Judge Blocks New York From Turning Over Trump Tax Returns To Congress

[Baptist Believer]

Why don't the House Democrats just look into whatever it is that they are so worried about since it does not deal with his income?

It deals directly with his income. Part of the concern is the emoluments clause of the Constitution. They are sworn, like the President, to uphold the Constitution. Under the Constitution, they have oversight responsibility in this area.

So you think that Jesus was not King of the Jews and that Joseph and Mary were not descendants of King David, too? And you think that The Holy Family were illegal aliens in Egypt? That makes you a cultural Marxist.

SNIP I have no idea where you are getting these bizarre ideas. For the record, I'll humor you with answer to your strange questions:

So you think that Jesus was not King of the Jews...

No, I do not think that. Jesus is the Second Person of the Triune God and He inaugurated easy access into the Kingdom of God (aka Kingdom of Heaven in Matthew) for any who will enter into His life. He is the rightful King of all the created order, and that includes the physical descendants of Abraham. Do you deny that fact?

So you think that ... Joseph and Mary were not descendants of King David, too?

No, I do not think that. The genealogies presented in the New Testament gospels of Matthew and Luke show that Jesus, the child of Joseph and Mary, was a descendant of David. I can't say with certain authority that the genealogy presented in Matthew is through the line of Joseph, and that the genealogy presented in Luke is of Mary, but that is the common view. Another is that both genealogies are from Joseph's line, but we are either missing an element that helps us reconcile the two, or perhaps they are Joseph's maternal and paternal lines. I'm not particularly concerned about the genealogies, but my emphasis has always been on the Divine paternity of Jesus.

And you think that The Holy Family were illegal aliens in Egypt?

No. The "illegal alien" designation is a relatively modern invention, probably originating with the advent of the nation-state beginning with the treaty at the Peace of Westphalia that ended most of the religious wars of Europe. What you may remember me saying is that Mary, Joseph, and Jesus were refugees from an oppressive government (Herod) that was trying to kill Jesus. Do you deny that fact?

That makes you a cultural Marxist.

This is a complete non sequitur, but it fits right in with your conspiratorial beliefs. Let's unpack your assertion:

Wikipedia reports:

In contemporary usage, the term Cultural Marxism is a right-wing, antisemitic conspiracy theory according to which the Frankfurt School is part of a continual academic and intellectual culture war to systematically undermine and destroy Western culture and social traditions. As articulated in the 1990s, the conspiracy means to replace traditionalist conservatism and Christianity with the counterculture of the 1960s to promote social changes such as racial multiculturalism, multi-party progressive politics, acceptance of LGBT rights, and political correctness in language.
​

I am not a "cultural Marxist" or any other kind of Marxist. I reject the philosophy and premises of Karl Marx. I have no particular interest in 'systematically undermining and destroying Western culture and social traditions.' I am rather fond of much of Western culture, but my higher allegiance is to the Kingdom of God. I have no particular interest in either preserving or replacing "traditional conservatism" with the counterculture of the 1960s, including all of the elements described above. I am quite fond of conservative Christianity, but not so fond of it that I will advocate it over the teachings of Jesus. I don't style my use of language by political correctness, but instead along the lines of truth, without being unnecessarily offensive. I don't make any bones about my convictions.

So your assertion that I am a "cultural Marxist" is completely false and misguided.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I think you entirely misread Trump supporters.

I don't think I misread them. Members of my own family, much of my social circle, a fair amount of people at church, and many fellow employees at work are devoted Trump supporters. I'm not in an ivory tower or associating only with people who think the way I do.

After eight years of the extremely racist and divisive Kenyan-Indonesian Muslim atheist doing his worst to run the country into the ground, and three years of the corrupt Deep State-MSM-Dem-RINO-NeverTrumper coalition trying their worst to undermine an American president who is trying to fix that mess as best he can—and doing a rather good job of improving America and the lives of Americans in general—there just is not much that would make them side with the godless progressive socialist swamp creatures who consider themselves above and beyond the law and essentially hate Trump for wanting to Make America Great Again.

I disagree with almost everything in this paragraph, yet none of it surprises me since this is exactly what I think a large number of Trump supporters believe. I am convinced, through facts, life experience, and participating in this part of history, of very different things. I believe much of the difference is in the way we approach what claims to be news and facts. I also don't spend much time listening to talk radio or the talking heads on television. I read newspapers and various news sites, fact-checking anything that seems difficult to believe.

I also have an advantage in that I didn't care for Obama, but I also didn't hate him. I followed a lot of the conspiracy theories (secret Muslim, birther nonsense, etc) and did my own fact-checking. I also know lots of people who are concerned about Trump. Relatively few actually hate him, despite the shrillness of the accusations. Most of the anti-Trump people I know oppose him on the basis of his astounding dishonesty from everything to inauguration crowd size to today's news. It is an astounding display of personal corruption. We are also concerned about his love of cruelty toward his political opposition, or anyone who falls into disfavor. That shows a warped heart - a sociopath. But most of all we are concerned that people who bear the name of Christ are afraid to say a word of critique about his wrongdoings, even when the man's character is the opposite of the virtues expressed in Christ's teachings.

I don't think I'm misjudging anything.

 

[church mouse guy]

Gee, Baptist Believer, you are so good to let deplorables and irredeemables have a say. Republicans, too.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Gee, Baptist Believer, you are so good to let deplorables and irredeemables have a say.

Those are YOUR words and categories, not mine. I have never used "deplorable" when describing persons, and I can't even think of a situation where I would call someone "irredeemable." That is assuming a limitation on God's grace.

Of course, I know what you are doing. You are throwing words at me in hopes that others will think you are referencing my viewpoints.

That is just as holy of a statement as if I were to ask you, "Did you cheat on your spouse on March 26th, 2018, in Sioux City, Iowa?" Those words have no relevance to you, but by asking the question, I am casting suspicion on you. In church life, it might be asked, "Have you rejected Jesus yet?" The intent of the question is evil.

Stop doing evil.

Republicans, too.

I talk with Republicans all time time. I considered myself in the party until 2016. I reason with people who have different views than I do. I spent much of my time listening and asking questions. The conspiracies and false beliefs often come crashing down when one carefully and patiently asks relevant questions. It is the same methods of discussion that I use with friends and associates on the extreme left. It is extremely effective because I almost always learn something I didn't know before and the one I'm speaking with will usually have the same experience. It is a way of reasoning together.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I don't think I misread them. Members of my own family, much of my social circle, a fair amount of people at church, and many fellow employees at work are devoted Trump supporters. I'm not in an ivory tower or associating only with people who think the way I do.


I disagree with almost everything in this paragraph, yet none of it surprises me since this is exactly what I think a large number of Trump supporters believe. I am convinced, through facts, life experience, and participating in this part of history, of very different things. I believe much of the difference is in the way we approach what claims to be news and facts. I also don't spend much time listening to talk radio or the talking heads on television. I read newspapers and various news sites, fact-checking anything that seems difficult to believe.

I also have an advantage in that I didn't care for Obama, but I also didn't hate him. I followed a lot of the conspiracy theories (secret Muslim, birther nonsense, etc) and did my own fact-checking. I also know lots of people who are concerned about Trump. Relatively few actually hate him, despite the shrillness of the accusations. Most of the anti-Trump people I know oppose him on the basis of his astounding dishonesty from everything to inauguration crowd size to today's news. It is an astounding display of personal corruption. We are also concerned about his love of cruelty toward his political opposition, or anyone who falls into disfavor. That shows a warped heart - a sociopath. But most of all we are concerned that people who bear the name of Christ are afraid to say a word of critique about his wrongdoings, even when the man's character is the opposite of the virtues expressed in Christ's teachings.

I don't think I'm misjudging anything.

My own perceptions come primarily from watching actual proceedings, reading documents, and what passes for news, facts, and fact checking, as well as hearing commentary on various sides, then weighing all based on given life experience. I don't trust any of it completely.

For the record, I don't buy Trump's hyperbole, but recognize it for what it is. For example, I do not take his having nothing to do with Russia literally. But I see no shady dealings there, unlike with Hillary, the DNC, and the Deep State—the dossier is damning enough in their case, but there are other instances related just to abuses in office.

That Hillary was enabled to be a candidate via a non-investigation under Obama beforehand should give pause to every patriot. The ongoing witch hunt against Trump after an investigation and subsequent report in Mueller's name is a disgrace that should never have been tolerated. To opine that the DNC-Deep State-connected congress should now wield such powerful oversight in light of their lies and subterfuge is incredible.

Also for the record, I don't hear people say they hate Obama, but they rightly detest the direction he took the country, and the election of Trump is a direct result of that. The more he can undo Obama's "legacy" the better. Whatever faults Trump may have pale in comparison to Obama's and the DNC-Deep State machine.

That's why your talking points come across as hypocritical and petty and thus mean so little.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Most of the anti-Trump people I know oppose him on the basis of his astounding dishonesty from everything to inauguration crowd size to today's news. It is an astounding display of personal corruption. We are also concerned about his love of cruelty toward his political opposition, or anyone who falls into disfavor. That shows a warped heart - a sociopath. But most of all we are concerned that people who bear the name of Christ are afraid to say a word of critique about his wrongdoings, even when the man's character is the opposite of the virtues expressed in Christ's teachings.

To clarify, I would love to have a president who is a paragon of virtue. But when has that ever been? Certainly none in recent years. After the abominations of Obama, Trump will do for now. Again, his faults pale in comparison to those of his predecessor and his past and current opponents. And the strides he currently seems to be making I find encouraging.

 

[church mouse guy]

I agree that no one hates Obama. No one even talks about him. He is a boring man. Some say that he was a good speaker. He has a lot of money now and lives the high life, which is what he likes.

Truman was well hated in his day and people joked about him but after he retired he was forgotten. Democrats are just something that one has to live through.

Trump is much more interesting and productive than Obama plus Trump is funny. Truman was funny but Obama is not funny.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Gee, Baptist Believer, you are so good to let deplorables and irredeemables have a say. Republicans, too.

Those are YOUR words and categories, not mine. I have never used "deplorable" when describing persons, and I can't even think of a situation where I would call someone "irredeemable." That is assuming a limitation on God's grace. Of course, I know what you are doing. You are throwing words at me in hopes that others will think you are referencing my viewpoints.

BB, you should know as well as anyone that this really is not true. Those words—“deplorables” and “irredeemables”—are not from CMG at all, but from Hillary. To be honest, your assessment of using them should have been directed solely at her.

You speak of character, but Hillary is one of the worst in politics, if not the worst, displaying such cold-blooded arrogance and utter contempt that megalomania seems an apt, though understated assessment. This is a huge reason Trump seemed the better candidate by far. I thank God he, rather than she, succeeded Obama.

 

[777]

Well, BB voted for Hillary over Trump, must be that he cares so much about corruption. But this thread isn't about him, it's about some unconstitutional law requiring Trump hand over his tax returns. Again, a state can not give its own conditions in a federal election, why state imposed term limits were struck down decades ago. To do something like this, you need an amendment and good luck with that.

I really don't care if the left think Trump "lied" to them over this. they are fishing and they know it. I don't think there's anything there, there would be some liberal IIRS agent leaking them a long time ago if they were damaging at all. Hope Trump NEVER releases these returns while he's in office, can't appease the unaccountable left. Many of them still think Trump has a special form to report bribes from Putin or something, cry away.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I agree that no one hates Obama. No one even talks about him. He is a boring man. Some say that he was a good speaker. He has a lot of money now and lives the high life, which is what he likes.

Truman was well hated in his day and people joked about him but after he retired he was forgotten. Democrats are just something that one has to live through.

Trump is much more interesting and productive than Obama plus Trump is funny. Truman was funny but Obama is not funny.

You didn’t notice the ears?

 

[Baptist Believer]

BB, you should know as well as anyone that this really is not true. Those words—“deplorables” and “irredeemables”—are not from CMG at all, but from Hillary.

He used those words in Post #43, trying to present me at someone who holds that opinion. So I'm not wrong at all.

Yes, I am aware that Ms. Clinton is being referenced, but CMG is MAKING the reference in order to attack me.

To be honest, your assessment of using them should have been directed solely at her.

Is that how this game is played?

Then maybe you better get back to grabbing women "by the *****."

Oh? You don't agree with that statement of President Trump's and you would never say such a thing? Well then, you should direct your concerns to the President, not me.

You speak of character, but Hillary is one of the worst in politics, if not the worst, displaying such cold-blooded arrogance and utter contempt that megalomania seems an apt, though understated assessment.

I'm sorry, why are you still talking about Hillary Clinton? The election was in 2016 and we are in 2019. If Ms. Clinton had been elected, I would be calling her out for character issues as well.

I can understand why Christians voted for Donald Trump back in 2016, but what I can't understand is what Christians are afraid to actually hold the President morally accountable for his words and actions since the election. It is either cowardice, moral blindness, or agreement with lies, cruelty, namecalling, etc. -- actions which are the exact opposite of the Sermon on the Mount.

This is a huge reason Trump seemed the better candidate by far. I thank God he, rather than she, succeeded Obama.

Again, why are you still mentally and morally in 2016? You need to catch up.

 

[Revmitchell]

Trump's twitter posts and rhetoric are minimal. What he is doing other wise abortion, jobs, manufacturing, American principles, etc far outweigh his words which mean very little. Those who like to make a big deal out of them really don't like what he is doing and are just afraid to be open about it.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Well, BB voted for Hillary over Trump, must be that he cares so much about corruption.

That's a misrepresentation.

I voted for the person most likely to defeat Trump. I voted AGAINST Trump, not for Ms. Clinton. And yes, I do care about corruption. Since Ms. Clinton appeared most likely to win, I voted straight-ticket Republican for everyone else to be a counterbalance against her. I assumed no matter who won, Clinton or Trump would likely get impeached and removed from office before the end of their first term. I wanted to do what I could to ensure that Congress would hold the President accountable. Of course, I lost that bet -- Mr. Trump became President and the Republicans are too cowardly to hold him accountable.

Of course, I have written all of this before on several occasions, but I know that presenting my position fairly doesn't serve your purposes to try to discredit me.

 

[Revmitchell]

That's a misrepresentation.

I voted for the person most likely to defeat Trump. I voted AGAINST Trump, not for Ms. Clinton. And yes, I do care about corruption. Since Ms. Clinton appeared most likely to win, I voted straight-ticket Republican for everyone else to be a counterbalance against her. I assumed no matter who won, Clinton or Trump would likely get impeached and removed from office before the end of their first term. I wanted to do what I could to ensure that Congress would hold the President accountable. Of course, I lost that bet -- Mr. Trump became President and the Republicans are too cowardly to hold him accountable.

Of course, I have written all of this before on several occasions, but I know that presenting my position fairly doesn't serve your purposes to try to discredit me.

You discredit yourself. What a bunch of gymnastics you make to explain voting for such an evil woman.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Trump's twitter posts and rhetoric are minimal. What he is doing other wise abortion, jobs, manufacturing, American principles, etc far outweigh his words which mean very little. Those who like to make a big deal out of them really don't like what he is doing and are just afraid to be open about it.

Apparently you are not keeping track of the reasons why people oppose Trump. For starters, I opposed his overturning of the relationships with long-time allies that date back to the end of World War II and beyond, his open admiration of despots, his denial of Putin's aggressions -- including the attacks on our elections, his denial of North Korea's provocative missile tests, his lobbying for Russian interests, including bringing them back into the G-7, his dishonest claims about the success of his efforts to bring manufacturing back to the US -- failing to mention that few manufacturing jobs will actually be created because of advances in automation, his extremely foolish tariffs that have destroyed markets for farmers and significantly raises prices for American consumers -- along with his socialistic scheme to pay farmers for their losses (although he's doing a poor job of actually paying them), his attacks on free speech and the press, his nomination of massively unqualified people -- as well as corrupt people -- to positions of authority, and his denial of fundamental American principles in terms of governance, compassion, promotion of democracy and liberty abroad, confidence in our elections, the gutting of our national security agencies, and the rejections of basic human rights for all people.

 

[Baptist Believer]

You discredit yourself. What a bunch of gymnastics you make to explain voting for such an evil woman.

You've long discredited yourself with your actions around here and your promotion of falsehoods, so I'm not worried about your opinion or rhetoric.

 

[Revmitchell]

Apparently you are not keeping track of the reasons why people oppose Trump. For starters, I opposed his overturning of the relationships with long-time allies that date back to the end of World War II and beyond, his open admiration of despots, his denial of Putin's aggressions -- including the attacks on our elections, his denial of North Korea's provocative missile tests, his lobbying for Russian interests, including bringing them back into the G-7, his dishonest claims about the success of his efforts to bring manufacturing back to the US -- failing to mention that few manufacturing jobs will actually be created because of advances in automation, his extremely foolish tariffs that have destroyed markets for farmers and significantly raises prices for American consumers -- along with his socialistic scheme to pay farmers for their losses (although he's doing a poor job of actually paying them), his attacks on free speech and the press, his nomination of massively unqualified people -- as well as corrupt people -- to positions of authority, and his denial of fundamental American principles in terms of governance, compassion, promotion of democracy and liberty abroad, confidence in our elections, the gutting of our national security agencies, and the rejections of basic human rights for all people.

None of that is true.

 

[Revmitchell]

You've long discredited yourself with your actions around here and your promotion of falsehoods, so I'm not worried about your opinion or rhetoric.

Yea well coming from you........

 

[Wingman68]

That's a misrepresentation.

I voted for the person most likely to defeat Trump. I voted AGAINST Trump, not for Ms. Clinton. And yes, I do care about corruption. Since Ms. Clinton appeared most likely to win, I voted straight-ticket Republican for everyone else to be a counterbalance against her. I assumed no matter who won, Clinton or Trump would likely get impeached and removed from office before the end of their first term. I wanted to do what I could to ensure that Congress would hold the President accountable. Of course, I lost that bet -- Mr. Trump became President and the Republicans are too cowardly to hold him accountable.

Of course, I have written all of this before on several occasions, but I know that presenting my position fairly doesn't serve your purposes to try to discredit me.

YOU VOTED FOR THIS EVIL. Own it. You also voted for abortion, gay marriage, open borders, big government, & whatever other freedoms the dems dream of taking from us. You try to make it sound like you voted morally. What a joke, even for you.

In 1975 a 12 yr old girl was raped by a 42 yr old man. In court, Hillary told the judge that the girl made up the rape story because she enjoyed fantacizing about older men........Afterward, Hillary says, “yeah, I got him off. So what? Who cares? We got the evidence thrown out, so he walked.” Hillary laughs, “I mean sure, we knew he did it, but it didn’t matter.”
Sickly reminiscent of her words following Bengazi. “What difference, at this point, does it make?”
Soulless woman. BB’s moral choice. How can you ever expect to be taken seriously???

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

He used those words in Post #43, trying to present me at someone who holds that opinion. So I'm not wrong at all. Yes, I am aware that Ms. Clinton is being referenced, but CMG is MAKING the reference in order to attack me. Is that how this game is played? Then maybe you better get back to grabbing women "by the *****." Oh? You don't agree with that statement of President Trump's and you would never say such a thing? Well then, you should direct your concerns to the President, not me.

I'm sorry, why are you still talking about Hillary Clinton? The election was in 2016 and we are in 2019. If Ms. Clinton had been elected, I would be calling her out for character issues as well.

I can understand why Christians voted for Donald Trump back in 2016, but what I can't understand is what Christians are afraid to actually hold the President morally accountable for his words and actions since the election. It is either cowardice, moral blindness, or agreement with lies, cruelty, namecalling, etc. -- actions which are the exact opposite of the Sermon on the Mount.

Again, why are you still mentally and morally in 2016? You need to catch up.

From start to finish you seem to be in a feeling offended mode. The assessments were something Hillary will never live down, not that she cares. As progressive leftists, she, Bill, the Obamas, and even Carter, are all still active political menaces, and may be till they die. Obviously, being glad Trump is now in office instead of Hillary is about as current as you can get. I suspect this will carry over to his next term, which would put it fairly into the future.

The reason you cannot understand the general attitude is that you don't discern the incessant deep state and Dem media attacks against Trump and even his supporters. Of course he occasionally comes back at them with some flare and not a little force and this apparently offends your sensibilities, but siding with the extremely morally corrupt fake news bullies does you no credit. When you convince them to cease and desist, we can revisit whatever it is you think is so bad about Trump. Until then, it just sounds like sour grapes, hypocritical whining.