John R Rice vs. Jack Hyles

[Jerome]

Hyles, distinguishing between Northern and Southern Fundamentalist Baptists:

Where We Are In Fundamentalism - By Pastor Jack Hyles

"the General Association of Regular Baptists....the Conservative Baptist Association....Both of these groups are splits from the Northern Baptist, or American Baptist Convention....They pulled out mainly over doctrines."

"groups that came out the Southern Baptist Convention....the Baptist Bible Fellowship....the Southwide Baptist Fellowship....When Dr. J. Frank Norris pulled out of the Southern Baptist Convention....The Bible was not [an] issue....They pulled out over mixed bathing being wrong. They pulled out over social drinking being wrong. They pulled out over teaching evolution....the hottest group in America over the last forty years consists of those that pulled out of the Southern Baptist Convention."

 

[Jerome]

Newspaper article from 1975:

"LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) Dr. Jerry Falwell drew a thunderous 'Amen' from 3,000 listeners at the 1975 Southwide Baptist Fellowship Conference with a resounding sermon on what he said were the excesses and decadence of modern society. Among the targets of the 42 year-old television preacher's wrath: 'Tobacco, music, hair, theater, Hollywood, dancing, television, sex, the whole new morality. All of these are examples of carnality,' said Falwell pastor of Thomas Road Baptist Church, Lynchburg, Va. 'We’ve got to be preaching against these sins We’re the only ones out there who can do it” Even evangelist Billy Graham, Falwell said, could use a haircut. 'I watched Billy Graham's televised West Texas Crusade last week,' he said. 'Billy was preaching a good sermon, but I didn't hear a word he said. His hair, down his back—turned up in a curl. Ugh.' Among the other speakers Tuesday were Dr Jack Hyles, pastor of the First Baptist Church in Hammond, Ind., Dr Lee Roberson, pastor of Highland Park Baptist Church, Chattanooga, Tenn., and Dr Al Janney, pastor of the New Testament Baptist Church in Miami, Fla. The three day meeting of Independent Baptist pastors and laymen from across the United States ends today."

 

[John of Japan]

My fondest memories of Dr. Rice was when he would preach at my home church back when I was a teenager. He would have Sunday lunch at our pastor's home and then play with our pastor's children afterwards. Dr. Rice was a humble man and had a compassionate heart. One of my greatest joys as a pastor's wife many years later was to have Mrs. Rice to our church to speak. I've often wondered how Dr. Rice would have handled Jack Hyles' scandal. I have to think he would have stood for what was right and would not have tried to sweep it under the rug.

Great testimony about a great man!

I know what Dr. Rice would have done first about the Jack Hyles' scandal: he would have gone to him privately. I know this because in the "John R. Rice Papers" at Southeastern Baptist Theo. Sem. is a letter exchange between the two men wherein JRR rebukes Jack for some over-the-top, probably false sermon illustrations.

Complicating the matter of the scandal, though, is the fact that JRR's much loved and highly respected son-in-law, Pastor Walt Handford, was involved in first privately confronting Jack (his longtime friend), and then opening up the problem to the public through an open letter. Things escalated quickly from there after Bob Sumner got the story and told it in his paper, The Biblical Evangelist. I believe that JRR would have trusted Dr. Handford and stood with him when the FBC Hammond and HA College people began some very nasty actions against Dr. Handford. You did not mess with John R. Rice's family. He was an old style Texas clan patriarch of our "Rice Clan."

 

[John of Japan]

Newspaper clipping from 1976, a press conference:

"BAPTIST LEADERS PROTEST — Dr. Jerry Falwell, Lynchburg, Va., left, and Dr. Jack Hyles, Hammond, Ind., listen as Dr. John R. Rice, Murfreesboro, Tenn., comments on alledged attempts by the Jimmy Carter campaign organization to keep off the air a syndicated religious program containing criticisms about Carter's Playboy Magazine interview. Falwell said the Carter campaign had been contacting radio station by telegram and telephone asking them not to use the program."

Awesome historical note. Thanks, Jerome.

May I ask for a link to this photo?

 

[Rippon]

You did not mess with John R. Rice's family. He was an old style Texas clan patriarch of our "Rice Clan."

Sounds like the Mafia.

Think how that would sound if someone said :

You don't go messing with the Hodge family.

You don't mess around with the Spurgeon family.

 

[Baptist Believer]

May I ask for a link to this photo?

A clean version of the photo can be found here.

 

[John of Japan]

A clean version of the photo can be found here.

Thank you!

 

[John of Japan]

I don't know if this has been asked before, but how did John R Rice differ with Jack Hyles in theology? I know they had different personalities but which doctrines or standards did they differ? I only know of two, KJV onlyism and storehouse tithing.

To answer the OP more directly, Jack Hyles was a dispensationalist, but JRR was not. JRR occasionally mentioned Scofield positively in his writings, but made it clear a number of times that he was not a dispensationalist. In particular, he objected to the idea that the church started at Pentecost, and believed that OT saints are included in the church.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Was th

To answer the OP more directly, Jack Hyles was a dispensationalist, but JRR was not. JRR occasionally mentioned Scofield positively in his writings, but made it clear a number of times that he was not a dispensationalist. In particular, he objected to the idea that the church started at Pentecost, and believed that OT saints are included in the church.

Was the origin of the church was the only issue JRR had with dispensationalism?

 

[John of Japan]

Was the origin of the church was the only issue JRR had with dispensationalism?

That was the main thing. He occasionally quoted Scofield favorably, but usually not on strictly dispensationalist interpretations. His position was historic premil, and even pretrib, and like many non-dispensationalists, he recognized that there was such a thing as a dispensation, but didn't see the need of making a theology out of that.

His objection to the dispensationalist view of the origin of the church was based, as I noted, on his inclusion of the OT saints in the church, but also on his making soul-winning the priority of Christians. He felt that dispensationalists made too big a deal of the founding of the church, and not enough about how 3,000 people were saved at Pentecost. He was first and foremost a revivalist, and his theology evolved around that.

 

[Truth Seeker]

That was the main thing. He occasionally quoted Scofield favorably, but usually not on strictly dispensationalist interpretations. His position was historic premil, and even pretrib, and like many non-dispensationalists, he recognized that there was such a thing as a dispensation, but didn't see the need of making a theology out of that.

His objection to the dispensationalist view of the origin of the church was based, as I noted, on his inclusion of the OT saints in the church, but also on his making soul-winning the priority of Christians. He felt that dispensationalists made too big a deal of the founding of the church, and not enough about how 3,000 people were saved at Pentecost. He was first and foremost a revivalist, and his theology evolved around that.

Not sure was is a "revivalist". Can you define this term?

 

[TCassidy]

Not sure was is a "revivalist". Can you define this term?

A Preacher whose preaching brings the lost to Christ and challenges the saved to witness to the lost and win them to Christ.

 

[John of Japan]

Not sure was is a "revivalist". Can you define this term?

In the sense in which I used it, a revivalist also promotes revival as well as doing what TCassidy wrote (the elements of revival).

John R. Rice promoted revival through his Sword of the Lord conferences, his books, his radio broadcast, etc.

 

[Yeshua1]

In the sense in which I used it, a revivalist also promotes revival as well as doing what TCassidy wrote (the elements of revival).

John R. Rice promoted revival through his Sword of the Lord conferences, his books, his radio broadcast, etc.

Would you agree that revival happens when there is a Sovereign act of God, working thru the preaching/proclamation of the Word?

 

[John of Japan]

Would you agree that revival happens when there is a Sovereign act of God, working thru the preaching/proclamation of the Word?

No, I disagree with the "sovereign act" view of revival. I follow my grandfather in believing that God sends revival when we meet the conditions for it. I believe that this is borne out by the Scriptures (Acts 2 as the specimen revival in JRR's terminology), but also by revival history. Every great revival has been preceded by seasons of not only private but corporate prayer, and individual repentance.

The greatest revival in Japanese history is called the Taikyo Dendo, or "Great Push Evangelism." At one point, as 700 people were praying together in Tokyo, and God did great things.

 

[Yeshua1]

No, I disagree with the "sovereign act" view of revival. I follow my grandfather in believing that God sends revival when we meet the conditions for it. I believe that this is borne out by the Scriptures (Acts 2 as the specimen revival in JRR's terminology), but also by revival history. Every great revival has been preceded by seasons of not only private but corporate prayer, and individual repentance.

The greatest revival in Japanese history is called the Taikyo Dendo, or "Great Push Evangelism." At one point, as 700 people were praying together in Tokyo, and God did great things.

The Lord Himself is the One that cause the great rivivals, as we do preach and teach and confess Jesus, but the Holy Spirit sovereign moves upon sinners

 

[John of Japan]

The Lord Himself is the One that cause the great rivivals, as we do preach and teach and confess Jesus, but the Holy Spirit sovereign moves upon sinners

The "sovereign act" view of revivals is not provable from Scriptures that are portray actual revivals. For example, the great specimen revival of Pentecost only occurred after days of prayer in the upper room: Acts 1:14--"These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren."

 

[Yeshua1]

The "sovereign act" view of revivals is not provable from Scriptures that are portray actual revivals. For example, the great specimen revival of Pentecost only occurred after days of prayer in the upper room: Acts 1:14--"These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren."

I would think that works in harmony, as there is fervent prayer, but that is due to the lord bringing that upon his Christians, and then he moves into do His saving work.

 

[John of Japan]

I would think that works in harmony, as there is fervent prayer, but that is due to the lord bringing that upon his Christians, and then he moves into do His saving work.

Show me how that works in an account in the Bible of a revival.

 

[Yeshua1]

Show me how that works in an account in the Bible of a revival.

The people of Nineveh, as God preached to them His prophecy of coming future judgement, and the Spirit then moved in biggest revival in history. the word of God was given forth, and the Spirit Himself did His task among them.