John MacArthur takes on some of Arminianism's teachings

[evangelist6589]

You're more than welcome. It's an interesting series of articles.

Just finished reading the Erickson one and I have some thoughts. First is that Zane Hodges view (Free Grace) has some major issues. He seems to take scripture out of context and completely misses what Jesus himself said in Luke 13:5. By his logic and by his own words he has said that all one needs to do is say a prayer, and then they may have no fruit an still make it to heaven. If they want to "inherit heaven" and gain more rewards then they will have fruit. This is a false view as it means that many Buddhists, Muslims, Mormons, homosexuals, and evil people will be in Heaven because many have said the prayer but did not mean one word of it. Refer to the bottom of page 12 right hand side "A person may be born again yet live in ways that are little if at all different from the unbelievers they constitute his society." Faith and Discipleship go hand in hand and Hodges is wrong for communicating otherwise. You know there are many gospel tracts these days that teach "cheap grace" and I have passed out many. However even though their theology is not 100% accurate I believe God will call His true elect to salvation.

Erickson is a scholar but by his statement on page 15 "some may never take the first step" indicates that he does not believe that God calls the converts to salvation but may b teaching a more Arminian view which bases its success on "results" rather than Biblical obedience. WinMan and many Arminian think alike and frown upon more Biblical methods of evangelism that calls sinners to repentance because of the lack of results.

Overall a great article however I lean more towards MacArthur's side. On another note the article prompted a question. On page 11 Erickson says that MacArthur says the sermon on the Mount is not law but gospel and that many Dispensationalists think otherwise and refer to it as law. Thats a new one to me. What does he mean? I thought that David Jeremiah, and Erwin Lutzer also believed the sermon on the mount to be the way of salvation.


John

 

[preacher4truth]

Listened to a great sermon yesterday. I suggest you do as well. Boy was it a great one.

http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/90-270/the-perseverance-of-the-saints-part-1

I whole-heartedly agree with Scripture and John MacArthur's assessment on this. Many Arminians teach this load of bunk -- 'Say a prayer, go to heaven, Jesus can't lie!!!' To top it off some say it doesn't matter what you do afterwards, and that there is no evidence or fruits of salvation necessary. Easy believism/Arminianistic error.

 

[evangelist6589]

Amen! It's sad people will eat up this Lordship Salvation when it is nothing more than works salvation. Belief in Jesus's promise is all that is required for eternal life. I believe it and I am secure....eternally! Johnny Mac is a great man of God but he has got this dead wrong. And that's a hill I'm willing to die on. Praise Jesus, Im saved and nothing can ever change that!
:godisgood:

Hogwash! Saving faith is not just saying a prayer and having no fruit of repentance or discipleship towards Christ. Its not works based to take what Jesus said in Luke 13:5 seriously and thats the call to repentance. Those that are truly saved will have fruit and will not just have an intellectual salvation, but a true salvation. There are many Mormons, Muslims, Athests, and agnostics that said the salvation prayer at one time. Do you think they are saved? They are false converts plain and simple.

Some fruit/proofs of the true Christian

A) Love for God & Truth: Lk 10:27 & hate of evil (Psa 97:10
B) Repentance from sin: 1 Jn 1:8-10
C) Humility: James 4:10
D) Separation from the world 1 Cor 2:12 & a Pursuit of Holiness (2 Cor 5:17)
E) Hunger for God’s Word: 1 Pet 2:1-3
F) Desire & a resolve to worship and fellowship on the Lords day (Heb 10:24-25)
G. Desire to do Biblical evangelism (Mk 16:15)

 

[Iconoclast]

I whole-heartedly agree with Scripture and John MacArthur's assessment on this. Many Arminians teach this load of bunk -- 'Say a prayer, go to heaven, Jesus can't lie!!!' To top it off some say it doesn't matter what you do afterwards, and that there is no evidence or fruits of salvation necessary. Easy believism/Arminianistic error.

Those who deny Jesus Lordship...do not have him as Saviour.:thumbs:

 

[preacher4truth]

Amen! It's sad people will eat up this Lordship Salvation when it is nothing more than works salvation. Belief in Jesus's promise is all that is required for eternal life. I believe it and I am secure....eternally! Johnny Mac is a great man of God but he has got this dead wrong. And that's a hill I'm willing to die on. Praise Jesus, Im saved and nothing can ever change that!
:godisgood:

You draw a caricature and straw man argument of Biblical salvation with your above accusation. Sadly, many in the church do what you've done.

 

[evangelist6589]

I whole-heartedly agree with Scripture and John MacArthur's assessment on this. Many Arminians teach this load of bunk -- 'Say a prayer, go to heaven, Jesus can't lie!!!' To top it off some say it doesn't matter what you do afterwards, and that there is no evidence or fruits of salvation necessary. Easy believism/Arminianistic error.

Dont read what Zane Hodges believes and thats all one needs to do is say a prayer. Those that say a prayer but have not repented from sin lack fellowship with God and rewards in Heaven. What hogwash! By this logic many atheists, Mormons and Muslims will be heaven as they said the prayer when they were kids.

 

[preacher4truth]

Those who deny Jesus Lordship...do not have him as Saviour.:thumbs:

Agreed. The gospel being preached today is a licentious gospel allowing and approving lawless behavior because the person 'prayed a prayer'.

 

[evangelist6589]

Those who deny Jesus Lordship...do not have him as Saviour.:thumbs:

I am not sure I would go that far, but I will say they are in deep disobedience and error. Erwin Lutzer and Charles Stanley both deny the Lordship of Christ doctrine, but both are men of God.

 

[evangelist6589]

Agreed. The gospel being preached today is a licentious gospel allowing and approving lawless behavior because the person 'prayed a prayer'.

Exactly! How many at Greg Lauries events are truly saved? Only God knows. But the 10000000,000000 that have said the prayer at his crusades and that he will boast about many may be false converts.

 

[preacher4truth]

Dont read what Zane Hodges believes and thats all one needs to do is say a prayer. Those that say a prayer but have not repented from sin lack fellowship with God and rewards in Heaven. What hogwash! By this logic many atheists, Mormons and Muslims will be heaven as they said the prayer when they were kids.

Of course. They proof text 'believe' and skip repentance and sanctification. The clientele say when they hear all they have to do is believe 'Is that all I have to do?' 'Yep, and you're guaranteed Heaven!!!' "

Well ain't that grand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then there is also the problem with the notion that started years ago with 'When they believed they repented!'

:sleep:

 

[evangelist6589]

Of course. They proof text 'believe' and skip repentance and sanctification. The clientele say when they hear all they have to do is believe 'Is that all I have to do?' 'Yep, and you're guaranteed Heaven!!!' "

Well ain't that grand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then there is also the problem with the notion that started years ago with 'When they believed they repented!'

:sleep:

Read Luke 13:5. They have missed that verse. Read the first sermon of Jesus when he started to preach. Read the first sermon of John the Baptist.

 

[JonC]

Just finished reading the Erickson one and I have some thoughts. First is that Zane Hodges view (Free Grace) has some major issues. He seems to take scripture out of context and completely misses what Jesus himself said in Luke 13:5. By his logic and by his own words he has said that all one needs to do is say a prayer, and then they may have no fruit an still make it to heaven. If they want to "inherit heaven" and gain more rewards then they will have fruit. This is a false view as it means that many Buddhists, Muslims, Mormons, homosexuals, and evil people will be in Heaven because many have said the prayer but did not mean one word of it. Refer to the bottom of page 12 right hand side "A person may be born again yet live in ways that are little if at all different from the unbelievers they constitute his society." Faith and Discipleship go hand in hand and Hodges is wrong for communicating otherwise. You know there are many gospel tracts these days that teach "cheap grace" and I have passed out many. However even though their theology is not 100% accurate I believe God will call His true elect to salvation.

Erickson is a scholar but by his statement on page 15 "some may never take the first step" indicates that he does not believe that God calls the converts to salvation but may b teaching a more Arminian view which bases its success on "results" rather than Biblical obedience. WinMan and many Arminian think alike and frown upon more Biblical methods of evangelism that calls sinners to repentance because of the lack of results.

Overall a great article however I lean more towards MacArthur's side. On another note the article prompted a question. On page 11 Erickson says that MacArthur says the sermon on the Mount is not law but gospel and that many Dispensationalists think otherwise and refer to it as law. Thats a new one to me. What does he mean? I thought that David Jeremiah, and Erwin Lutzer also believed the sermon on the mount to be the way of salvation.


John

I think you may need to focus less on who may or may not be "Arminian" and look at what each is saying and why they are saying it. (Erickson is moderately Calvinistic, BTW). But yes, the article evaluates both Zane Hodges view and John MacArthur's position and shows strengths and weaknesses of each. (Disagreeing with MacArthur doesn’t equate to agreeing with Zane Hodges just as rejecting Calvinism doesn’t mean accepting Arminian theology).

 

[preacher4truth]

Read Luke 13:5. They have missed that verse. Read the first sermon of Jesus when he started to preach. Read the first sermon of John the Baptist.

They don't miss verses, they miss context and rightly handling of the Word.

I've seen too many preachers assure too many persons that they need to remember the prayer they said at such and such a date -- then the prospect will go without church for several weeks, months or so, and come back to do the whole dance over again.

'Don't let anyone make you doubt you're saved! Including God's Word!'

:type:

 

[DocTrinsoGrace]

I've seen too many preachers assure too many persons that they need to remember the prayer they said at such and such a date -- then the prospect will go without church for several weeks, months or so, and come back to do the whole dance over again.

Amen to that, sir. Gamaliel's counsel (Acts 5:34-39) should give us all pause.

 

[Winman]

Read Luke 13:5. They have missed that verse. Read the first sermon of Jesus when he started to preach. Read the first sermon of John the Baptist.

No one has missed Luke 13:5, but I think you do not understand what Jesus is saying. Look again...

Luk 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Notice in verse 1 it tells us there were persons present with Jesus who told him of certain persons Pilate had put to death.

Next, notice very carefully that Jesus asks these persons who gave him this report, "Suppose ye that these Galilaieans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Is Jesus telling these persons they must stop sinning to be saved? NO, he is telling them that they must realize that they too are sinners or they will likewise perish. No man will come to Jesus for forgiveness unless he first realizes and understands he is a lost sinner.

We see the same thing in verses 4 and 5, Jesus asks them of the 18 men upon whom a tower fell, "Think ye they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

The Jews in particular were under the mistaken view that if something bad or evil happened to someone, this was proof they were very evil and not in God's favor. They also falsely believed that if things went very well for some men, especially if they were rich, this was proof God was very pleased with these persons. This is why the Jews were shocked when Jesus said how hardly will a rich man enter heaven. That is why they asked, "Who then can be saved?".

Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

Do you see how Jesus's disciples were exceedingly amazed when Jesus told them it was almost impossible for a rich man to enter heaven? This is because they falsely believed being rich was an indication of God's favor.

So, Jesus was not telling these persons they must stop sinning to be saved, he was telling them that they must repent of the idea that they are in God's favor simply because nothing bad has happened to them.

These persons were holding a false belief, this is what Jesus told them they must turn or repent from. They must realize they are sinners in need of forgiveness, otherwise they shall perish. No man will come to Jesus for forgiveness unless he first realizes he is lost.

Do you get that?

But if a man must completely stop sinning to be saved, then we are all in big trouble, because no man has ever completely stopped sinning.

Have you completely stopped sinning?

 

[HungryInherit]

I am not sure I would go that far, but I will say they are in deep disobedience and error. Erwin Lutzer and Charles Stanley both deny the Lordship of Christ doctrine, but both are men of God.

So is Zane Hodges, Ryrie, Ironside, Schafer, etc. Hodges doesn't believe you have to say a prayer. If I posted a link to an article or two would you read them at least? I once thought the same things you did. I can't stand the phrases "easy belivism, and cheap grace". It was easy for me to believe I was a wretched sinner and that Jesus Christ died for my sins. And he absolutely is Lord and Savior to me.

 

[Winman]

So is Zane Hodges, Ryrie, Ironside, Schafer, etc. Hodges doesn't believe you have to say a prayer. If I posted a link to an article or two would you read them at least? I once thought the same things you did. I can't stand the phrases "easy belivism, and cheap grace". It was easy for me to believe I was a wretched sinner and that Jesus Christ died for my sins. And he absolutely is Lord and Savior to me.

I don't know why they call it "Easy Believism" when you tell folks all they have to do is trust Jesus to save them, it seems to be the most difficult thing for persons to believe.

There is nothing "easy" about Easy Believism, nearly all men want to add to what Jesus did on the cross, they feel they need to help Jesus out. It is not enough that Jesus died and paid for all our sins, we must stop sinning as well they believe. Good luck with that.

Look how easy Jesus made it for the woman at the well...

Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Did Jesus tell the woman at the well she must stop sinning to be saved? Did Jesus tell her she must leave the man she was living out of wedlock with to be saved?

NO, Jesus told her she must simply ASK, and he would give her living water, which is the Holy Spirit.

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; Seek, and ye shall find; Knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Has anyone ever noticed that if you take the first letters of "ask", "seek", and "knock", that it spells the word ASK?

Ask
Seek
Knock

Wow, amazing, if you take the first letter of these words in Greek they do not spell anything, but if you take the first letter of these words in English they spell ASK. Isn't that something? It is almost as if Jesus knew these scriptures would be written in the English language someday.

Wow, what a chance coincidence.

 

[evangelist6589]

They don't miss verses, they miss context and rightly handling of the Word.

I've seen too many preachers assure too many persons that they need to remember the prayer they said at such and such a date -- then the prospect will go without church for several weeks, months or so, and come back to do the whole dance over again.

'Don't let anyone make you doubt you're saved! Including God's Word!'

:type:

I saw this pattern several times during my time at Bob Jones. People would get saved multiple times! No consistency in their theology. They would go out and sin and walk in the flesh and then think they need to get saved again. Some may have believed in the Fall from Grace lie.

I repented when I was five years old and may have been truly saved at age 17 (only God knows). I have sinned an walked in the flesh at times, but God has preserved me to walk in Holiness. Just because I have walked in the flesh at times did not make me not saved.

 

[evangelist6589]

So is Zane Hodges, Ryrie, Ironside, Schafer, etc. Hodges doesn't believe you have to say a prayer. If I posted a link to an article or two would you read them at least? I once thought the same things you did. I can't stand the phrases "easy belivism, and cheap grace". It was easy for me to believe I was a wretched sinner and that Jesus Christ died for my sins. And he absolutely is Lord and Savior to me.

Post the links

 

[evangelist6589]

I think you may need to focus less on who may or may not be "Arminian" and look at what each is saying and why they are saying it. (Erickson is moderately Calvinistic, BTW). But yes, the article evaluates both Zane Hodges view and John MacArthur's position and shows strengths and weaknesses of each. (Disagreeing with MacArthur doesn’t equate to agreeing with Zane Hodges just as rejecting Calvinism doesn’t mean accepting Arminian theology).

I read the article but my mind mostly fixated on the errors of Hodges and I forgot what he said of MacArthur. Can you kindly summarize what he said of John? Thanks..