldly Christians (3:1-3). To have the mind of Christ is to be obedient to God's revelation (Phil.2:5-8), as were the spiritual people in the Corinthian church.
3:1-4. However, this was not true of all at Corinth. When Paul came and preached Christ to them, they believed. By faith they were justified and granted peace with God (Rom.5:1-2). No doubt Paul taught them all the blessings that came to them as Christians, what Paul called milk. At that time their way of thinking and living was only beginning to be transformed (Rom.12:2). They were still greatly influenced by worldly thinking and behavior--they were infants in Christ.
But the "message of the Cross" (1Cor.1:18) concerned more than justification. It also concerned sanctification. It called for a renewal of attitude and action in response to God's revelation. It called for righteousness in thought and deed (Heb.5:11-14). And this part of the message of "Christ...crucified" (1Cor.2:2), this solid food (3:2), the Corinthians had spurned. As a result they were still worldly (v. 3). Instead of mature behavior characterized by humility and concern for others--obedience to God--the Corinthians were infantile, self-centered, and therefore divisive (v.4; cf. 1:12).

From Walvoord and Zuck.
Note when they say "worldly," the KJV translates "carnal." They were carnal Christians. When 1Cor.2:14 is read in the context of chapter 3 it is obvious that it includes worldly/carnal Christians who not only live in this carnal world, but live according to this carnal world. And there are many that do. They eat, drink, act, just like an animal does, with no regard for God or others.

 

[DHK]

A carnal Christian is an unregenerate professing Christian.

His faith is self-induced from a carnal heart.

Therefore, it is carnal faith which cannot save.

The Parable of the 4 Soils teaches this truth.

Only the heart that has been Holy Ghost prepared/circumcised can receive the Word, be rooted in Christ, ultimately bearing good fruit which remains.

That is your opinion. You are entitled to it.

 

[Robert William]

I fully realize that. Have you never acted out of your carnal self?
Or are you spiritual in all that you do--meaning of course that you never sin, have attained entire sanctification.
Beware of the teaching of 1John 1:8,10, before you answer that.

Adam Clarke says this:

The word in question that you are ignoring is natural man, the reason why you are ignoring it is because it does not fit into your false teaching free will idol.

 

[Robert William]

That is your opinion. You are entitled to it.

Opinions don't fit in with biblical theology, another one of a billion opinions means zero, one person is right and the other is wrong, and scripture wins because it's the final authority.

 

[DHK]

Opinions don't fit in with biblical theology, another one of a billion opinions means zero, one person is right and the other is wrong, and scripture wins because it's the final authority.

I have given more than just opinion, and I haven't ignored "natural man."
You have ignored both context and the basic meaning of the word, which I have explained more than once. It seems as if you are unable to answer my posts or simply just ignore them. Debate is not ignoring what the other person says. If you can't refute it, then fine.

 

[Rippon]

1 Corinthians 2:14 :

"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." (NIV)

Without the Spirit. An unsaved person does not have the inwelling of the Holy Spirit.

This person cannot accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, but considers them foolishness.

The things that come from the Spirit of God cannot be understood by anyone who doesn't have the Holy Spirit. These "things" are only discerned through the Spirit.

The verse says what it says and means what it says.

However DHK tells us:

"2:14 refers to the carnal Corinthians not to the unsaved." (Post 51)

"A natural person is simply 'in the flesh' which is 'a babe in Christ,' or one who isn't grown." (Post 53)

In Post 62 DHK quotes from Walvoord and Zuck. This is a snip from which he quoted:"...it follows that the man without the Spirit, an unregenerate person..."

Adam Clarke :"But the natural man...without the regenerating grace of God."

Robertson's Word Pictures : 'A natural man' (an unregenerate man).

DHK, be honest in handling the Word of Truth.

 

[DHK]

1 Corinthians 2:14 :


DHK, be honest in handling the Word of Truth.

I am. These men are "just men." They are not infallible. I take what I can from them, and leave the rest. In some things we agree and others we don't. Unlike some Calvinists I don't blindly follow some man's teaching.

CONTEXT:
Let's try once again. Put away your Calvinism and look at the Word.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

No man has seen heaven. No man can even comprehend what eternity has in store for--no matter how deeply we study and understand the Bible, we will never come to that understanding of what God has in store for us.

However, God, by His Spirit, does reveal some things to those who spend time with HIM, and with His WORD. Both go together. Prayer and the study of God's Word. It is the Holy Spirit the guides one into the "deep things of God," as one searches (the Word).
The deep things of God is the subject here which is being ignored.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Look at the contrast here:
Even in human affairs no one knows what a man is thinking but he himself--the spirit of man, or his mind.
So in the spiritual realm the one who understands spiritual things is the Spirit of God.
--What is at stake here is the doctrine of illumination. How we understand the Word of God is through the Spirit of God who illuminates the believer's mind.

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
--The great emphasis here is the emphasis on the Holy Spirit that is given to us for the purpose of freely receiving the deep truths of God which are in His Word. His revelation is of utmost importance to us.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Now what has just been described? It was a process of how God gave revelation to the apostles. It was through His Spirit. It was inspired. And now, as we read, the Spirit gives us illumination--understanding.
He teaches us, helping us in comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.
No unsaved man and no carnal Christian would do this.
God illuminates the minds of those that are considered "spiritual," not "carnal." There are man "carnal" Christians. They are "of the world."

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
--The letter is written to Christians. It is about illumination. Not one word has been said about the unsaved. The context is not about the unsaved. The entire context is speaking about "the spiritual" Christian vs. "the carnal" Christian, and their ability to understand the word of God--the deep things of the Word of God. A baby Christian, an immature Christian, a carnal Christian, does not and cannot search out the deep things of the Word of God. This kind of Christian is defined as "the natural man."

(ISV) A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can't understand them because they are spiritually evaluated.

He isn't spiritual because he is carnal, not because he isn't saved.

1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
OTOH, a spiritual man can rightly judge or discern the wonderful truths, the deep truths of the Word of God. He is not a mere babe in Christ.

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
--God cannot be known by mere intellect.
The only way to know God is by a close relationship with Christ, i.e., through the Spirit of Christ.

1Co 3:1-3
(1) And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
(2) I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
(3) For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
--But now Paul addresses them as:
Brethren, believers in Christ,
Carnal--four times in four verses.
Babes in Christ,
Able only to drink the milk of Word and not be fed with the meat.

They are carnal immature believers.
Verse fourteen refers to their state of spiritual maturity, their inability to comprehend the Bible. It is the doctrine of illumination. Their hearts are not illuminated because they are taken up with the base things of this world instead. They have not grown in Christ.
There is nothing in this context that refers to unbelievers.

 

[Revmitchell]

The word in question that you are ignoring is natural man, the reason why you are ignoring it is because it does not fit into your false teaching free will idol.

You are assigning motive. How do you know what his motive is? Can you read his mind? Or does this action by you just fill a personal need.

 

[Rippon]

DHK, that which is plainly stated in the Scriptures you have mangled.

Look at 1 Cor. 2:12 :
"What we have received is not the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God so that we may understand."

Contrast the above with what it says in verse 14 :"the person without the Spirit." In verse 14 someone without the Spirit is not a believer --is not saved. There are no ifs ands or buts about it.
And that person in 1 Cor. 2:14 does not understand the things of God because the Holy Spirit does not reside within.

Look at Romans 8:9 :
"if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ."

The person in 1 Cor. 2:14 does not have the Spirit of Christ --the Spirit of God --the Holy Spirit. All three terms mean the same thing. The one in 1 Cor. 2:14 does not belong to Christ --is a non-Christian.

Look at 1 Cor. 3:16 :
"Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?"

A person such as the one cited in 1 Cor. 2:14 is without the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not indwell such a one.

Look at 1 Cor. 6:19 :
"Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?"

I'm just layering in the fact that someone without the Spirit is not saved. If the Holy Spirit does not dwell within, that person has not received from the Lord faith, repentance --salvation.

Cast a gander at 2 Thess. 1:22:
"set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come."

The one without the Holy Spirit has no such deposit --no guarantee for eternity --there is no seal of ownership on an unsaved individual.

Read Ephesians 2:22:
"And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit."

The one in 1 Cor. 2:14 does not have the Holy Spirit indwelling. That person is not saved.

It is all so clear. The Scriptures are true. Are you willing to concede that you have been wrong?

 

[The Biblicist]

The natural man is a carnal one, one who acts according to the flesh.
Just because we live in the world, does not give us license to live "according to the world," but many do, and the Corinthians did. That is what the verse was teaching and especially in chapter 3 does Paul point this out.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

You need to reread what I said because it is self-evident you did not read it carefully. The "carnal" or "Natural" man refers to the unregenerate man. In 1 Corinthians 3:1 Paul did not say "but IS carnal" but said "AS unto carnal" He is using a SIMILE! He saying you are acting like LOST/UNREGENERATE people, like infants who are the epitomy of the unregnerate state.

It is true the child of God is not wholly regenerate, but has an unregenerate condition - the literal flesh wherein the law of sin rules. Therefore, that is why he acts at times like a lost man because he follows "after the flesh" but he is not "in the flesh." The phrase "in the flesh" NEVER refers to a regenerate person - NEVER! Romans 8:7-8 makes that very clear, that those "in the flesh" "ARE NONE OF HIS".

 

[The Biblicist]

I am. These men are "just men." They are not infallible. I take what I can from them, and leave the rest. In some things we agree and others we don't. Unlike some Calvinists I don't blindly follow some man's teaching.

CONTEXT:
Let's try once again. Put away your Calvinism and look at the Word.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

No man has seen heaven. No man can even comprehend what eternity has in store for--no matter how deeply we study and understand the Bible, we will never come to that understanding of what God has in store for us.

However, God, by His Spirit, does reveal some things to those who spend time with HIM, and with His WORD. Both go together. Prayer and the study of God's Word. It is the Holy Spirit the guides one into the "deep things of God," as one searches (the Word).
The deep things of God is the subject here which is being ignored.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Look at the contrast here:
Even in human affairs no one knows what a man is thinking but he himself--the spirit of man, or his mind.
So in the spiritual realm the one who understands spiritual things is the Spirit of God.
--What is at stake here is the doctrine of illumination. How we understand the Word of God is through the Spirit of God who illuminates the believer's mind.

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
--The great emphasis here is the emphasis on the Holy Spirit that is given to us for the purpose of freely receiving the deep truths of God which are in His Word. His revelation is of utmost importance to us.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Now what has just been described? It was a process of how God gave revelation to the apostles. It was through His Spirit. It was inspired. And now, as we read, the Spirit gives us illumination--understanding.
He teaches us, helping us in comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.
No unsaved man and no carnal Christian would do this.
God illuminates the minds of those that are considered "spiritual," not "carnal." There are man "carnal" Christians. They are "of the world."

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
--The letter is written to Christians. It is about illumination. Not one word has been said about the unsaved. The context is not about the unsaved. The entire context is speaking about "the spiritual" Christian vs. "the carnal" Christian, and their ability to understand the word of God--the deep things of the Word of God. A baby Christian, an immature Christian, a carnal Christian, does not and cannot search out the deep things of the Word of God. This kind of Christian is defined as "the natural man."

(ISV) A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can't understand them because they are spiritually evaluated.

He isn't spiritual because he is carnal, not because he isn't saved.

1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
OTOH, a spiritual man can rightly judge or discern the wonderful truths, the deep truths of the Word of God. He is not a mere babe in Christ.

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
--God cannot be known by mere intellect.
The only way to know God is by a close relationship with Christ, i.e., through the Spirit of Christ.

1Co 3:1-3
(1) And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
(2) I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
(3) For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
--But now Paul addresses them as:
Brethren, believers in Christ,
Carnal--four times in four verses.
Babes in Christ,
Able only to drink the milk of Word and not be fed with the meat.

They are carnal immature believers.
Verse fourteen refers to their state of spiritual maturity, their inability to comprehend the Bible. It is the doctrine of illumination. Their hearts are not illuminated because they are taken up with the base things of this world instead. They have not grown in Christ.
There is nothing in this context that refers to unbelievers.

No! The terms "carnal" and "natural" refers to that aspect of a child of God that has not been regenerated - "the flesh". What has been born of Spirit is spirit - NOT THE FLESH! Our flesh has NEVER been regenerated. So the term "carnal" and "natural" and "fleshly" does not refer to A TYPE OF CHRISTIAN but refers to the unregenerate nature whether it is the lost man as a whole or the unglorified flesh and law of sin still operating in a saved person. It is the UNREGENERATE NATURE. The most "spiritual" man in this present world still operates carnally at times or "after the flesh" at times. That does not make him a "carnal Christian" or "baby Christian" but all Christians at all times are "in the Spirit" but not always walking "in the Spirit." Whenever they are not walking "in the Spirit" they are walking "AFTER the flesh." They are never "in the flesh" as all who are "in the flesh" ARE NONE OF HIS.

Every person on this forum, the administrators, the moderators, the guests all walk "after the flesh" and are all "carnal" whenever they are not walking "in the Spirit". Therefore, "carnal" is not a CLASS of Christians but the state of ALL CHRISTIANS whenever they operate according to the flesh or after the flesh, but no Christian is "in the flesh."

 

[Robert William]

No! The terms "carnal" and "natural" refers to that aspect of a child of God that has not been regenerated - "the flesh". What has been born of Spirit is spirit - NOT THE FLESH! Our flesh has NEVER been regenerated. So the term "carnal" and "natural" and "fleshly" does not refer to A TYPE OF CHRISTIAN but refers to the unregenerate nature whether it is the lost man as a whole or the unglorified flesh and law of sin still operating in a saved person. It is the UNREGENERATE NATURE. The most "spiritual" man in this present world still operates carnally at times or "after the flesh" at times. That does not make him a "carnal Christian" or "baby Christian" but all Christians at all times are "in the Spirit" but not always walking "in the Spirit." Whenever they are not walking "in the Spirit" they are walking "AFTER the flesh." They are never "in the flesh" as all who are "in the flesh" ARE NONE OF HIS.

Every person on this forum, the administrators, the moderators, the guests all walk "after the flesh" and are all "carnal" whenever they are not walking "in the Spirit". Therefore, "carnal" is not a CLASS of Christians but the state of ALL CHRISTIANS whenever they operate according to the flesh or after the flesh, but no Christian is "in the flesh."

Such a mix mash of confusion all to protect that cursed free will idol.

You need to reread what the Biblicist has said. http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2205747&postcount=71

By the way, good job Biblicist.

 

[savedbymercy]

No! The terms "carnal" and "natural" refers to that aspect of a child of God that has not been regenerated - "the flesh". What has been born of Spirit is spirit - NOT THE FLESH! Our flesh has NEVER been regenerated. So the term "carnal" and "natural" and "fleshly" does not refer to A TYPE OF CHRISTIAN but refers to the unregenerate nature whether it is the lost man as a whole or the unglorified flesh and law of sin still operating in a saved person. It is the UNREGENERATE NATURE. The most "spiritual" man in this present world still operates carnally at times or "after the flesh" at times. That does not make him a "carnal Christian" or "baby Christian" but all Christians at all times are "in the Spirit" but not always walking "in the Spirit." Whenever they are not walking "in the Spirit" they are walking "AFTER the flesh." They are never "in the flesh" as all who are "in the flesh" ARE NONE OF HIS.

Every person on this forum, the administrators, the moderators, the guests all walk "after the flesh" and are all "carnal" whenever they are not walking "in the Spirit". Therefore, "carnal" is not a CLASS of Christians but the state of ALL CHRISTIANS whenever they operate according to the flesh or after the flesh, but no Christian is "in the flesh."

Paul says that you are not in the flesh if the Spirit of God /Christ dwells in us Rom 8:9 !

 

[DHK]

You need to reread what I said because it is self-evident you did not read it carefully. The "carnal" or "Natural" man refers to the unregenerate man. In 1 Corinthians 3:1 Paul did not say "but IS carnal" but said "AS unto carnal" He is using a SIMILE! He saying you are acting like LOST/UNREGENERATE people, like infants who are the epitomy of the unregnerate state.

Yes, they are acting just like the world, just like the unsaved, just like the unregenerate. They are carnal Christians.
There are many today that walk out of their Baptist churches and live like the world. The world can't tell the difference whether or not they are a Christian.

This is what "New Calvinism" is all about. How does Al Mohler attract young people? He sponsors a "hip hop" dance to get them in. There is nothing spiritual about that. The "New Calvinist" sees nothing wrong with drinking, going into bars, etc. They don't even know what "worldliness" is because they are so caught up in it themselves. They fit the category of "carnal," "worldly" and have a hard time growing close to God as a result of it. The spiritual man and the flesh do not mix. There is a war between the two. When the Christian gives into his flesh nature he is warring against God.
That is why James said he has become the enemy of God. The flesh is at war with God Himself. The flesh cannot please God. But "New Calvinism" strives to please God "in the flesh."
Hard to swallow?
Yes, it is a bitter pill. But it is the truth. Google it. Find out about it.
They that are in the flesh cannot please God. That applies to believers as well.

 

[The Biblicist]

Yes, they are acting just like the world, just like the unsaved, just like the unregenerate. They are carnal Christians.
There are many today that walk out of their Baptist churches and live like the world. The world can't tell the difference whether or not they are a Christian.

Yes, that is sad but true in some cases, but in most cases such are a product of easy believism and never have been regenerated just a product of decisionism. A true regenerated person is a "new creature" and old things have passed away (2 Cor. 5).

This is what "New Calvinism" is all about. How does Al Mohler attract young people? He sponsors a "hip hop" dance to get them in. There is nothing spiritual about that. The "New Calvinist" sees nothing wrong with drinking, going into bars, etc. They don't even know what "worldliness" is because they are so caught up in it themselves. They fit the category of "carnal," "worldly" and have a hard time growing close to God as a result of it. The spiritual man and the flesh do not mix. There is a war between the two. When the Christian gives into his flesh nature he is warring against God.
That is why James said he has become the enemy of God. The flesh is at war with God Himself. The flesh cannot please God. But "New Calvinism" strives to please God "in the flesh."
Hard to swallow?
Yes, it is a bitter pill. But it is the truth. Google it. Find out about it.
They that are in the flesh cannot please God. That applies to believers as well.

I certainly do not embrace "new Calvinism" or "old Calvinism" or any kind of Calvinism. I am not a student of Calvin or the Reformers as they are nothing but reformed Roman Catholics to me. However, "new calvinism" are not the only ones who employ the enticement methods, as this is the practice of neo-orthodoxy and easy believism as well.

 

[DHK]

Yes, that is sad but true in some cases, but in most cases such are a product of easy believism and never have been regenerated just a product of decisionism. A true regenerated person is a "new creature" and old things have passed away (2 Cor. 5).

Was this true about the church at Corinth?
They had remained "babes in Christ," now for some time.
In chapter five one "brother" had committed incest, and many of the others were proud of this conquest. They boasted in it. Not even the unsaved world would stoop to such lows.
In chapter eleven the Lord's Table was so disgraced that God's heavy hand of judgment came upon them and some were killed.
In chapter six their flesh reigned so, in that they were taking each other to court.
Almost every chapter Paul rebukes or corrects some doctrine or error that they had been practicing that marked them as carnal--as he described them in chapter three. This is not simply a product of "easy believism," or "never regenerated in the first place," or some other excuse that we can relegate to them. They were carnal Christians. It is very probable that Paul himself had led them to the Lord. I don't believe that Paul practiced any form of "easy believism," and led them in some sort of memorized prayer.

I certainly do not embrace "new Calvinism" or "old Calvinism" or any kind of Calvinism. I am not a student of Calvin or the Reformers as they are nothing but reformed Roman Catholics to me. However, "new calvinism" are not the only ones who employ the enticement methods, as this is the practice of neo-orthodoxy and easy believism as well.

Yes, carnality and worldliness has affected Christianity at every level.

 

[Rippon]

What most of you do is isolate 1Cor.2:14 out of its context and then give it its own unique meaning. It cannot be isolated from the context!
I have given the context more than once. Since you refuse to listen to me, I will quote another author, with context, that you will be able to discern the truth of this verse:

From Walvoord and Zuck.
Note when they say "worldly," the KJV translates "carnal." They were carnal Christians. When 1Cor.2:14 is read in the context of chapter 3 it is obvious that it includes worldly/carnal Christians

You are into the habit of citing folks who destroy your point of view. Walvoord and Zuck say:

2:14 ...the man without the Spirit,an unregenerate man
2:15-16 On the other hand a person possessing the Spirit and guided by Him...

In verse 14 it is certainly speaking of an unsaved individual. How much clearer could it be : without the Spirit is unregenerate as W&Z say.
Then, in verses 15 and 16 Paul is speaking about "the person with the Spirit" someone who has the mind of Christ.

There is a contrast between those described in verse 14 as opposed to those with the Spirit specifically in verse 15. Someone with the mind of Christ is indwelt with the Spirit.

Get it? Without the Spirit in verse 14 means unregenerate. With the Spirit means those who are saved.

Man this is Bible basics. Your position is completely untenable.

 

[DHK]

You are into the habit of citing folks who destroy your point of view. Walvoord and Zuck say:

Yes, I sometimes do cite people that disagree with me.

2:14 ...the man without the Spirit,an unregenerate man
2:15-16 On the other hand a person possessing the Spirit and guided by Him...

In verse 14 it is certainly speaking of an unsaved individual. How much clearer could it be : without the Spirit is unregenerate as W&Z say.
Then, in verses 15 and 16 Paul is speaking about "the person with the Spirit" someone who has the mind of Christ.

There is a contrast between those described in verse 14 as opposed to those with the Spirit specifically in verse 15. Someone with the mind of Christ is indwelt with the Spirit.

There is a contrast. It contrasts those that are "in the flesh" or even acting in the flesh to those that are spiritual. The last two verses speaks of the spiritual Christian which the Corinthian believers were not. Paul is contrasting the Corinthian believer to a spiritual believer. He in no way was suggesting that they were not saved.
In chapter three the first word out of his mouth is "Brethren." He addresses them as his brothers in Christ. They were carnal Christians.

 

[Rippon]

Yes, I sometimes do cite people that disagree with me.

There is a contrast. It contrasts those that are "in the flesh" or even acting in the flesh to those that are spiritual. The last two verses speaks of the spiritual Christian which the Corinthian believers were not. Paul is contrasting the Corinthian believer to a spiritual believer. He in no way was suggesting that they were not saved.
In chapter three the first word out of his mouth is "Brethren." He addresses them as his brothers in Christ. They were carnal Christians.

Without the Spirit means without the Spirit. A believer is indwelt with the Spirit. An unbeliever does not have the Holy Spirit within.

For you to engage in desperate maneuvers in trying to insist that one without the Spirit is really a saved person --is demonstrating that you handle the Word of Truth deceitfully.

Without the Spirit does not have anything to do with quenching the Spirit. The individual in verse 14 never had the Spirit in the first place. Thus there can be no quenching since the Holy Spirit was never present in that person to begin with.