Jumping Pews

[Yeshua1]

I’m the type of guy who feels uncomfortable with people clapping hands in church. For me, I am to worship in spirit and truth – and for me clapping and shouting would be putting on a façade. (I also hate going to ball games because of the people who shout and cheer – it interrupts my enjoyment of the game). I would NEVER jump a pew, partly because I would feel foolish and partly because I’d never get back off the ground once my knees gave way. But I don’t go to church for my comfort and there are many who do worship with these displays of emotion. It would be wrong of me to judge them based on my own experience – for them to sit in silence when being moved by the Spirit may be just as much a façade. There is too much judgment on other’s personal expression of worship (and it goes both ways).

I don't mind clapping, or loud singing, but do NOT want to see holy dancing/laughing/barking etc!

 

[JonC]

I don't mind clapping, or loud singing, but do NOT want to see holy dancing/laughing/barking etc!

Barking? That reminds me, who was that guy who clucked like a chicken (the "drunk" in the spirit guy).

 

[Yeshua1]

Barking? That reminds me, who was that guy who clucked like a chicken (the "drunk" in the spirit guy).

just google "Toronto Blessing!"

Look at what is NOT of the Holy Spirit!

 

[Gina B]

Isn't praise and rejoicing an act of worship though? In the services my family attends, the teaching (where people ARE quiet and reverent) is part of the service, but prior to that, there is praise. Some of it is quiet, some of it is joyful, some of it is shouts of victory, some of it is reverential awe, all depending on what is being discussed, or what we are singing/testifying about, etc..
In other words, it seems rather silly to expect someone to sit in solemn quiet while singing about shouts of joy and victory resounding in the tents of the righteous of the Lord, while it would seem just as silly for people to jump up and down and clap their hands while we're pondering about that still, small voice inside of us.

Whatever the case, it seems wrong to suppress whatever appropriate thing is happening. A human barking is usually not appropriate in any circumstance except when playing around with a dog or teaching someone how a dog sounds. Singing and dancing is a normal response to joy. Tears can be a normal response to deep emotion, whether it is joy, sorrow, or gratefulness. We have been trained by society to suppress these emotions as wrong to show around others.
I find that odd. I can understand it in certain situations or if a person is prone to being overly dramatic, but why are people so intent on forcing other humans to suppress normal reactions to stimulation? Why is it considered improper to express those emotions? Why do they make people uncomfortable?
Maybe we'd all understand each other a lot better if we weren't so bent on propriety. LOL Good grief, there are even books written on how to read body language, that's how suppressed humans have become when it comes to acting like humans! That's....well, sad.
Think about it. When you ask someone how they are, you're pretty darn shocked if they say "I'm doing really horrible right now." You don't expect, nor do most people actually WANT, an honest answer. It makes them uncomfortable. They were really just being polite, not caring.
And I'm seeing that reflected in this thread. Nobody WANTS to see emotion. It's just not part of the Christian experience.
So say you.
Why?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Dancing for joy over winning a war is what soldiers and their commanders do. Even the most STIFF Presbyterian soldiers jump for joy when they win battles.

I never saw anyone "dancing for joy over winning" a battle or anything else in war. That's ludicrous. There is no "winning" in the first place. It is called "surviving." We come home, count the losses and commiserate with one another over them, and secretly thank God it wasn't us. I don't think you can find anyone who ever "danced for joy" in war.

 

[JonC]

I never saw anyone "dancing for joy over winning" a battle or anything else in war. That's ludicrous. There is no "winning" in the first place. It is called "surviving." We come home, count the losses and commiserate with one another over them, and secretly thank God it wasn't us. I don't think you can find anyone who ever "danced for joy" in war.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Thousand Hills]

not saying that David was doing the 'Holy Spirit moon step" there, but he was definitely getting excited/emotional in his worship!

Y1, I think I found an example of the moon step. All you Bapticostals should enjoy this. :love2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EaI0U1_IW4

 

[Berean]

We often think the Lord is with us and we're having a wonderful time in His Presence when the Amen's are being shouted; folks are jumping pews; the throwing up of hands and arms in the air; sashaying with the music; kicking up our heels; slapping each other on the back, etc.

I'm afraid this just isn't so.

On the contrary, when the Lord does make His presence known and felt during any service, this very fact will suppress all the nonsense. People and their antics will become extremely respectful, civil and the mood will become solemn. This, the result of being awestruck by the very presence of God leave no room for gymnastics.

Certainly all things should be done in decency & order But who decides what is decent and what is orderly. There are times when a display of emotion is an act of worship and there are times when reverential awe is the order of the moment. I find it difficult to applaud an act of worship. I say Amen occasionally but I have never applauded a piece of music or a sermon or statement made in the act of worship. Applause can easily be associated with the world. We applaud at a carnival or a sporting event, but I have never heard anyone say Amen when a touchdown was scored.
I have no problem with applause for a special presentation like faithfulness or an anniversary of a staff person, and I do participate in these presentations.

 

[Luke2427]

I never saw anyone "dancing for joy over winning" a battle or anything else in war. That's ludicrous. There is no "winning" in the first place. It is called "surviving." We come home, count the losses and commiserate with one another over them, and secretly thank God it wasn't us. I don't think you can find anyone who ever "danced for joy" in war.

SIGH....

MILLIONS worldwide shouted for joy and danced the night away when WWII ended.

We had parades with hundreds of thousands lining the streets shouting such that thunder was muted by their joyous uproar.

What a SILLY, SILLY, SILLY thing to say that people do not rejoice over winning a war.

That must be the silliest thing I've ever heard.

SILLY, SILLY...

 

[Luke2427]

Isn't praise and rejoicing an act of worship though? In the services my family attends, the teaching (where people ARE quiet and reverent) is part of the service, but prior to that, there is praise. Some of it is quiet, some of it is joyful, some of it is shouts of victory, some of it is reverential awe, all depending on what is being discussed, or what we are singing/testifying about, etc..
In other words, it seems rather silly to expect someone to sit in solemn quiet while singing about shouts of joy and victory resounding in the tents of the righteous of the Lord, while it would seem just as silly for people to jump up and down and clap their hands while we're pondering about that still, small voice inside of us.

Whatever the case, it seems wrong to suppress whatever appropriate thing is happening. A human barking is usually not appropriate in any circumstance except when playing around with a dog or teaching someone how a dog sounds. Singing and dancing is a normal response to joy. Tears can be a normal response to deep emotion, whether it is joy, sorrow, or gratefulness. We have been trained by society to suppress these emotions as wrong to show around others.
I find that odd. I can understand it in certain situations or if a person is prone to being overly dramatic, but why are people so intent on forcing other humans to suppress normal reactions to stimulation? Why is it considered improper to express those emotions? Why do they make people uncomfortable?
Maybe we'd all understand each other a lot better if we weren't so bent on propriety. LOL Good grief, there are even books written on how to read body language, that's how suppressed humans have become when it comes to acting like humans! That's....well, sad.
Think about it. When you ask someone how they are, you're pretty darn shocked if they say "I'm doing really horrible right now." You don't expect, nor do most people actually WANT, an honest answer. It makes them uncomfortable. They were really just being polite, not caring.
And I'm seeing that reflected in this thread. Nobody WANTS to see emotion. It's just not part of the Christian experience.
So say you.
Why?

I don't think ANYBODY on here is against emotion.

We just think that worship is a sacred thing and ought to be conducted reverently.

Weddings, done well, are beautiful reverential events- but they are filled with emotion.

Church ought to be like that.

There is a time outside of reverential worship for the people of God to come together and rejoice and party and enjoy the good blessings of God together.

But in worship, we ought to put a high premium on the appropriate way to approach the thrice holy God of the Bible.

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't think ANYBODY on here is against emotion.

We just think that worship is a sacred thing and ought to be conducted reverently.

Weddings, done well, are beautiful reverential events- but they are filled with emotion.

Church ought to be like that.

There is a time outside of reverential worship for the people of God to come together and rejoice and party and enjoy the good blessings of God together.

But in worship, we ought to put a high premium on the appropriate way to approach the thrice holy God of the Bible.

Think God is honored and loves to be worshipped and praised from the heart of His people, so can sing loudly, quiet times, fast paced/slow [aced music, just do it in spirit and in truth!

For believe he enjoys hearing the singing to Him of His saints loud or soft, IF either do it focused on Him!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

SIGH....

MILLIONS worldwide shouted for joy and danced the night away when WWII ended.

We had parades with hundreds of thousands lining the streets shouting such that thunder was muted by their joyous uproar.

What a SILLY, SILLY, SILLY thing to say that people do not rejoice over winning a war.

That must be the silliest thing I've ever heard.

SILLY, SILLY...

When you've actually been in a war, you'll understand. No one, until they actually are in combat, understands. Yes, civilians around the world rejoiced. Soldiers and sailors who had not been in combat but were anticipating being part of the invasion of Japan that was no longer necessary, they rejoiced. The guys on the front lines in either theater? Guess again.

Go ahead, tell my cousin who was at the Chosin Reservoir that he "danced and sang" when they finally outlasted the CCF's onslaught.

Tell me I was joyous the day I was told we were leaving Vietnam in 45 days.

Go ahead. Tell us.

 

[Yeshua1]

When you've actually been in a war, you'll understand. No one, until they actually are in combat, understands. Yes, civilians around the world rejoiced. Soldiers and sailors who had not been in combat but were anticipating being part of the invasion of Japan that was no longer necessary, they rejoiced. The guys on the front lines in either theater? Guess again.

Go ahead, tell my cousin who was at the Chosin Reservoir that he "danced and sang" when they finally outlasted the CCF's onslaught.

Tell me I was joyous the day I was told we were leaving Vietnam in 45 days.

Go ahead. Tell us.

Would say that the Isrealites really "whooped it up" when Egyptian army was drowned , and most of all when the Apostles saw the risen Christ!

 

[Luke2427]

Think God is honored and loves to be worshipped and praised from the heart of His people, so can sing loudly, quiet times, fast paced/slow [aced music, just do it in spirit and in truth!

For believe he enjoys hearing the singing to Him of His saints loud or soft, IF either do it focused on Him!

I does not matter what you think.

However, nobody said any thing about decibel level.

Something can be very loud and still be very reverential.

The blasting of a trumpet in worship is loud, but it is reverential.

 

[Luke2427]

When you've actually been in a war, you'll understand. No one, until they actually are in combat, understands. Yes, civilians around the world rejoiced. Soldiers and sailors who had not been in combat but were anticipating being part of the invasion of Japan that was no longer necessary, they rejoiced. The guys on the front lines in either theater? Guess again.

Go ahead, tell my cousin who was at the Chosin Reservoir that he "danced and sang" when they finally outlasted the CCF's onslaught.

Tell me I was joyous the day I was told we were leaving Vietnam in 45 days.

Go ahead. Tell us.

I know of NUMEROUS veterans who shouted for joy when WWII was won.

You don't know what you are talking about.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I know of NUMEROUS veterans who shouted for joy when WWII was won.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Yeah. I'm a vet of Vietnam, the Cold War, Grenada, the Suez, Panama and Desert Storm. What the hell do I know? :BangHead:

 

[Luke2427]

Yeah. I'm a vet of Vietnam, the Cold War, Grenada, the Suez, Panama and Desert Storm. What the hell do I know? :BangHead:

Not much if you think your experience is everybody else's experience.

 

[USN2Pulpit]

Not much if you think your experience is everybody else's experience.

Luke, my friend - be careful here and show grace. As a veteran myself, I can say that regardless of how anyone in combat reacted upon cessation of hostility, there is an emotion that cannot be described in words. Sometimes it takes years to figure it out yourself.

In a spirit of grace, let me advise you: know when to take a different approach.

 

[Revmitchell]

Luke, my friend - be careful here and show grace. As a veteran myself, I can say that regardless of how anyone in combat reacted upon cessation of hostility, there is an emotion that cannot be described in words. Sometimes it takes years to figure it out yourself.

In a spirit of grace, let me advise you: know when to take a different approach.

You are wasting your time. He has posted and made it very clear that his attack approach in posting is what changed hearts and minds. Kind of leaves God out of it but it is what it is.

 

[Luke2427]

You are wasting your time. He has posted and made it very clear that his attack approach in posting is what changed hearts and minds. Kind of leaves God out of it but it is what it is.

It's called polemics, Rev, and the Bible is full of them.

And I wasn't attacking this guy.

But what NOBODY gets to do, no matter WHAT they've been through, is silence opposition with, "You don't get to have an opinion because I ________________." (fill in the blank with whatever).

Facts are facts. Many veterans testify that they rejoiced over victory with shouting.

I have a friend who is a member on baptistboard who fought in Desert Storm who I think would testify to this.

I have buried an uncle who fought in WWIII and Korea who leaped for joy when those wars ended.

It is a silly notion to say that just because this one veteran did not rejoice over the end of conflict that no one does. And he does not get to say, "I'm a veteran!!! RESPECT ME!!! Do not contradict me in any way because... I AM A VETERAN!!"

That may work on people led mostly by their emotions.

That does not work on thinking people. And we all ought to be thinking people. And what that means is that we have to think critically of everything- even if it is not politically correct.