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John MacArthur is addressing Catholic heresies

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Then whence 'alone'. It's not in the Bible, except where it says that we are NOT saved by faith alone (James 2:14-26, to give the context). You say 'red herring', I say 'foundational to your case'.

Yes, I know.
I'm also aware of the Greek.
I'm aware it doesn't contain the word μόνον (alone)
OK, let's compare and contrast your two immediately following statements:

and
There you go! You just did add something to it: the word 'alone'. And the tragedy is that you can't even see what you're doing there! Yes, he absolutely does, since he made exactly the same error that you just did!!!

Come on, be reasonable: if the Holy Spirit had meant there to be an 'alone' there, He would have put it there, just as He did in James 2:24

I'm intrigued! How do you work that one?


Then please explain how you are 'glorified' and what you understand this term to mean


It refers to the time of the rapture of the Church, or his Second Coming, depending on your viewpoint!

At that event saints will immediantly become transformed to being exactly same type/kind of body that Jesus had when he was raised!
 

Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yeshua, the 'transformation' refers to those physically living Christians caught up in the Rapture/ the parousia; it says nothing about those who have already physically died. Thus my question remains unanswered.

Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God. It means "by faith alone." It does not say that, but it means that. I am not adding anything by telling you the meaning. Let me give you an example by way of illustration.

In the engine of a car (like mine) the fuel is gas (petrol). If any other fuel is used the car will be ruined. It runs on gas alone. The word "alone" is not necessary for me to use every time I tell you: "My car runs on gas (alone); others run on diesel (alone). See the redundancy?
However, if I say my car runs on gas alone the typical Catholic will jump in with all kinds of red herrings and say: No it doesn't. It runs on four wheels, engine oil, transmission oil, four cylinders, etc., etc. These are frivolous red herrings. My engine runs on gas alone! That is the only fuel that it uses.

The engine is comparable to salvation. It will get you to your destination. You can't get there without an engine. The fuel is likened to faith. There is only one engine and that is Christ. There is only one faith. I cannot put water into the engine or it will be destroyed. Only petrol/gas will keep the engine running. If it is mixed with diesel or works it will be destroyed. It is a high performance engine. The fuel is faith. It is that simple. Faith and faith alone saves. It is the only thing that will operate the engine.

But what about the wheels? The wheels will get you to your destination. Your destination is glorification.
And the engine oil, transmission oil, cylinders, brakes, and all the other working parts of the vehicles are those things that make up the Christian walk. They are the things that we must do on a day to day basis as we wind our way through this life on our way to our final destination. They are the working parts of our Christian life. We can't get through life without prayer, reading the Word, witnessing, etc.

We can't even start the Christian life if we don't first put fuel in the engine. That is where it all begins. You need an engine (Christ). You need fuel (faith). Without that you have nothing. The engine is run by gas alone; not gas plus water or gas plus diesel, but gas alone. Did I really have to say "gas alone"?
Poor analogy but let's run with it.

Yes, the fuel is essential for the car to run. But it won't get very far if there is no oil in the engine or water in the radiator: it will overheat and seize up very quickly without these. It will not move at all if it has no wheels: you can floor the throttle and the engine will roar but you won't move an inch.
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Yeshua, the 'transformation' refers to those physically living Christians caught up in the Rapture/ the parousia; it says nothing about those who have already physically died. Thus my question remains unanswered.


Poor analogy but let's run with it.

Yes, the fuel is essential for the car to run. But it won't get very far if there is no oil in the engine or water in the radiator: it will overheat and seize up very quickly without these. It will not move at all if it has no wheels: you can floor the throttle and the engine will roar but you won't move an inch.
It is a poor analogy because I was trying to simplify it. But as I predicted in the above post you would not accept a simplification of the analogy and say that everything else is necessary to make the engine run.

If one has a complete engine he can take it out of the vehicle, put fuel in it and make it run. We can start with that premise. Everything that makes up the engine is therefore the engine.
For the engine to run it needs fuel.
For the engine to travel it needs wheels.
Most basic of "vehicle", perhaps a go-cart. It has an engine, a platform or place for the engine, fuel, and wheels. Nothing complicated. We are right down to the basics here.
An engine needs fuel to run. Put your faith in Christ.
The distance you go is the distance you walk with Christ.
What you are able to do after you begin are your works.
But first you must put your fuel in the engine to be able to do anything.
And that fuel is faith in Christ (the engine). Perhaps revising the illustration that way makes better sense.

Salvation is effected by those who put their faith in Christ. To them are given all the promises of God. They are the ones that look forward to the rapture, the first resurrection or resurrection of believers. They are the ones that will be transformed into the image of Christ, not totally while on earth, but only partially. Total glorification can only take place at that resurrection when the believers receive their glorified bodies. Salvation is a one time act. Salvation happens when the "engine" becomes "alive" because "fuel" is put into it. Of course Christ is always alive, and a person always has potential faith. He must put his faith in Christ in order to access that salvation. Then his journey begins. It is a journey of sanctification. But at that point of salvation, as far as salvation is concerned God has set him apart, made him holy, forgiven all of his sins, purged him, justified him, sanctified him, and given him the gift of eternal life. Therefore he will never fall off those tracks. He will never lose his salvation. It is impossible for the Lord himself is taking care of him.

We all have our troubles on our way. But we are never disowned by the Father.
 

Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
To continue then with the analogy, an engine even if fully fueled up isn't going to go anywhere unless it's in the car; likewise the Christian must be in Christ and remain in Christ per John 15:1-10
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
To continue then with the analogy, an engine even if fully fueled up isn't going to go anywhere unless it's in the car; likewise the Christian must be in Christ and remain in Christ per John 15:1-10
I tell you what. I will just concede in that it was a poor analogy to begin with.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
paul said that thosewho died in Chrsit will be the FIRST to beraised and glorified, THAN we alive shall be caught up and changed!
 
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