Judgment Seat of Christ

[Iconoclast]

Do you believe in a general resurrection and that both saints and sinners stand before Christ in one final judgement, Brother Icon?

Hello Con 1,

Yes...like in jn 5...however in rev we see the unsaved are judged according to their works so they perish....

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
We were judged at the cross in Jesus.....he taking our punishment and turning away Divine wrath from us....

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 

[Iconoclast]

Do you believe in a general resurrection and that both saints and sinners stand before Christ in one final judgement, Brother Icon?

From A Baptist catechism with Commentary...by WR Downing;

Quest. 171: What is the resurrection unto judgment?
Ans: The resurrection unto judgment is the resurrection of the
wicked to final judgment according to their works and eternal
punishment for their sins.
Dan. 12:2. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall
awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting
contempt.
Jn. 5:28–29. 28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which
all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that
have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Rom. 2:5–6. 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest
up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the
righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according
to his deeds.
Rev. 20:12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;
and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is
the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which
were written in the books, according to their works.
See also: Psa. 9:16–17; Isa. 45:23; Matt. 5:22; 8:12; 12:36–37;
13:36–42, 49–50; 18:9; 22:13; 24:51; 25:31–46, 46; Lk. 12:4–5; Jn.
12:48; Acts 17:30–31; 24:24–25; Rom. 2:3, 8–9; Phil. 2:9–11; 1
Thess. 1:2–3; 2 Thess. 1:7–9; Heb. 6:2; 12:25–29; 2 Pet. 2:9; Jude 7,
13; Rev. 14:9–11; 20:11–15; 21:8.
COMMENTARY
Death does not end it all. The conscious torments of hell immediately
follow the death of the ungodly as certainly as the conscious, blessed presence
of the Lord follows the death of the believer (Matt. 22:31–32; Lk. 16:22–25; 2
Cor. 5:6–8). The “resurrection of damnation” and final judgment then
necessarily follow (Jn. 5:28–29; Heb. 9:27). The unrighteous or unconverted
shall be raised from the dead to stand before the eternal Son of God to be finally and fully judged.

 

[Iconoclast]

pt2

The justice of God and his righteous character necessitate a final Day of
Judgment for the ungodly and impenitent (Gen. 18:25; Heb. 9:28). The nature
of man as an intelligent, morally–responsible being, created in God’s image,
demands it (Eccl. 3:16–17).
Evil is not always punished nor is good always rewarded in this life, and thus there is a sense of inequity about this reality
inherent among mankind—although most men would not think in terms of a final Day of Judgment, and would fain believe themselves exempt! The very idea that the world is fraught with injustice and inequity, and that such a condition aggravates most mankind, ought to cause everyone to consider the awful reality of the final Day of Judgment!

This judgment will be according to the absolute justice of God; there will
be no grace or mercy here—only Divine justice meted out to every
unconverted person according to his or her works and just desserts (Rom.
6:23; Rev. 20:12–13). This will be a searching judgment by the omniscient
Son of God, reaching into the analysis of every motive or inclination which
has expressed itself in every word ever having been spoken (Psa. 139:1–4;
Prov. 4:23; Eccl. 12:13–14; Matt. 12:36–37; 1 Jn. 3:15). Nothing shall be left
undone. This will be a forensic, or absolutely righteous judgment according to
law—the revealed will of God—the absolute standard of his righteousness,
which shall condemn as guilty every unconverted human being according to
his works (Rom. 2:11–16; 3:20–21; Rev. 20:12–13). The judge will be the
Lord Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God, to whom all power has been given
(Matt. 25:

He shall sit as the Mediator, the absolute sovereign Lord and King
of this universe. It is in this office that he will be the final judge of men. See
Question 75. There will be degrees of punishment for unbelievers, as there
will be degrees of reward for believers (Matt. 11:21–26; Rom. 2:11–16). See
Question 169. This will be the final judgment. There will be no “Court of
Appeal.” After this judgment, “death and hell shall be cast into the lake of
fire. This is the second death” (Rev. 20:14–15; 21:8).
Such a scene ought to fill every unconverted person with an awful sense
of dread. The face of the Sovereign Judge, the glorified Lord Jesus Christ, to
whom all judgment has been committed, will be so fearsome that “the earth
and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them” (Rev.
20:11). “The dead, small and great,” those who remained impenitent and
rebellious in their earthly lives, shall all be utterly and eternally condemned.
Pilate, before whom our Lord once stood will stand before him condemned,
as will the priests and leaders who gave him up to be crucified. Criminals of
every type will be there. The lawless and profane will be there. Politicians,
presidents, kings, conquerors, generals, dictators, philosophers, scientists,
medical doctors, educators, philanthropists—the great men of the earth—will
be there, raised from the dead and torments of hell, to stand in final judgment
and be utterly condemned forever for their personal sins and according to
331
their station in their earthly lives. Popes, priests, unconverted ministers and
many religious leaders will stand before the Son of God condemned (Matt.
7:21–23). So will stand before the awful face of the Sovereign Lord and Judge
the little people of the earth, the insignificant, the poor, the heathen, the
outcasts—all condemned by their own works and devoid of the imputed
righteousness of the Lord Jesus received by faith. Such reality ought to lead
believers to a renewed, intense sense of gratitude for the free and sovereign
grace of God which saves them from themselves and their sin, to a renewed
determination to live in obedience to God’s inscripturated Word, and to a
renewed sense of urgency in the promulgation of the gospel (1 Tim. 1:15).
Why do you believe that you will not be at this awful judgment unto
condemnation?

....................

 

[PreachTony]

Yes...like in jn 5...however in rev we see the unsaved are judged according to their works so they perish....

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
We were judged at the cross in Jesus.....he taking our punishment and turning away Divine wrath from us....

Icon, if I'm reading this correctly, you are stating our judgment occurred at the cross. But doesn't that stand in opposition to the statement that judgment comes after death (Heb 9:27)? It seems so to me as the only way we come to the cross is in this waking life.

I've always read the Great White Throne judgment as the general judgment occurring after the general resurrection, as the dead small and great (i.e.: ALL the dead) stood before the throne and were judged.

 

[convicted1]

I have always viewed Matthew 25, John 5, 1 Thessalonians 4, and Revelation 20 as different accounts of the same event...a general resurrection followed by a general judgement where both saint and sinner receive their reward...

 

[Iconoclast]

Icon, if I'm reading this correctly, you are stating our judgment occurred at the cross. But doesn't that stand in opposition to the statement that judgment comes after death (Heb 9:27)? It seems so to me as the only way we come to the cross is in this waking life.

I've always read the Great White Throne judgment as the general judgment occurring after the general resurrection, as the dead small and great (i.e.: ALL the dead) stood before the throne and were judged.

I believe all our judgement for sin was put upon Jesus. When he died we died IN HIM, When he arose we arose In Him.....it is put to our account when we are quickened.
Jesus active obedience and law keeping was as our substitute.
The unsaved have to answer for their own works and be perfect...They cannot, so they go into second death.
Did you see the link from the Baptist Catechism....with commentary...?

I believe that all God's wrath was turned away as we are covered by the blood.

It was a real propitiation for all of God's sheep wherever that are found worldwide now....not just those in Jerusalem...God so loved the world.

 

[steaver]

Believers being the object of mercy as Jesus paid their sin debt in full and made mediator and surety and propitiation, have been declared to be righteous.
The certainty of the Particular redemption makes it certain that God's wrath can no longer come upon them.
At the bema seat the extent of their glorification and service will be awarded based on what and how they handled the blessings and trials that came their way in this body.

How they handled "blessings and trials"??

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

How's does Calvinism view this seeing how it proclaims ALL good works are performed by God alone through the individual, man can only do what God makes him do? Is Jesus then judging Himself and how He performed?

 

[OldRegular]

Seeing how Calvinist claim there is no good work which shall proceed out of man except it be that God Himself does that good work Himself through that person. And seeing how Calvinist claim ALL good works were foreordained by God and people have absolutely no choice in these matters, as to whether to perform or not perform such works, what then does the Calvinist see is the purpose of the JSoC?

I looked at the passage you seem to have in mind but I see nothing about the Judgment Seat of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:9-15
9. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.
10. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13. Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
14. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Perhaps you could show me where that Judgment Seat is mentioned.

To show the context of this passage I present the following Scripture:

1 Corinthians 3:1-8
]1. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4. For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5. Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6. I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Seems to me that Paul is talking about temporal judgment and rewards!

I always thought that Jesus Christ took the judgment we deserve on the Cross!

 

[Van]

I see this thread has been sidetracked. Go figure.

Calvinist teaches "exhaustive determinism" whatsoever comes to pass was foreknown and predestined (ordained) by God. Thus God is the father of sin, and the judgment that follows the resurrection of the righteous makes no sense because we only did what God predestined and thus earned no rewards.

So rather than discuss the issue of rewards, based on the autonomous choices of believers, we debate whether the judgment seat of Christ (bema) is the same as the Great White Throne judgment. Which of course has nothing to do with the issue.

 

[OldRegular]

I believe all our judgement for sin was put upon Jesus. When he died we died IN HIM, When he arose we arose In Him.....it is put to our account when we are quickened.
Jesus active obedience and law keeping was as our substitute.
The unsaved have to answer for their own works and be perfect...They cannot, so they go into second death.
Did you see the link from the Baptist Catechism....with commentary...?

I believe that all God's wrath was turned away as we are covered by the blood.

It was a real propitiation for all of God's sheep wherever that are found worldwide now....not just those in Jerusalem...God so loved the world.

Well said! Scripture tells us:

Romans 8:14-17.
14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Can't get any better than that!

 

[steaver]

I looked at the passage you seem to have in mind but I see nothing about the Judgment Seat of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:9-15
9. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.
10. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13. Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
14. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Perhaps you could show me where that Judgment Seat is mentioned.

To show the context of this passage I present the following Scripture:

1 Corinthians 3:1-8
]1. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4. For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5. Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6. I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Seems to me that Paul is talking about temporal judgment and rewards!

I always thought that Jesus Christ took the judgment we deserve on the Cross!

Even if you do not agree with most commentaries that these two passages are speaking of one in the same (JSoC), the fact remains that Christians are judged according to their works, not a judgment of life and death, this is settled at the cross, but a judgment of performance as a Christian.

So explain how a Christian can be judged for these deeds if it be so as Calvinism teaches, that ALL good works are ALL of God working within the believer, with ZERO credit for any cooperation whatsoever given to the believer??? Does this not make the admonition given to the believer totally pointless?

There has not been any Calvinist here even come remotely near to addressing the OP question. You are all deflecting to debating judgments and times and places. Address the OP..........

 

[OldRegular]

Even if you do not agree with most commentaries that these two passages are speaking of one in the same (JSoC), the fact remains that Christians are judged according to their works, not a judgment of life and death, this is settled at the cross, but a judgment of performance as a Christian.

So explain how a Christian can be judged for these deeds if it be so as Calvinism teaches, that ALL good works are ALL of God working within the believer, with ZERO credit for any cooperation whatsoever given to the believer??? Does this not make the admonition given to the believer totally pointless?

There has not been any Calvinist here even come remotely near to addressing the OP question. You are all deflecting to debating judgments and times and places. Address the OP..........

Can't help you there. I have never claimed to be a Calvinist. In fact i reject that label!

I have addressed the OP.

I looked at the passage you seem to have in mind but I see nothing about the Judgment Seat of Jesus Christ:

Seems to me that Paul is talking about temporal judgment and rewards!

I always thought that Jesus Christ took the judgment we deserve on the Cross!

Well said! Scripture tells us:

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Can't get any better than that!

 

[Yeshua1]

Can't help you there. I have never claimed to be a Calvinist. In fact i reject that label!

I have addressed the OP.

God will be rewayding to each one of us according to just how we chose to live in this life for jesus...

Did we obey God and strive to please and serve Him on a regular basis?

Did we hit and miss?

Did we serve ourselves still more often than not?

We reap what we sowm, and God is no respector of persons, so all of us have same opportunity to hear" wekk done, my good and faithdul servant" or else"saved as if by fire"

 

[Iconoclast]

steaver

How they handled "blessings and trials"??

YES STEAVER....why is this a mystery to you?

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Good works like our salvation are ordained for us to walk in.:thumbs:

How's does Calvinism view this seeing how it proclaims ALL good works are performed by God alone through the individual,

It is easily seen here:

Deuteronomy 8 King James Version (KJV)

8 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers.

2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.

4 Thy raiment waxed not old upon thee, neither did thy foot swell, these forty years.

5 Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the Lord thy God chasteneth thee.

6 Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.

7 For the Lord thy God bringeth thee into a good land, a land of brooks of water, of fountains and depths that spring out of valleys and hills;

8 A land of wheat, and barley, and vines, and fig trees, and pomegranates; a land of oil olive, and honey;

9 A land wherein thou shalt eat bread without scarceness, thou shalt not lack any thing in it; a land whose stones are iron, and out of whose hills thou mayest dig brass.

10 When thou hast eaten and art full, then thou shalt bless the Lord thy God for the good land which he hath given thee.

11 Beware that thou forget not the Lord thy God, in not keeping his commandments, and his judgments, and his statutes, which I command thee this day:

12 Lest when thou hast eaten and art full, and hast built goodly houses, and dwelt therein;

13 And when thy herds and thy flocks multiply, and thy silver and thy gold is multiplied, and all that thou hast is multiplied;

14 Then thine heart be lifted up, and thou forget the Lord thy God, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage;

15 Who led thee through that great and terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions, and drought, where there was no water; who brought thee forth water out of the rock of flint;

16 Who fed thee in the wilderness with manna, which thy fathers knew not, that he might humble thee, and that he might prove thee, to do thee good at thy latter end;

17 And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth.

18 But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
19 And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the Lord thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.

20 As the nations which the Lord destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the Lord your God.

God gives us salvation , health and strength to be able to serve HIM and His Holy law. We are stewards of all these things....God enables we obey:wavey:

man can only do what God makes him do?

Men are responsible for any obedience...or dis obedience......you really do not understand what you are even trying to attack.

Is Jesus then judging Himself and how He performed?

Your foolish ideas lead to such a foolish post...this deserves no response.

 

[Iconoclast]

Van

I see this thread has been sidetracked. Go figure.

yes...when you jumped in, as :wavey:usual

Calvinist teaches "exhaustive determinism" whatsoever comes to pass was foreknown and predestined (ordained) by God. Thus God is the father of sin,

No cal teaches this....it is only in your mind and caricature.:thumbs:

and the judgment that follows the resurrection of the righteous makes no sense because we only did what God predestined and thus earned no rewards.

You have gone to the same confused ideas as steaver now:laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

OldRegular

Well said! Scripture tells us:

Romans 8:14-17.
14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Can't get any better than that![/QUOTE]

:thumbs::wavey::thumbs: it is simple when we just read the clear teaching of scripture.

 

[Van]

Icon is right, Calvinists say God predestines everything including sin, but God is not the author of sin. No kidding.

Calvinists have a difficult time explaining why God rewards us for our service, when our service was compelled by the predestination of God.

And the beat goes on...

 

[steaver]

God will be rewayding to each one of us according to just how we chose to live in this life for jesus...

Did we obey God and strive to please and serve Him on a regular basis?

Did we hit and miss?

Did we serve ourselves still more often than not?

We reap what we sowm, and God is no respector of persons, so all of us have same opportunity to hear" wekk done, my good and faithdul servant" or else"saved as if by fire"

I believe you claim to follow Calvinism's TULIP, No? You do realize there are no choices to be made in TULIP's theology? ALL deeds and works are performed SOLELY by God through the believer. There is no choice for the believer in the matter. So are you truly a Cal or not??

 

[steaver]

Can't help you there. I have never claimed to be a Calvinist. In fact i reject that label!

I have addressed the OP.

You may addressed it, but you haven't given a Calvinist pov explanation of how a believer gets judged when Calvinism teaches the believer has no choice but to walk in the works God has ordained for them to walk in.

 

[OldRegular]

You may addressed it, but you haven't given a Calvinist pov explanation of how a believer gets judged when Calvinism teaches the believer has no choice but to walk in the works God has ordained for them to walk in.

Sport, how can I give you a Calvinist pov, I assume that is point of view, when I tell you I am not a Calvinist. Now I do believe in the Doctrines of Grace fyi!