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John Calvin said...

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Luke2427

Active Member
Jerome said:
After Aaron fell for it too, SN said "Any fruitcake knows that [traveling to the sun at night] has been a running joke for years", post 26
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I see.

Yet, it is not without the scope of reason that Calvin or any NUMBER of brilliant men might have said something that ridiculous in their day.


Brilliance in any one area does not mean brilliance in all areas. And just because one is terribly ignorant in one area, it does not mean he is terribly ignorant in all areas.

One can be a blathering idiot in one area and be a pure genius in another. That is often the case in history.

Calvin HAS said some things that are terribly flawed. My point is, so what?

What is one's point when he supplies such quotes?
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
humblethinker said:
"Those who assert that 'the earth moves and turns'...[are] motivated by 'a spirit of bitterness, contradiction, and faultfinding;' possessed by the devil, they aimed 'to pervert the order of nature.'"
- John Calvin, sermon no. 8 on 1st Corinthians, 677, cited in John Calvin: A Sixteenth Century Portrait by William J. Bouwsma (Oxford Univ. Press, 1988), A. 72
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just proves that God blessed Calvin with the spiritual giftings needed to be a teacher and theologian, but not a scientist!
 
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saturneptune

New Member
Yeshua1 said:
just proves that God blessed Calvin with the spiritual giftings needed to be a teacher and theologian, but not a scientist!
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No, you underestimate his scientific abilities. He knew the three elements of a fire, ie, oxygen, a fuel source (wood and Michael Servetus), and a source of heat.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
saturneptune said:
You always bring him up. Is this your idea of a Christ filled life?
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You do know what a crackpot Servitus was though right? & you do know that both the RC's & the Lutherans had warrants out for his arrest for immediate execution, right? And Calvin could have just as easily turned him in to these two groups & they would have gladly & unceremoniously burned him at the stake (the common execution for heretics). It was just Calvinists bad luck that this guy darkened his door rather than the others. Calvin's recourse I guess could have been to have him rot in prison I suppose but he was in fact a heretic who actually provoked his own execution.
 
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Thomas Helwys

New Member
Earth said:
You do know what a crackpot Servitus was though right? & you do know that both the RC's & the Lutherans had warrants out for his arrest for immediate execution, right? And Calvin could have just as easily turned him in to these two groups & they would have gladly & unceremoniously burned him at the stake (the common execution for heretics). It was just Calvinists bad luck that this guy darkened his door rather than the others. Calvin's recourse I guess could have been to have him rot in prison I suppose but he was in fact a heretic who actually provoked his own execution.
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What unmitigated drivel!

Calvin's bad luck?!?! Who got murdered? Certainly not Calvin.

The part I bolded is absolute falsehood. That can be proven, but why should I bother.

It's amazing to me that people can't be objective about those whom they agree with theologically.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Thomas Helwys said:
What unmitigated drivel!

Calvin's bad luck?!?! Who got murdered? Certainly not Calvin.

The part I bolded is absolute falsehood. That can be proven, but why should I bother.

It's amazing to me that people can't be objective about those whom they agree with theologically.
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Well check this out--a quote from Servetus "The Son was sent from the Father in no other way than as one of the Prophets."another; he also called all who believe in the Trinity, ...his words, "true atheists". See to our little hero, Jesus was a man who became the Son of God, not an equal or co-eternal with the Father.

Not to mention his announcement to everyone that the end of the world was at hand, that the Archangel Michael would lead a holy war against the papal and the Genevese Antichrists (must have endeared him to the Catholics) , and that he, who had been named after the Archangel, would fight & die in the war.
 
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saturneptune

New Member
Earth said:
Well check this out--a quote from Servetus "The Son was sent from the Father in no other way than as one of the Prophets."another; he also called all who believe in the Trinity, ...his words, "true atheists". See to our little hero, Jesus was a man who became the Son of God, not an equal or co-eternal with the Father.

Not to mention his announcement to everyone that the end of the world was at hand, that the Archangel Michael would lead a holy war against the papal and the Genevese Antichrists (must have endeared him to the Catholics) , and that he, who had been named after the Archangel, would fight & die in the war.
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Whatever he said did not justify his murder. A heretic is in the eye of the beholder. The term is used regularly around this board referring to other posters. In this country, Calvin is the one who would have been on death row.
 
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saturneptune

New Member
Earth said:
Yea. But wasn't.
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So what redeemable qualities do you see in the life of this "man?" What evidence do you see of the fruits of the Holy Spirit manifested in him? What possible justification is there to have named an entire doctrine, the Doctrine of Grace, after his name? What similarities do you see between his life and the life of Christ? So do you like his ideas about baptism or seperation of church and state better?
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
saturneptune said:
So what redeemable qualities do you see in the life of this "man?" What evidence do you see of the fruits of the Holy Spirit manifested in him? What possible justification is there to have named an entire doctrine, the Doctrine of Grace, after his name? What similarities do you see between his life and the life of Christ? So do you like his ideas about baptism or seperation of church and state better?
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I am not a Calvinist
 
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saturneptune

New Member
Earth said:
I am not a Calvinist
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I have had enough posts with you to know that. Believing in Doctrines of Grace and Sovereignty does not require an admiration of John Calvin. No one alive today chose the name to represent the fact that God is sovereign.
 
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Thomas Helwys

New Member
Earth said:
Well check this out--a quote from Servetus "The Son was sent from the Father in no other way than as one of the Prophets."another; he also called all who believe in the Trinity, ...his words, "true atheists". See to our little hero, Jesus was a man who became the Son of God, not an equal or co-eternal with the Father.

Not to mention his announcement to everyone that the end of the world was at hand, that the Archangel Michael would lead a holy war against the papal and the Genevese Antichrists (must have endeared him to the Catholics) , and that he, who had been named after the Archangel, would fight & die in the war.
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And you think his opinions were justification for his being murdered? Baptists were persecuted, imprisoned, and died for the right of religious liberty for all!
 
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