John Calvin's Lip Service

[Rebel]

The subject of this thread is on the person of John Calvin. Do not go on side trails.

Al Mohler Jr. :

"John Calvin was a multi-faceted personality possessed of manifest gifts. God invested this man with extraordinary intelligence, theological courage, unquestioned tenacity, and a deep love for the church."

"Half a millennium after his birth, Calvin's theological contribution appears more, rather than less, important than it appeared in his own day."

T.H.L. Parker :

"By expounding Scripture as a whole he was forced to deal with the scriptural range of ideas. And, as an honest interpreter, he labored to represent the thoought of the Bible faithfully. He had a horror of those who preached their own ideas in place of the gospel of the Bible : 'When we enter ther pulpit, it is not so that we may bring our own dreams and fancies with us.' "

Al Mohler, what a surprise. A fundamentalist Calvinist who wants to turn the SBC into a 5-point Calvinist denomination. Calvin would have executed him, too, had Mohler lived in Calvin's time.

 

[Robert William]

We are talking about killing another human being here and for what? For being wrong about the Trinity. If Calvin had no idea what Jesus taught concerning loving others then I highly doubt he had any good insight to something more complex like election.

I agree that was very wrong, but remember, when we point we have three fingers pointing back, and Jesus said "he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Man is fallible, that's why it's important to measure everything you read or hear against scripture.

If there is something you have against what Calvin wrote, then please show us a little at a time with scriptural evidence and we can talk about it.

 

[steaver]

I agree that was very wrong, but remember, when we point we have three fingers pointing back, and Jesus said "he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Man is fallible, that's why it's important to measure everything you read or hear against scripture.

If there is something you have against what Calvin wrote, then please show us a little at a time with scriptural evidence and we can talk about it.

Again, we are talking about a murderous attitude (heart). From what I read in the Scripture, the heart is CHANGED when one is born-again. No need to mention Moses or David, these men did not live in the time of regeneration.

 

[DHK]

Again, we are talking about a murderous attitude (heart). From what I read in the Scripture, the heart is CHANGED when one is born-again. No need to mention Moses or David, these men did not live in the time of regeneration.

Calvin was heavily influenced by Augustine, also a persecutor of Christians. Calvin's influence was passed down to the Puritans when the came to America and established their own state-religion in Massachusetts. The Pilgrims did not show much tolerance toward anyone, including the Baptists.
Their hatred of the Quakers is well-known:

The Puritans of the Massachusetts Bay Colony were the most active of the New England persecutors of Quakers, and the persecuting spirit was shared by the Plymouth Colony and the colonies along the Connecticut river.[46] In 1660, one of the most notable victims of the religious intolerance was English Quaker Mary Dyer, who was hanged in Boston for repeatedly defying a Puritan law banning Quakers from the colony.[46] She was one of the four executed Quakers known as the Boston martyrs. In 1661, King Charles II explicitly forbade Massachusetts from executing anyone for professing Quakerism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritan

Anne Hutchinson, born Anne Marbury (1591–1643), was a Puritan spiritual adviser, mother of 15, and important participant in the Antinomian Controversy that shook the infant Massachusetts Bay Colony from 1636 to 1638. Her strong religious convictions were at odds with the established Puritan clergy in the Boston area, and her popularity and charisma helped create a theological schism that threatened to destroy the Puritans' religious experiment in New England. She was eventually tried and convicted, then banished from the colony with many of her supporters.

The moral and religious earnestness that was characteristic of Puritans was combined with the doctrine of predestination inherited from Calvinism to produce a “covenant theology,” a sense of themselves as elect spirits chosen by God to live godly lives both as individuals and as a community.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/484034/Puritanism
Their beliefs were straight from Calvin.

The three "erroneous persons, being strangers," were at once arrested and carried, first to "the ale-house or ordinary," and then forced to attend the meeting of the day. At the close of the meeting they were carried back to the "ordinary."

The next morning they were taken before Mr. Bridges, who made out their mittimus, and sent them to prison at Boston. Having remained a fortnight there, they were brought before the Court of Assistants for trial, which sentenced Dr. Clarke to pay a fine of twenty pounds, Mr. Holmes thirty pounds, and Mr. Crandall five pounds, and in default of payment they were to be publicly whipped. Unknown to Mr. Clarke some one paid his fine, and Mr. Crandall was released on promise that he would appear at the next court. Mr. Holmes was kept in prison until September, when, his fine not having been paid, he was brought out and publicly whipped. Mr. Holmes says, "As the strokes fell upon me I had such a spiritual manifestation of God's presence as the like thereof I never had nor felt, nor can with fleshly tongue express; and the outward pain was so removed from me that indeed I am not able to declare it to you; it was so easy to me that I could well bear it, yea, and in a manner felt it not, although it was grievous, as the spectators said, the man striking with all his strength (yea, spitting in his hand three times, as many affirmed) with a three-corded whip, giving me there with thirty strokes." — (Backus, i. 94. Newton.) Such was the charity of New England Congregationalists of that day. Gov. Joseph Jenks has left on record the following: "Mr. Holmes was whipped thirty stripes, and in such an unmerciful manner that in many days, if not some weeks, he could take no rest, but as he lay upon his knees and elbows, not being able to suffer any part of his body to touch the bed whereon he lay."

Mr. Holmes soon after removed to Newport. In 1652 he was ordained to preach the gospel, and took Dr. Clarke's place as pastor of the Baptist church in Newport. He died in 1682. He left eight children, one of whom, Obadiah, was a judge in New Jersey.

http://www.fbbc.com/messages/biographies/obadiah_holmes.htm
Baptists being persecuted by Calvinists in America.
The list is long, very long.

 

[Robert William]

Holy Moly

Again, we are talking about a murderous attitude (heart). From what I read in the Scripture, the heart is CHANGED when one is born-again. No need to mention Moses or David, these men did not live in the time of regeneration.

LOL, You said, "did not live in the time of regeneration!!!!! "Salvation has always been the same since the fall of Adam. All who were saved in the Old were Spirit filled. Nobody has ever been saved by works.

ALL sins can be forgiven, I don't know how many people were killed by Calvin and I don't agree with any of it, keep in mind us humans are greatly influenced by our environment, especially when we are new Christians or Christians who are not mature.

 

[Reformed]

Al Mohler, what a surprise. A fundamentalist Calvinist who wants to turn the SBC into a 5-point Calvinist denomination. Calvin would have executed him, too, had Mohler lived in Calvin's time.

Calvin never executed anyone. Try as you might, your revisionist history only resonates with sycophants like yourself.

 

[Rippon]

I don't know how many people were killed by Calvin

John Calvin did not kill anyone. That is just one of many lies being regurgitated by the likes of DHK, Steaver, Rebel &Co.

John Calvin was not a tyrant, dictator, or ruler of Geneva.

John Calvin was of the Consistory which regulated eccelesiastical affairs. The most he and other pastors were able to do was excommunicate people. And even that was rejected by the majestrates many times.

John Calvin can be compared to the regenerated Apostle Paul. But he cannot be compared with Paul's (Saul's) earlier life of persecuting Christians. He didn't persecue anyone. It cannot possibly be said that Calvin "began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison."

John Calvin was not ever a member of any of the three governmental Councils for the City State of Geneva. He had no authority to arrest, torture, execute anyone.

John Calvin, Farel and others were kicked out of Geneva in 1538. How can that fact be reconciled with his supposed dictatorial control of Geneva?

A number of John Calvin's requests to the Small Council were rejected out of hand. How can that fact be reconciled with the fiction that he was the one in charge --running everything in Geneva.

John Calvin was never a priest in the Roman Catholic Church. At a young age his father made him go through theological traing for the priesthood. Then, when his father had a squabble with the R.C.C. Calvin studied law.

John Calvin was an evangelist for about three years before coming to Geneva ("for a night's stay").

John Calvin was a wonderful preacher of God's Word. He labored at it constantly. He preached simply and clearly. He was pastoral. He was evangelical. He was prayerful.

John Calvin was beset with numerous illnesses. A lesser man would have quit under the strain of it all. Calvin was a one-man factory. Along with his estimated ten sermons per two weeks, he lectured several times per week. His literary work was monumental for its sheer size, but its depth and continuing influence was greater.

John Calvin was missionary-minded. He and other pastors of Geneva sent out hundreds of men to France alone. They even sent a team to Brazil.

The above are facts. But they will be denied by those who wish to uphold falsehood to maintain their tradition.

Lies are not to be embraced by professing Christians. I have in the last few years on the BB given quotes by dozens of Church scholars and Calvin experts. They come up with drivel from Cloud and company. Their sources compared with mine offer a stark contrast.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I am closing this thread. As I have said before, what happened during John Calvin's residency in Geneva has little to no relevance to the discussion of the theological position popularly known as Calvinism.