Judgment Seat of Christ

[Iconoclast]

Van

Icon is right

Thank you Van.

 

[steaver]

Sport, how can I give you a Calvinist pov, I assume that is point of view, when I tell you I am not a Calvinist. Now I do believe in the Doctrines of Grace fyi!

Great! I believe in the doctrines of grace as well :thumbs:, Scripture version that is...not TULIP version.

But back to the topic at hand.....

IF you believe in TULIP's version, then can you explain how the believer's works are judged when TULIP's version declares the believer has no real choice in the matter of performing any such good works?

This question is really stumping the TULIP camp thus far. They have been all over the place trying to avoid thinking about this passage of Scripture as though it doesn't exist or it doesn't matter what Paul said here to the believer about a judgment based on performance.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

IF you believe in TULIP's version, then can you explain how the believer's works are judged when TULIP's version declares the believer has no real choice in the matter of performing any such good works?

Dont get it....How can a Believer have NO CHOICE?

Since both OR & I are both "Old Schoolers" perhaps that question is best asked of Iconoclast or Rippon who are avowed Calvinist. see in our theology & practice, God only intervenes in our lives to make the sinner whole (to regenerate). He doesn't interfere in our practice of doing good works or telling another person about God. I have conversation, in varying stages with everyone I meet, unfortunately the atheists are so convinced & so millitent (sic) against God that I sometimes feel I am wasting my time. There is a RC in my office that enjoys theological debate....to an extent, but he shuts down the conversation when I touch on areas he doesn't like. And I understand that, his entire family are Irish & German Catholics, so he would be defecting to the other side. My Catholic friend however considers me a christian brother while the atheists consider me a religious nut & thus an enemy. I am an enemy to error when it comes to Christ but I need to just show them that I am different in my actions & my life style.

 

[savedbymercy]

steaver

Great! I believe in the doctrines of grace as well , Scripture version that is...not TULIP version.

I believe the Truths that the acronym TULIP sets forth are nothing short of the Gospel of God's Grace !

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

steaver



I believe the Truths that the acronym TULIP sets forth are nothing short of the Gospel of God's Grace !

I like that SXM.....now for the sake of some in here that are unclear about your statement, could you please explain in more detail? THANKS

 

[OldRegular]

Great! I believe in the doctrines of grace as well :thumbs:, Scripture version that is...not TULIP version.

But back to the topic at hand.....

IF you believe in TULIP's version, then can you explain how the believer's works are judged when TULIP's version declares the believer has no real choice in the matter of performing any such good works?

This question is really stumping the TULIP camp thus far. They have been all over the place trying to avoid thinking about this passage of Scripture as though it doesn't exist or it doesn't matter what Paul said here to the believer about a judgment based on performance.

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

Can you show me and others on this Forum where the five statements called TULIP and identified above say anything about the works of a "true believer"? I would certainly appreciate it and I expect those people on the Board who claim to be Calvinist would also like to know. I eagerly await your response!

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe you claim to follow Calvinism's TULIP, No? You do realize there are no choices to be made in TULIP's theology? ALL deeds and works are performed SOLELY by God through the believer. There is no choice for the believer in the matter. So are you truly a Cal or not??

Except that Paul commanded us to be filled on a xontinual basis with/by the Holy Spirit, and to also reckon that we have now died in Christ, been raised up, and to put on the full armor of God...

Sounds like we are indeed doing 'somethings!"

 

[OldRegular]

Great! I believe in the doctrines of grace as well :thumbs:, Scripture version that is...not TULIP version.

But back to the topic at hand.....

IF you believe in TULIP's version, then can you explain how the believer's works are judged when TULIP's version declares the believer has no real choice in the matter of performing any such good works?

This question is really stumping the TULIP camp thus far. They have been all over the place trying to avoid thinking about this passage of Scripture as though it doesn't exist or it doesn't matter what Paul said here to the believer about a judgment based on performance.

One More Time steaver!

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

Can you show me and others on this Forum where the five statements called TULIP and identified above say anything about the works of a "true believer"? I would certainly appreciate it and I expect those people on the Board who claim to be Calvinist would also like to know. I eagerly await your response!

 

[steaver]

Except that Paul commanded us to be filled on a xontinual basis with/by the Holy Spirit, and to also reckon that we have now died in Christ, been raised up, and to put on the full armor of God...

Sounds like we are indeed doing 'somethings!"

No. No. No!!!!! shouts many Calvinist I seen on here. They say ALL good works are done by God ALONE! No choices, no NOT getting them done. Nodda! I guess you guys are divided on this....

 

[steaver]

One More Time steaver!

It's your camp who claims the believer has no choice in the matter of performing good works. I'm waiting for their response the same as you are......

 

[steaver]

steaver



I believe the Truths that the acronym TULIP sets forth are nothing short of the Gospel of God's Grace !

I know you do, and I do not. We will know for sure at the JSoC which belief gets burned up. But of course for now you also believe that you are absolutely correct because the Holy Spirit made you believe it, right? But then you have Christians like me who have earnestly studied and prayed over the theology and the Spirit hasn't made me believe it. Now what?? Trying to convince me it is truth on a debate board isn't going to make it happen, not according to Calvinism, so why isn't the Holy Spirit zapping us ALL into Calvinism?? Is God divided on this issue??

 

[OldRegular]

It's your camp who claims the believer has no choice in the matter of performing good works. I'm waiting for their response the same as you are......

It is not my camp!

You made the following statement in post#38:

I believe you claim to follow Calvinism's TULIP, No? You do realize there are no choices to be made in TULIP's theology? ALL deeds and works are performed SOLELY by God through the believer. There is no choice for the believer in the matter. So are you truly a Cal or not??

You made the following statement in post #42:

Great! I believe in the doctrines of grace as well :thumbs:, Scripture version that is...not TULIP version.

But back to the topic at hand.....

IF you believe in TULIP's version, then can you explain how the believer's works are judged when TULIP's version declares the believer has no real choice in the matter of performing any such good works?

This question is really stumping the TULIP camp thus far. They have been all over the place trying to avoid thinking about this passage of Scripture as though it doesn't exist or it doesn't matter what Paul said here to the believer about a judgment based on performance.

I responded in post #46:

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

Can you show me and others on this Forum where the five statements called TULIP and identified above say anything about the works of a "true believer"? I would certainly appreciate it and I expect those people on the Board who claim to be Calvinist would also like to know. I eagerly await your response!

Now please, quit shuffling your feet, and back up your previous remarks by responding to my question:

Can you show me and others on this Forum where the five statements called TULIP and identified above say anything about the works of a "true believer"?

 

[steaver]

It is not my camp!


Can you show me and others on this Forum where the five statements called TULIP and identified above say anything about the works of a "true believer"?

Well, if it's not your camp, then you are either neutral in this debate or you agree with me that a believer does have the freewill choice to do the good works which God has before ordained or not do the works God has foreordained for them to walk in. We are awaiting an explanation of THE CAL CAMP. :tongue3:

 

[savedbymercy]

I like that SXM.....now for the sake of some in here that are unclear about your statement, could you please explain in more detail? THANKS

Yeah, I mean that the Teachings from the scriptures of mans Total depravity and or inability spiritually speaking, is foundational in setting forth why Salvation is based upon Grace !

Secondly, that Unconditional Election of Grace taught in scriptures is foundational for Salvation by Grace, Its of Grace that it should not be of Works Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Its not even possible to Preach Salvation by Grace without teaching Unconditional Election !

That the L in TULIP Limited or Particular Atonement is a foundational teaching in scripture that sets forth that Salvation is based upon Grace ! Thats why some men as enemies and unbelievers are regardless by Christ's Death, reconciled to God Rom 5:10 and others are not, they instead of being reconciled to God while enemies and unbelievers, they are already condemned Jn 3:18 and under God's wrath Jn 3:36 !

The I in Tulip, Irresistible Grace or the Effectual Call is a credit to the Grace of God in Salvation, for by it, those who are called are being saved experimentally 1 Cor 1:23-24

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

They are effectually brought into the Light of the Gospel in the face of Jesus Christ 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Thats an effectual call out of darkness and into the realm of Light !

And the P in TULIP Perseverance or Preservation in Faith is a Credit to the Grace of God in Salvation, for , for Faith in maintained in them unto the End Phil 1:6

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

They are confirmed unto the End by Christ 1 Cor 1:6-8

6 Even as the testimony of Christ[The Gospel] was confirmed in you:

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These Truths set forth the Totality of why Salvation is by Grace and of God alone, and they can be called the Gospel of God's Grace Acts 20:24

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yeah, I mean that the Teachings from the scriptures of mans Total depravity and or inability spiritually speaking, is foundational in setting forth why Salvation is based upon Grace !

Secondly, that Unconditional Election of Grace taught in scriptures is foundational for Salvation by Grace, Its of Grace that it should not be of Works Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Its not even possible to Preach Salvation by Grace without teaching Unconditional Election !

That the L in TULIP Limited or Particular Atonement is a foundational teaching in scripture that sets forth that Salvation is based upon Grace ! Thats why some men as enemies and unbelievers are regardless by Christ's Death, reconciled to God Rom 5:10 and others are not, they instead of being reconciled to God while enemies and unbelievers, they are already condemned Jn 3:18 and under God's wrath Jn 3:36 !

The I in Tulip, Irresistible Grace or the Effectual Call is a credit to the Grace of God in Salvation, for by it, those who are called are being saved experimentally 1 Cor 1:23-24

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

They are effectually brought into the Light of the Gospel in the face of Jesus Christ 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Thats an effectual call out of darkness and into the realm of Light !

And the P in TULIP Perseverance or Preservation in Faith is a Credit to the Grace of God in Salvation, for , for Faith in maintained in them unto the End Phil 1:6

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

They are confirmed unto the End by Christ 1 Cor 1:6-8

6 Even as the testimony of Christ[The Gospel] was confirmed in you:

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These Truths set forth the Totality of why Salvation is by Grace and of God alone, and they can be called the Gospel of God's Grace Acts 20:24

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

:thumbsup::wavey::applause::thumbs:

You have been reading your bible as written!

 

[OldRegular]

Well, if it's not your camp, then you are either neutral in this debate or you agree with me that a believer does have the freewill choice to do the good works which God has before ordained or not do the works God has foreordained for them to walk in. We are awaiting an explanation of THE CAL CAMP. :tongue3:

You are still shuffling your feet. You made some spurious claims.

You made the following statement in post#38:[/b]

I believe you claim to follow Calvinism's TULIP, No? You do realize there are no choices to be made in TULIP's theology? ALL deeds and works are performed SOLELY by God through the believer. There is no choice for the believer in the matter. So are you truly a Cal or not??

You made the following statement in post #42:

Great! I believe in the doctrines of grace as well :thumbs:, Scripture version that is...not TULIP version.

But back to the topic at hand.....

IF you believe in TULIP's version, then can you explain how the believer's works are judged when TULIP's version declares the believer has no real choice in the matter of performing any such good works?

This question is really stumping the TULIP camp thus far. They have been all over the place trying to avoid thinking about this passage of Scripture as though it doesn't exist or it doesn't matter what Paul said here to the believer about a judgment based on performance.

I responded in post #46:

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

Can you show me and others on this Forum where the five statements called TULIP and identified above say anything about the works of a "true believer"? I would certainly appreciate it and I expect those people on the Board who claim to be Calvinist would also like to know. I eagerly await your response!

Now please! This is not a game of dodge ball it is a debate. Just quit shuffling your feet and back up your previous remarks by responding to my question:

Can you show me and others on this Forum where the five statements called TULIP and identified above say anything about the works of a "true believer"?

 

[savedbymercy]

steaver

I know you do, and I do not.

Wow, there is only One Gospel of God's Grace, and you are telling me you dont believe its the Gospel ? Thats very serious to me !

 

[OldRegular]

Just an interesting observation. Those on this BB of Arminian persuasion hate the Acronym TULIP and believe it is the sum total of Calvinism, though Calvin had nothing to do with that Acronym. I would bet/wager that 99+% of the Arminian members of this BB are, at a minimum, "One Point Calvinists"!

 

[convicted1]

Yeah, I mean that the Teachings from the scriptures of mans Total depravity and or inability spiritually speaking, is foundational in setting forth why Salvation is based upon Grace !

Secondly, that Unconditional Election of Grace taught in scriptures is foundational for Salvation by Grace, Its of Grace that it should not be of Works Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Its not even possible to Preach Salvation by Grace without teaching Unconditional Election !

That the L in TULIP Limited or Particular Atonement is a foundational teaching in scripture that sets forth that Salvation is based upon Grace ! Thats why some men as enemies and unbelievers are regardless by Christ's Death, reconciled to God Rom 5:10 and others are not, they instead of being reconciled to God while enemies and unbelievers, they are already condemned Jn 3:18 and under God's wrath Jn 3:36 !

The I in Tulip, Irresistible Grace or the Effectual Call is a credit to the Grace of God in Salvation, for by it, those who are called are being saved experimentally 1 Cor 1:23-24

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

They are effectually brought into the Light of the Gospel in the face of Jesus Christ 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Thats an effectual call out of darkness and into the realm of Light !

And the P in TULIP Perseverance or Preservation in Faith is a Credit to the Grace of God in Salvation, for , for Faith in maintained in them unto the End Phil 1:6

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

They are confirmed unto the End by Christ 1 Cor 1:6-8

6 Even as the testimony of Christ[The Gospel] was confirmed in you:

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These Truths set forth the Totality of why Salvation is by Grace and of God alone, and they can be called the Gospel of God's Grace Acts 20:24

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

:thumbsup::thumbs::thumbs::thumbsup:

Well stated. Kudos...

 

[steaver]

Wow, there is only One Gospel of God's Grace, and you are telling me you dont believe its the Gospel ? Thats very serious to me !

I hope you are not intentionally trying to deceive the readers. That would be sinful indeed.

Here is what I actually said I do not believe....your full quote...

SBM...
"I believe the Truths that the acronym TULIP sets forth are nothing short of the Gospel of God's Grace !"

Now, did I say I didn't believe the Gospel of God's Grace? Or did I say I didn't believe TULIP was the Gospel of God's Grace?

Nice try.....