Judas partook of the original Lord's supper.

[AustinC]

It doesn't really matter if Judas took part in the Seder meal with Jesus just before Jesus was betrayed.
The people of Israel participated in the Passover and yet only Caleb and Aaron made it into the Promised Land. Many did not believe God in the wilderness, even though they had the cloud an pillar of fire with them.
Many in the church partake of communion and they are still dead in their trespasses and sins. The writer of Hebrews invokes this same imagery for the church.
Hebrews 3:7-19 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness, where your fathers put me to the test and saw my works for forty years. Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart; they have not known my ways.’ As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest.’” Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end. As it is said, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was he provoked for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.

 

[Dave G]

The text of Luke 22:19-21 is pretty straight forward. Jesus addresses "them."

Yes, He does.

And Judas is one of them.

Yes, he was.
Except that there's more information outside of that passage in the Scriptures that is just as dependable and just as inspired as the passage in question, and that describe who Judas really was...

So should we simply stop right there and let one thing that was said ( without investigating further ) tells us everything?
I don't believe so... and per Matthew 4:4 and Luke 4:4, I know so.

Everything that is said about a child of God, about who Christ's sheep are, why people believe and why they do not, and quite a bit more should all come into play.

So Judas is explicitly included in the "for you."

I disagree, and I described why.
If you disagree, then to me, that is fine.

Unrelated rants do not change what is explicitly taught by the text.

It wasn't an unrelated rant.
It was very related, and takes into account what other Scriptures have to say about who Christ's sheep are.

What is explicitly taught in the text of the passage in question, doesn't fully answer the subject,
While careful examination of everything that is said on the subject yields a different overall picture than one passage appears to convey.

 

[37818]

I disagree, and I described why.
If you disagree, then to me, that is fine.

You suppose that to be the case. Yes we disagree. I hold Jesus' sheep are secure. And Judas was not Jesus' sheep at that time nor later.

 

[37818]

Luke 22:19-21, ". . . And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. . . ."

What was said ,by Jesus to "them" was said to "them." To suppose what the text means what it does not say is error.

 

[1689Dave]

Speaking for myself,
I agree that the word "demon" ( fallen angel ) is not used to describe Judas;
but Jesus Himself declared that he was a "devil", and He doesn't do that for those that His Father has given to Him to save per John 17:2.

In that chapter, He prays to the Father and declares that none of the ones given to Him were lost except the "son of perdition",
so that the Scriptures would be fulfilled. <--- Did you miss that? One of the Lord's inner circle was lost for a purpose. To fulfill prophecy.

The Lord also prays to the Father and says that He ( Jesus ) is in them ( not Judas, as I clearly see that he was lost and isn't the subject of John 17:13-26 ), and the Father is in Christ...and that His Father has loved them ( the ones He is praying for ) as His Father has loved His Son.

Question:
Do you believe that the Lord would allow someone He loves to be used to fulfill prophecy, and then refer to them as the "son of damnation"?
I don't.

Respectfully, I don't think that you're understanding something...

Satan did not "suggest" that Judas betray the Lord Jesus, Satan sponsored it through Judas.
Just as the Lord works through His children ( Philippians 2:13, 1 Corinthians 12:6, 1 Corinthians 15:10, ), Satan works through his:

" Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped [it]. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave [it] to Judas Iscariot, [the son] of Simon.
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly." ( John 13:27 ).

" Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve." ( Luke 22:3 ).

You do understand what possession is, and what that does to someone, don't you?
It makes them the host of a demon, who does things through that person.

Please see Mark 5:1-20, for example.

Incidentally, Michael Heiser has some excellent studies on the spiritual realm. He lays out the case that "devils" or 'demons" are in fact the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim that perished in the flood. They were not human nor were they angelic but in a class of their own that now roam the earth.

“Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.” Luke 22:3 (KJV 1900)


The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible Paperback – October 16, 2019
by Michael S. Heiser (Author)

 

[1689Dave]

Limited atonement means salvation by grace. Universal atonement means salvation by works. Here’s why.

Limited atonement justifies sinners who cannot save themselves. Resulting in a way for God to remain just and save them instead of sending them to hell.

Universal atonement does not save anyone. It only makes it possible for the person to save themselves through obedience to a law invented from the gospel.

Law only works with free will. So they imagine the gospel to be law and free will the way to keep and save themselves.

Limited atonement = gospel of grace apart from works. “Whoever believes (as a trait of the Holy Spirit) has eternal life”. Universal atonement = gospel changed into law dependent on obedience or works. “Whoever chooses to believe earns eternal life”.

 

[1689Dave]

Luke 22:19-21, ". . . And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. . . ."

Actually, Satan partook of the Lord's supper. This happened before that time. “Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.” Luke 22:3 (KJV 1900)

 

[37818]

The importance of lost Judas partaking of the remembrance demonstrates explicitly Jesus payment for sin is the genuine offer to all. The srawman argument of universalism is a failed attempt to discredit the truth of Christ's redemption for all. To be Lord of all either as Judge or Savior. Romans 14:9, Acts of the Apostles 10:42, 2 Corinthians 5:10-14.

 

[1689Dave]

The importance of lost Judas partaking of the remembrance demonstrates explicitly Jesus payment for sin is the genuine offer to all. The srawman argument of universalism is a failed attempt to discredit the truth of Christ's redemption for all. To be Lord of all either as Judge or Savior. Romans 14:9, Acts of the Apostles 10:42, 2 Corinthians 5:10-14.

The gospel is not offered. It is preached (announced). Announcing that whoever believes is saved.

 

[Aaron]

Luke 22:19-21, ". . . And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. . . ."

He was also baptized by John. So?

 

[37818]

He was also baptized by John. So?

Neither the immersion nor the atonement merits anyone salvation. [Not universalism.] Salvation is solely a gift paid for by the atonement. Must be received as that gift. Romans 6:23, Ephesians 2:8. Romans 8:34, 1 Timothy 2:4-6. One does not even merit it by eating the Lord's Supper, Luke 22:19-21.

 

[Aaron]

Neither the immersion nor the atonement merits anyone salvation. [Not universalism.] Salvation is solely a gift paid for by the atonement. Must be received as that gift. Romans 6:23, Ephesians 2:8. Romans 8:34, 1 Timothy 2:4-6. One does not even merit it by eating the Lord's Supper, Luke 22:19-21.

So, the efficatious work is not Christ's, but yours.

 

[37818]

So, the efficatious work is not Christ's, but yours.

You are the one claiming that.

Neither the immersion nor the atonement merits anyone salvation. [Not universalism.] Salvation is solely a gift paid for by the atonement. Must be received as that gift. Romans 6:23, Ephesians 2:8. Romans 8:34, 1 Timothy 2:4-6. One does not even merit it by eating the Lord's Supper, Luke 22:19-21.

Salvation is not obtained by doing anything except accepting the gift in believing God for it. Not by the water immersion. Not by eating the remembrance. Not by any kind of work.

 

[AustinC]

Salvation is not obtained by doing anything except accepting the gift in believing God for it. Not by the water immersion. Not by eating the remembrance. Not by any kind of work.

Why did you add an exception? Is there a passage in the Bible that tells us we must "accept the gift?"
That seems to be a philosophical addition and a legal requirement that negates your first statement, "salvation is not obtained by doing anything."

 

[1689Dave]

Luke 22:19-21, ". . . And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. . . ."

“The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.” Revelation 17:8 (KJV 1900)

Did Jesus die for those not written in the book of life? How about the Pharisees that God blinded so they could not believe? Why did Jesus speak in parables? So they could not understand and be saved if he died for them? Why did he not pray for the world, but only the disciples the Father gave to Him?

 

[1689Dave]

You are the one claiming that.

Salvation is not obtained by doing anything except accepting the gift in believing God for it. Not by the water immersion. Not by eating the remembrance. Not by any kind of work.

But you save yourself by "accepting".

 

[Aaron]

You are the one claiming that.

No, you are.

Neither the immersion nor the atonement merits anyone salvation.

Salvation is not obtained by doing anything except accepting the gift in believing God for it.

There ya go. The efficacious act is mine. Not Christ's. That's what you are saying.

 

[37818]

No, you are.

I never made any claims of anyone being saved to be saved by merit.

Neither the immersion nor the atonement merits anyone salvation. [Not universalism.]

Salvation is solely a gift paid for by the atonement. Must be received as that gift. Romans 6:23, Ephesians 2:8. Romans 8:34, 1 Timothy 2:4-6.

There ya go. The efficacious act is mine. Not Christ's. That's what you are saying.

Those are your false accusations. What does that make you?

 

[Aaron]

I never made any claims of anyone being saved to be saved by merit.



Those are your false accusations. What does that make you?

They aren't false. You said the Atonement does not merit salvation for anyone.

 

[37818]

They aren't false. You said the Atonement does not merit salvation for anyone.

So you think by the Atonement allows persons to merit their salvation.

Salvation is a gift not merited by any one. The gift is paid for by the Atonement. We are done here.