Perhaps the churches should not allow sinners as members, and be lilly white pure like the government and media etc?
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John MacArthur - Christ, Not Caesar, is head of the church
- Thread starter rockytopva
- Start date
"We must obey God rather than men": John MacArthur delivers Sunday sermon to full church in defiance of state order
Full house. No masks. No social distancing. Great message. He calls out the real death count in Cali........every........day. It’s the main plank of the dim party. Abortion.
Full house. No masks. No social distancing. Great message. He calls out the real death count in Cali........every........day. It’s the main plank of the dim party. Abortion.
Sinners should not be Church members. The Church is for the saints who have been washed in The Blood.
So anyone that sins is not saved? Ha. I didn't know praying to be saved meant we were instantly perfect and sanctimonious.
I wish some people on here, like you, could read.
TBH, I was confused, also. I was going to ask where these sinner-free churches are. I want to make sure I don't ruin them.
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Saved sinners. Not perfect people. Being made perfect is a work that will not be finished in this life here.
There are sinners and there are saints who sin. Huge difference in the two.
So the preacher's son is a sinner in your book, rather than a sinning saint?
I dont know what he is. I never said he was either. I responded to a specific post with no inference made past the direct response I gave.
What do you call it when you sin?
Sin.
Well since this is an open forum lets look at John MacArthur's action from a preacher I have known and has preaching over 60 years... I'm not to concerned about MacArthur action but about those who follow him, by putting them in danger by tempting God... Elder Joe Holder has not opened the Lord's church he serves since this pandemic started in California and will not until the danger is past and my wife and I will not attend our church, till the danger is passed... Now I know some are going to agree and some are not but brethren here is different viewpoint by Elder Joe Holder... Brother Glen
I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: My God; in him will I trust. During the last six months, as you have faced the fallout of COVID-19, what have you regarded as your shelter, as your refuge? Or have you flailed around, feeling that you had no refuge? Part of our security against this virus rests in the wisdom the Lord has granted His children, to use their minds for wise choices regarding what to do, how to react to the information we have at our access. “But, pastor, that is the problem. I hear contradictory information that leaves me confused. I don’t know what to believe.” No surprise in today’s toxic climate. COVID-19 is a virus. If you contract it, you will face a potentially serious medical problem. What do you normally do when you have medical problems that need more professional attention than rest and a couple Tylenol? You contact your personal physician. Have you talked with your physician about the virus and how he/she instructs you to deal with it? Where did this contradictory information originate? Almost certainly, you heard this contradictory information from political sources and not from the medical community. You may hear occasional different counsel from doctors, but, in the main, you’ll hear simple, common sense counsel from almost all doctors. My wife and I see over half a dozen different doctors between us. As we had mostly tele-video visits with them, we asked all of them about the virus and their suggestions. One urged that we strive to keep our lungs and respiratory system healthy, no surprise, my pulmonary specialist. He and all the others, no exception, gave us otherwise identical advice. They were not confused, and none of them were so out-of-step that they left us confused. Quite the opposite.
We could ignore what our doctors tell us and ignore masks and social distancing, shop till we drop, and say through it all, “I’m not afraid of catching COVID-19. I trust the Lord.” Quite likely, with that lifestyle, you would soon become ill and learn eventually that you caught the virus—or it caught you. Ignoring sound information and choosing to act foolishly in matters where you have a personal choice of action is not a matter of faith. There is no such thing as “Blind faith,” and, when we consciously shut our eyes and minds, ignore the sensibility the Lord has given us, we are not walking by faith and trusting the Lord. We are, in fact, tempting Him. Scripture teaches us not—ever—to tempt the Lord. In fact, God regards this non-faith tempting Him behavior as so alien to Him and to our faith-walk with Him that He literally forbids it in a direct “Thou shalt not” commandment, “Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.” (Deuteronomy 6:16) When we face issues over which we have no control, and we react to them by trusting the Lord and praying for His grace and shelter, that is faith. When we ignore information we have that relates to the problem and the sensibility the Lord gave us, we cannot claim we are acting in faith. To ignore the information we have about a danger in life, or to ignore our basic discernment, claiming we do so in faith, is a near equivalent to telling a child not to touch a hot stove, and then watching the child go directly to the stove and touching it out of childish curiosity. Scripture teaches us to be mature believers, not childish.
Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, And from the noisome pestilence. He shall cover thee with his feathers, And under his wings shalt thou trust: His truth shall be thy shield and buckler. (Psalm 91-2-4 KJV 1900)
Take note. This lesson does not tell us that our faith, making God our steady shelter, will enable us to live our entire lives with no problems. To be delivered from these things means that they remain present in our lives, they trouble us, but making God our shelter gives us a “…way to escape” from them.
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (1 Corinthians 10:13; emphasis added)
The Lord provides us with many ways to escape or to avoid life’s trials. Will we still face them? Absolutely. Must we fall prey to their entrapment? No, not at all. When we face a spiritual snare and walk headlong into it, we have chosen to ignore the Lord’s “Shelter” and the way of escape that He gave us. Again, we must be wise and cautious not to tempt the Lord and claim we are walking in faith.
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Covid is nothing more than an attempt to over turn The Constitution. My doctor is not concerned about Covid. He does not even wear a mask.Well since this is an open forum lets look at John MacArthur's action from a preacher I have known and has preaching over 60 years... I'm not to concerned about MacArthur action but about those who follow him, by putting them in danger by tempting God... Elder Joe Holder has not opened the Lord's church he serves since this pandemic started in California and will not until the danger is past and my wife and I will not attend our church, till the danger is passed... Now I know some are going to agree and some are not but brethren here is different viewpoint by Elder Joe Holder... Brother Glen
I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: My God; in him will I trust. During the last six months, as you have faced the fallout of COVID-19, what have you regarded as your shelter, as your refuge? Or have you flailed around, feeling that you had no refuge? Part of our security against this virus rests in the wisdom the Lord has granted His children, to use their minds for wise choices regarding what to do, how to react to the information we have at our access. “But, pastor, that is the problem. I hear contradictory information that leaves me confused. I don’t know what to believe.” No surprise in today’s toxic climate. COVID-19 is a virus. If you contract it, you will face a potentially serious medical problem. What do you normally do when you have medical problems that need more professional attention than rest and a couple Tylenol? You contact your personal physician. Have you talked with your physician about the virus and how he/she instructs you to deal with it? Where did this contradictory information originate? Almost certainly, you heard this contradictory information from political sources and not from the medical community. You may hear occasional different counsel from doctors, but, in the main, you’ll hear simple, common sense counsel from almost all doctors. My wife and I see over half a dozen different doctors between us. As we had mostly tele-video visits with them, we asked all of them about the virus and their suggestions. One urged that we strive to keep our lungs and respiratory system healthy, no surprise, my pulmonary specialist. He and all the others, no exception, gave us otherwise identical advice. They were not confused, and none of them were so out-of-step that they left us confused. Quite the opposite.
We could ignore what our doctors tell us and ignore masks and social distancing, shop till we drop, and say through it all, “I’m not afraid of catching COVID-19. I trust the Lord.” Quite likely, with that lifestyle, you would soon become ill and learn eventually that you caught the virus—or it caught you. Ignoring sound information and choosing to act foolishly in matters where you have a personal choice of action is not a matter of faith. There is no such thing as “Blind faith,” and, when we consciously shut our eyes and minds, ignore the sensibility the Lord has given us, we are not walking by faith and trusting the Lord. We are, in fact, tempting Him. Scripture teaches us not—ever—to tempt the Lord. In fact, God regards this non-faith tempting Him behavior as so alien to Him and to our faith-walk with Him that He literally forbids it in a direct “Thou shalt not” commandment, “Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.” (Deuteronomy 6:16) When we face issues over which we have no control, and we react to them by trusting the Lord and praying for His grace and shelter, that is faith. When we ignore information we have that relates to the problem and the sensibility the Lord gave us, we cannot claim we are acting in faith. To ignore the information we have about a danger in life, or to ignore our basic discernment, claiming we do so in faith, is a near equivalent to telling a child not to touch a hot stove, and then watching the child go directly to the stove and touching it out of childish curiosity. Scripture teaches us to be mature believers, not childish.
Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, And from the noisome pestilence. He shall cover thee with his feathers, And under his wings shalt thou trust: His truth shall be thy shield and buckler. (Psalm 91-2-4 KJV 1900)
Take note. This lesson does not tell us that our faith, making God our steady shelter, will enable us to live our entire lives with no problems. To be delivered from these things means that they remain present in our lives, they trouble us, but making God our shelter gives us a “…way to escape” from them.
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (1 Corinthians 10:13; emphasis added)
The Lord provides us with many ways to escape or to avoid life’s trials. Will we still face them? Absolutely. Must we fall prey to their entrapment? No, not at all. When we face a spiritual snare and walk headlong into it, we have chosen to ignore the Lord’s “Shelter” and the way of escape that He gave us. Again, we must be wise and cautious not to tempt the Lord and claim we are walking in faith.
Does your doctor give you rheumatiz medicine from a clay bottle marked XXX?
Does your doctor give you rheumatiz medicine from a clay bottle marked XXX?
That's to prevent toothache, too.
Not sure why you offer conflicting glib little replies.
You said this
"There are sinners and there are saints who sin. Huge difference in the two."
You seemed to be suggesting that no sinners were Christians or in churches. That doesn't seem like a defensible position, no wonder we get one word posts.
One would think that anyone that leaves a locked room is putting themselves and others in danger by that standard. Do you have any example or Scriptural verse where God puts conditions on meeting other believers? Something like 'if there is a plague or sickness in the land, do not give hugs or meet other believers'?
Kind of like a reverse Passover? Does your stance include Cosco, work, banks, transit, and etc etc?
. Now I know some are going to agree and some are not but brethren here is different viewpoint by Elder Joe Holder... Brother Glen
I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: My God; in him will I trust. During the last six months, as you have faced the fallout of COVID-19, what have you regarded as your shelter, as your refuge? Or have you flailed around, feeling that you had no refuge? Part of our security against this virus rests in the wisdom the Lord has granted His children, to use their minds for wise choices regarding what to do, how to react to the information we have at our access.
Does the choice of people who choose to meet count also? Or must all people use your choice to be wise?
Yet some doctors protested for certain drugs they say were helpful, yet other doctors say they were harmful.Many doctors signed a paper saying they agreed 'protests' were acceptable. Some countries apparently say masks are medically questionable.
Dutch government will not advise public to wear masks - minister
Since millions of babies are killed each year by the medical profession, I would suggest their advice is not common sense or good in a great many cases, Then there is medical error, one of the leading causes of death...etc.
Polling 8 doctors does not reflect the profession or all advice.
That is not what believers say when they prioritize meeting as the bible commanded. You make it sound like not being in a padded cell day and night means that we want to go hog wild and be irresponsible in every way.
Baloney. Of course there is faith and we do not walk by sight but by faith. In your case there may not be blind...or any other sort of faith.
Looking at the verse right before this I see it says this
"15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth."
We should also consider that maybe God is judging the medical profession and nations?! If that is the case, then the 'behaviour' we would want to avoid would be things like killing babies and forsaking God, not meeting in churches!
Then if we look at the verse after the one you cited, it says this
17 Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.
His statues do not exclude meeting to say the least!
How we react should depend on what the bible says.
There is a lot of info out there, such as that God abhors baby killers, and that He will judge nations that forsake Him. We should be concerned with His advice, not some head of CDC. I doubt the Egyptian physicians recommended putting Lamb blood on their door posts to avoid having their firstborn killed. They may have recommended tossing babies into the river though.
Some people determine basic discernment by using Scripture as the guide.
The context of that verse is not wearing goggles as maybe Dr Fauci or others may recommend, the context is sin and avoiding the temptation that is bad. Not avoiding obeying the bible!
According to your faith be it unto you. To exercise some prudence within reason while still prioritizing God's word is wise. Walking in the council of the wicked (i.e some state that prioritized killing babies and other things as acceptable in the emergency) is a bad bad bad thing[/QUOTE]
Sinners are not Christians. The entire premise that they are is based in a misunderstanding of a statement of Paul. A sinner comes to Christ, is washed in His blood, clothed in His Righteousness, and made holy and righteous before The Father. The former sinner is then a saint. Not by his works but by Christ blood making the sinner righteousness.
For a christian to positionally be a sinner would mean Christ blood could not make him righteous.
Only the saint clothed in the spotless garment will enter Heaven.
You a sinner or a saint?